The Condor
On an excellent adventure
Hmm, Exavier have you tested the new techs to see if you can still make it to the end of the tech tree with time?
[MOD] Composite Mod by Exavier
- Thread starter Exavier
- Start date
Exavier
Destroyer of Worlds
Yes Because i am using the turn scale of Marathon which is 1.5 times longer then the original Epic speed i was using 
But thats only if you play on my modified Epic... anything else is hit or miss
But thats only if you play on my modified Epic... anything else is hit or miss
The Condor
On an excellent adventure
Super well I never play with time so its ok.
Fanatic Demon
Student in Wizardry
Exavier said:@Fanatic Demon - Ideas are always welcome
Right now you get Catapult and who knows what tech, Cannon with Gunpowerde/Engineering, Artillery with well Artillery, Howitzer with Computers (i think). I could probobly add in another artillary unit but its not high on the list atm as the tech tree is a little crowded.
I understand your concern, to solve the problem of crowded technology, you can solve the the problem by use combination of existing technologies.
By giving the bombard the technology requirement of Engineering + Gunpowder and the Cannons the technology requirement of Steal + Replaceable parts, you put enough time distance between to make an impact. They also become much more historically correct because in contrast what you currently setup, cannons became more powerful as technology improved, which is the other way around currently in your mod.
Cannon where actually invented before muskets, because the are easier to manufacture. The early primitive cannon where very crudely made and where often more a danger to the crew, that to the enemy. Back then, they didn't have very high quality Steal, therefore these cannons had to be build very heavy to be able to survive a single shot. They where basically only usefull for bombardment at sieges while their more modern version were also very effective at point blank range and much more maneuverable
Also note that their is a long time between their historical appearance. The first cannon appears arraund 1500, while the modern cannons appeared around 1700 (after better metallurgy technology became available). In other words, 200 years
which is a very long time. THe next artiley revolution appeard around 1900 when artilery appeard (another 200 years).Also from a gameplay point of view it is advised to have two types of cannons. While early cannons faced musket man as like targets defending cities. Modern Cannon face rifleman which are much more powerful. Using the old setting, when no differentiation is made, the primitive artillery is no match for the rifleman in a head to head battle, only to be used a suicide fodder.
Exavier
Destroyer of Worlds
While I agree for the most part that it can be made more historically accurate its honestly not high on the priorities atm. I may do it but I am working on my complete rewrite for the tech tree atm. More then likly when thats done there will be plenty of room for a cpl more version of artillary as I added a WW1/WW2 era to the game for the next release (only 6 techs but it was my first test at getting new techs in the game... now i need to do planning).
Needless to say from Steam Power on is going to be rewritten so the tech flow makes more sence and there is more space, tech, and time to add new stuff later when the SDK comeso ut and new models become popular
Needless to say from Steam Power on is going to be rewritten so the tech flow makes more sence and there is more space, tech, and time to add new stuff later when the SDK comeso ut and new models become popular
Exavier
Destroyer of Worlds
s3d said:
Ok will look into it... I might have to see if there is a new version of that mod out that fixes that.
Roland Johansen
Deity
I've been following this thread since the moment it only consisted of a few posts and I must say that I like the way this mod is developing and the enthousiam with which you update it with new ideas. I'm probably going to play it when I've seen enough of the original game and when this mod is in some stable final version (if you are ever satisfied 
). It looks really good already (from all what I've read).
The newest addition is going to add units from the WWI-WWII era. I don't exactly know what you're planning, but I wouldn't very much like a naming convention of the sorts WWII battleship, WWII destroyer, WWII submarine, etc. It's always difficult to come up with great names for the units, but there are some experts on this forum which can give you that many details of naval development that you wished you'd never asked...
I'm not one of the experts in naval history, but what you could do for a surface ships upgrade path would be something along the line
Frigate - > Ship of the Line - > Iron (hull) frigate - > Destroyer -> Missile Destroyer
Seperate line: ironclad - > dreadnought - > battleship
Separate line: ironclad - > Cruiser - > Aegis cruiser
(The ironclad has 2 upgrade paths which makes it look more complicated than it really is)
Destroyer, battleship and cruiser would in this case be the WWII units.
The Dreadnought is a very heavy battleship type unit, one of the major steps in development of the battleship type ships which became ever more heavily armored and got ever bigger guns. It is a unit from the early 20-th century (1905-1910).
The ironclad and the iron hulled frigate are also from the same time period (1860). This is a picture from an ironclad and this is a picture from an iron hulled frigate. The Iron hulled frigate was faster, ocean going but weaker in defence. The rest of the ship types are probably better known. The aegis cruiser and the missle destroyer would be modern ships.
Now, I understand that this is a very large number of ships and maybe too much to add all at once for this mod. But there are some advantages to creating a technology path with many units. You can let the individual steps between the various units be small so that an opponent who is one technology ahead of you will not automatically destroy you and you cannot easily destroy an enemy who is one technology behind. But if someone is 2 or 3 steps behind in technology, then he's a goner because a few smaller steps in development can mean a huge step in strength.
So a Ship of the Line can lose to a Frigate, but an Iron hull frigate will very very seldomnly lose to a frigate and a loss from a destroyer to a frigate is almost unthinkable. This way the balance between units can be better fine tuned. It's quite a lot of work to do this for all the units througout history, but there are a lot of experts for each time period on this forum.
Good luck with the development of this mod and may it become better with each version!
). It looks really good already (from all what I've read). The newest addition is going to add units from the WWI-WWII era. I don't exactly know what you're planning, but I wouldn't very much like a naming convention of the sorts WWII battleship, WWII destroyer, WWII submarine, etc. It's always difficult to come up with great names for the units, but there are some experts on this forum which can give you that many details of naval development that you wished you'd never asked...
I'm not one of the experts in naval history, but what you could do for a surface ships upgrade path would be something along the line
Frigate - > Ship of the Line - > Iron (hull) frigate - > Destroyer -> Missile Destroyer
Seperate line: ironclad - > dreadnought - > battleship
Separate line: ironclad - > Cruiser - > Aegis cruiser
(The ironclad has 2 upgrade paths which makes it look more complicated than it really is)
Destroyer, battleship and cruiser would in this case be the WWII units.
The Dreadnought is a very heavy battleship type unit, one of the major steps in development of the battleship type ships which became ever more heavily armored and got ever bigger guns. It is a unit from the early 20-th century (1905-1910).
The ironclad and the iron hulled frigate are also from the same time period (1860). This is a picture from an ironclad and this is a picture from an iron hulled frigate. The Iron hulled frigate was faster, ocean going but weaker in defence. The rest of the ship types are probably better known. The aegis cruiser and the missle destroyer would be modern ships.
Now, I understand that this is a very large number of ships and maybe too much to add all at once for this mod. But there are some advantages to creating a technology path with many units. You can let the individual steps between the various units be small so that an opponent who is one technology ahead of you will not automatically destroy you and you cannot easily destroy an enemy who is one technology behind. But if someone is 2 or 3 steps behind in technology, then he's a goner because a few smaller steps in development can mean a huge step in strength.
So a Ship of the Line can lose to a Frigate, but an Iron hull frigate will very very seldomnly lose to a frigate and a loss from a destroyer to a frigate is almost unthinkable. This way the balance between units can be better fine tuned. It's quite a lot of work to do this for all the units througout history, but there are a lot of experts for each time period on this forum.
Good luck with the development of this mod and may it become better with each version!
Exavier
Destroyer of Worlds
@Roland Johansen - hehe nice suggestions. I agree i wouldn't want to play with a unit called WW2 Destroyer. those are just temp names I used when i made the screens as I don't do descriptions at the same rate that i do the programming. So i end up playing catch up just before a release lol.
The WW1-WW2 era is actually more of a test. I am going to release it in the next version but it probobly won't stick around very long as it is. Its the first time I have edited the tech tree. Whats going to happen over the next few updates though is I plan to rewrite the entire tech tree from Steam Power to Future Tech. So its more organized and follows a better timeline (steam power is about the limit of my historical knowledge without doing 2 much research). This expanded tech tree will allow me to put in more units while keeping the same unit per age that you get throughout the game.
