[MOD] Composite Mod by Exavier

@exavier hi

well - up unil now i didnt merged the pyton files - i simply didnt thought of that...
could this be a reason for why a game crashed on a multi player game for no reason?
i now merge your oyton files with random events, and i saw a lot of multiplayer refference, made by you, so i just copied what was missing from random events, i hope i did it right.
think it will be ok?
you got any tips for merging pyton files?
 
Hi Exavier

Your plans and updates sound really good. Thanks for the hard work. Remember to sleep for a change. I think we can wait few more days. :)
 
Ships seldom have over 10 XP though in earlier eras...since there's not much reason to build them :(

We need shore bombardment and blockading! Or at least blockading...a ship in enemy city radius negates Harbor bonueses (+50% trade). THAT would make a large navy useful, you could cripple a coastal civ's economy quite easily (not to mention starve their cities).

Hmm...I think I know how to do this.

The problem, of course, is that like all scripted functions the AI doesn't know how to use them (like improved forts) :undecide:

Hopefully that'll be rectifiable soon.
 
@keldath - Um actually you might wana wait till after the next update to play with the python in my files :P

Believe it or not I never did convert the full thing over to v1.52 compatability. I cheated as I was in a hurry. I changed what i needed to to make it stable but not everything else they added into the file. This has been corrected for the next release.

@Mikkeman - Sleep is for the weak... I don't get sleep during the week so why sleep on the weekend? besides I w ant to get this released so i can finish rewriting the entire tech tree :P

@Thalassicus - true. I guess for now i will leave the upgrade paths.
 
hi exavier
well whatever you did to your pyton files - the are good for mp games...
so meanwhile im updating you mod with all sorts of new mods that i like.

i have a nice idea -
maybe every civilization could have two unique units - one for the early stages and one in the late stages, instead of just adding normal units,

you said you wnated to wait with adding civs..so this can be very nice.
 
hey exavier again....

do you think maybe you could asist me in merging the pyton files?
is a five minutes work... or maybe even just go though what i merged to see if i did something wrong?

you see, my main intention in doing this mods, is for multiplayer game..as you prbablly noticed by now hehe.. and i really wont wan to "screw" anything in these files...

thanks anyway buddy.
 
This is a great mod Exavier. I was wondering if maybe you would add homegrown's simple clock mod, and Snaitf's show attitude mod. These are small and easy to add but very useful - first thing I did after installing your mod was to add them cause at this point I just can't play without them. :)

Also, you probably already included this in your next update but I just wanted to mention that Sevo's civilopedia was update with a small bug fix.

Anyway, again great job. :goodjob:
 
@keldath - PM me your e-mail address and I will send you the python files out of v1.6 that way you have the updated ones to work with.

@Rabbit, White - Actually i been looking at those 2 mods and even downloaded them for possible additions... I just keep forgeting to put them in :P
 
I didn't reply to your reply for some time, because I was busy upgrading my computer. Actually, it was more replacing my old one by a new one. I see that there has been some talking on the upgrading of units in this thread. I would like to add my 2 cents, since I now have some pracitical experience with it.

Most upgrading of units in this game actually makes no sense, it is just that the more recent units are more detailed in our minds so we have more problems with the concept of upgrading. Imagine a general in the ancient days:


General: Charioteers, we have made some breakthroughs in combat tactics and now we think it is best for you to start shooting arrows from the back of of a horse. Instead of charging past enemy soldiers in your scythed chariots, you're now going to sit on top of your horse and stay clear of the enemy while destroying him with volleys of arrows.

One of the more brave charioteers: Uh, but sir, our horses aren't strong enough to carry soldiers and none of us have ever fired a bow.

General: Details, details, don't bother me with these stupid details. Go do your job or I'll crucify you and your family.

Not so brave charioteer (or maybe horse archer): uh.. YES SIR!


I view upgrading as a game element that allows you to keep a part of your army that is used for a certain type of job on the battlefield to remain updated. It allows you to use two resources to modernize your army. Hammers to build more units (armies tend to get larger throughout the game) and rebuild your losses and money to modernize your army. In an abstract way it is pretty accurate. If you look at the details of some of the upgrades, then it becomes totally rediculous. (the whole distinction between the various forms of production (hammers, gold, science, culture) is actually a bit artificial)

I like upgrading, because it makes money important in getting and keeping a good army. So banks and marketplaces and grocers keep their worth. Also the AI gets discounts for upgrading (and pays more in some other categories at Noble level), which allows them to be competitive without being able to plan ahead like a human player can. If an AI didn't plan ahead, it can still upgrade its army quickly in the event of a war.

On the various upgrade paths in my previous post:
That was actually mostly from a mod I created for Civ3. In that game, I wanted to create a poor mans navy and a rich mans navy. The civilization without any resources like oil and aluminium, would still be able to build the poor mans navy (destroyer - > missile destroyer), