drjest2000
Prince
@Newfloridian - It is hard to place a precise number on the loyalist population in the colonial era. Pennsylvania and New York, for instance, were particularly strong in loyalist sentiment, yet we see that New York City and Philadelphia were both the new nation's capital before the founding of Washington, DC. From all that I have ever read from the period, the rebels represented a vociferous minority, but a minority that had considerable money and therefore the power to achieve their ambition. The whole of Vermont, for instance, was willing to go any direction that granted then colonial status/statehood.
Certainly there were less fortunate sorts that leaned in the direction of independence. But in some locations, I would put the figure as high as 90% against Independence, but it has to be said that almost everyone thought that the taxation without representation issue had to end.
On the street level, the notion of "free land" taken from the natives had very high popular appeal to the up-and-coming sort, but the more well-to-do sort who were established in the cities generally perceived an exodus of people from the cities as their financial ruin, so they were most certainly not in favour of letting anyone go stake a claim to Indian land. The British government had made treaties with the Indians and had every intention of keeping them for very sound financial reasons: Fighting a war with the Indians on the other side of the world cost rather a large sum of money. That was one of the major reasons for all the taxes that had been encumbered on the American colonies. They just could not keep their fingers out of the Indian pie. Seven or eight Indian wars later, the government in London had said something like "okay, guys, you keep causing wars that are bankrupting the motherland, so if you want protection, you're going to have to pay for it yourself and you're going to have to house and feed them too."
I won't say that the colonists acted like spoiled brats, but there was less than zealous welcome to this news that they were going to have to foot the bill for the wars they kept causing.
Meanwhile, Joe Tinker in Philadelphia or New York who was making a fortune selling food and clothing to all the teeming masses huddled in Philadelphia or New York (huddling out of fear that the Indians might kill them if they didn't huddle), saw this as a curse and a blessing. Just how he leaned on the point of independence probably ran in the same direction as his wallet.
Places like Philadelphia and New York City were dangerous for the rebels, people had a tendency to hurt them. And the Sons of Liberty in New York and Philadelphia were rather notorious for running some grave bodily harm the other direction. By most accounts, even among the rebels, the Sons of Liberty were a dangerous lot of violent men who used the "cause" as an excuse to get drunk and hurt people. No matter how you turn it, it was far from the squeaky clean version that appears in American History text books you find in American schools, which generally reads something like "and one day, they all agreed that they were tired of being mistreated, so they said no more" - followed by the King going all Evil Genius on them, so they did their best Chuck Norris to him, because Americans never do anything wrong, ever, promise.
I would like to say, that I am an American, I like being an American, I think being an American is just dandy... but, I have no illusions about the people who started this nation of mine. Those guys, well, they got the job done, but they were no saints. And that stuff in the history books... well... mostly lies. But the victor writes history the way he sees fit.
Certainly there were less fortunate sorts that leaned in the direction of independence. But in some locations, I would put the figure as high as 90% against Independence, but it has to be said that almost everyone thought that the taxation without representation issue had to end.
On the street level, the notion of "free land" taken from the natives had very high popular appeal to the up-and-coming sort, but the more well-to-do sort who were established in the cities generally perceived an exodus of people from the cities as their financial ruin, so they were most certainly not in favour of letting anyone go stake a claim to Indian land. The British government had made treaties with the Indians and had every intention of keeping them for very sound financial reasons: Fighting a war with the Indians on the other side of the world cost rather a large sum of money. That was one of the major reasons for all the taxes that had been encumbered on the American colonies. They just could not keep their fingers out of the Indian pie. Seven or eight Indian wars later, the government in London had said something like "okay, guys, you keep causing wars that are bankrupting the motherland, so if you want protection, you're going to have to pay for it yourself and you're going to have to house and feed them too."
I won't say that the colonists acted like spoiled brats, but there was less than zealous welcome to this news that they were going to have to foot the bill for the wars they kept causing.
Meanwhile, Joe Tinker in Philadelphia or New York who was making a fortune selling food and clothing to all the teeming masses huddled in Philadelphia or New York (huddling out of fear that the Indians might kill them if they didn't huddle), saw this as a curse and a blessing. Just how he leaned on the point of independence probably ran in the same direction as his wallet.
Places like Philadelphia and New York City were dangerous for the rebels, people had a tendency to hurt them. And the Sons of Liberty in New York and Philadelphia were rather notorious for running some grave bodily harm the other direction. By most accounts, even among the rebels, the Sons of Liberty were a dangerous lot of violent men who used the "cause" as an excuse to get drunk and hurt people. No matter how you turn it, it was far from the squeaky clean version that appears in American History text books you find in American schools, which generally reads something like "and one day, they all agreed that they were tired of being mistreated, so they said no more" - followed by the King going all Evil Genius on them, so they did their best Chuck Norris to him, because Americans never do anything wrong, ever, promise.
I would like to say, that I am an American, I like being an American, I think being an American is just dandy... but, I have no illusions about the people who started this nation of mine. Those guys, well, they got the job done, but they were no saints. And that stuff in the history books... well... mostly lies. But the victor writes history the way he sees fit.