Whats funny is you almost hit the exact upgrade paths I used on the head. The only thing i didn't do is make multiple paths atm. That might actually wait till the update after this one as I have alot to do already. I don't think i am going to give the Aegis Cruiser an update path. Mainly because in my mind that ship represents the pinicle of Naval Technology (at least ingame) and If you want it your gona have to build it
This release is going to get a special tag as a milestone. Basicly i am tryign to make sure everything works, everything is caught up, languages translated (even if rough). Basicly what you would call a stable version even if it gets updated within a week later... And I won't be saticfied as long as I keep getting good suggestions and have an interest in Civ4 lol
The only thing i am really missing is a good 2D Graphics editor (not program, person). I am horrible at texturing and button creation so I need some serious help with that area if anyone knows someone who wants a job
The WW1-WW2 era is actually more of a test. I am going to release it in the next version but it probobly won't stick around very long as it is. Its the first time I have edited the tech tree. Whats going to happen over the next few updates though is I plan to rewrite the entire tech tree from Steam Power to Future Tech. So its more organized and follows a better timeline (steam power is about the limit of my historical knowledge without doing 2 much research). This expanded tech tree will allow me to put in more units while keeping the same unit per age that you get throughout the game.
Whats funny is you almost hit the exact upgrade paths I used on the head. The only thing i didn't do is make multiple paths atm. That might actually wait till the update after this one as I have alot to do already. I don't think i am going to give the Aegis Cruiser an update path. Mainly because in my mind that ship represents the pinicle of Naval Technology (at least ingame) and If you want it your gona have to build it
This release is going to get a special tag as a milestone. Basicly i am tryign to make sure everything works, everything is caught up, languages translated (even if rough). Basicly what you would call a stable version even if it gets updated within a week later... And I won't be saticfied as long as I keep getting good suggestions and have an interest in Civ4 lol
The only thing i am really missing is a good 2D Graphics editor (not program, person). I am horrible at texturing and button creation so I need some serious help with that area if anyone knows someone who wants a job
hi exavier!
maybe you can help me - im trying to insert a civ into a mod - sevo mod - and im only able to enter 2 civs and then if i put 3 - i have problem with the icon of the eader head on the civilization choosing screen -with the little heads where you can choose whicth leader you decide.. im getting no picture or a picture of some other nation.. get me?
plz if you can help me...
by the way - cant wait for your next version...
maybe you can help me - im trying to insert a civ into a mod - sevo mod - and im only able to enter 2 civs and then if i put 3 - i have problem with the icon of the eader head on the civilization choosing screen -with the little heads where you can choose whicth leader you decide.. im getting no picture or a picture of some other nation.. get me?
plz if you can help me...
by the way - cant wait for your next version...
Exavier
Destroyer of Worlds
Sevo's combination mod has alot of stuff in it that i am not familure with. It would probobly be easier to ask him for help as I don't know what files he has modified.
New civilizations modify several files:
-CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml
-CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml
-CIV4ArtDefines_Civilization.xml
-CIV4ColorVals.xml
-CIV4PlayerColorInfos.xml
plus half a dozen \Text\ files.
You pretty much have to be carful what you add/overwrite or it failes to load properly.
New civilizations modify several files:
-CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml
-CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml
-CIV4ArtDefines_Civilization.xml
-CIV4ColorVals.xml
-CIV4PlayerColorInfos.xml
plus half a dozen \Text\ files.
You pretty much have to be carful what you add/overwrite or it failes to load properly.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
It's a great mod... nice work!
One question... I'm curious as to why you removed the Destroyer's ability to see subs? Most destroyers are ASW platforms...
I'd also like to see a mod to subs that make them particularly lethal to carriers, like they are in the real world. (this is why the destroyers are there)
EDIT: err...my bad. I guess the Frigate is mostly used for ASW nowadays... moreso than the DDs... so maybe frigates could get a bonus vs subs?
One question... I'm curious as to why you removed the Destroyer's ability to see subs? Most destroyers are ASW platforms...
I'd also like to see a mod to subs that make them particularly lethal to carriers, like they are in the real world. (this is why the destroyers are there)
EDIT: err...my bad. I guess the Frigate is mostly used for ASW nowadays... moreso than the DDs... so maybe frigates could get a bonus vs subs?
I think catapults, with ability to withdraw and splash damage too strong on the open terrain. Not realistic at all - they were never big damage dealers in the open terrain battles. May be their strength should be reduced considerably and city-attack bonus given instead.
Mauritania
Warlord
What, no Erina Won leader for Nergal Industries. They should have Aestivalis as an unique unit surely!!!
Silica_Pathways
King
Nice mod, only too bad that the sevopedia doesn't work 
Exavier
Destroyer of Worlds
@Merum - think i answered this in length before but thats ok. I removed the ability for Destroyers to see subs because the DD was the Most used ship in the game (Destroyer or Battleship, take your pick). I wanted submarines to be a little more powerful so I removed it and gave the ability to the Aegis Cruiser.
As a boost though I made it so every Aircraft can see Submarines with recon as a spotter plane or just stationed. So it kinda makes up for it but makes you use tactics a little bit. The Destroyer is still the Sub Killer (or it should be I might have to tweak its bonuses as i lack feedback) it just needs a little help from its airborn friends to see see them.
Also this was based off the Tech tree discovery rate as well. You discovered Destroyers Before Submarines... SO why shoud a DD be able to see a ship type that your country has never heard of before
@s3d - I will have to take a closer look at that. The thing is that if i have to do it to catapults i will probobly have to do it to all the rest of the artillary pieces.
@Mauritania - HAHA I was wondering if anyone would catch this. Trust me if I could add an Aestivalis in as my UU I would but I am sure it would be overpowered. as for the Leader I could do it very easily but its my personal Civ so I used my name
@Crash757 - Yea I caught that about 2 days after release when i was playing with the tech tree lol. It should be fixed for the next version. My appologies.
As a boost though I made it so every Aircraft can see Submarines with recon as a spotter plane or just stationed. So it kinda makes up for it but makes you use tactics a little bit. The Destroyer is still the Sub Killer (or it should be I might have to tweak its bonuses as i lack feedback) it just needs a little help from its airborn friends to see see them.
Also this was based off the Tech tree discovery rate as well. You discovered Destroyers Before Submarines... SO why shoud a DD be able to see a ship type that your country has never heard of before
@s3d - I will have to take a closer look at that. The thing is that if i have to do it to catapults i will probobly have to do it to all the rest of the artillary pieces.
@Mauritania - HAHA I was wondering if anyone would catch this. Trust me if I could add an Aestivalis in as my UU I would but I am sure it would be overpowered. as for the Leader I could do it very easily but its my personal Civ so I used my name
@Crash757 - Yea I caught that about 2 days after release when i was playing with the tech tree lol. It should be fixed for the next version. My appologies.
Exavier
Destroyer of Worlds
@keldath - Not anything 2 special. though there are 2 things in the mods ini file that need to be set.
--=Composite Mod v1.5.ini=--
SinglePlayerOnly = 0
AllowPublicMaps = 1
that will alow MP games with the mod as well as allow randomly generated and player created maps to be used. not just maps tied specificly to the mod.
On top of that you have to make sure its balanced so that noone can be overpowered with just a single unit. As well as make sure any python scripting you have is stable so that you don't get clitches that can cause OOS (out of sync) errors.
And finally you have to make sure everyone who wants to play it has to have it for the MP game to function
--=Composite Mod v1.5.ini=--
SinglePlayerOnly = 0
AllowPublicMaps = 1
that will alow MP games with the mod as well as allow randomly generated and player created maps to be used. not just maps tied specificly to the mod.
On top of that you have to make sure its balanced so that noone can be overpowered with just a single unit. As well as make sure any python scripting you have is stable so that you don't get clitches that can cause OOS (out of sync) errors.
And finally you have to make sure everyone who wants to play it has to have it for the MP game to function
KGrevstad
Warlord
Exavier said:
Does this mean that Python exceptions will cause OOS errors? Do you use Stone-D's UnitXP or Cultural Decay, because these do throw exceptions, although they are harmless.
--Kristine
exavier
mmm.... i see,
i combined a mod -sevo mod +next level mod , and i teste it on mp -
the game was ok for 160 turns then -it crashed for no reason.
anytime i tried to load the game - in that same turn - the game crashed.
i have no idea why.
i keep notice that both players have the same version.
i think ill modify your mod with the next level, cause you did far better work...
and ill update it manually witth every new version.
thanks - offcource - when ill finnish - ill give my update
mmm.... i see,
i combined a mod -sevo mod +next level mod , and i teste it on mp -
the game was ok for 160 turns then -it crashed for no reason.
anytime i tried to load the game - in that same turn - the game crashed.
i have no idea why.
i keep notice that both players have the same version.
i think ill modify your mod with the next level, cause you did far better work...
and ill update it manually witth every new version.
thanks - offcource - when ill finnish - ill give my update
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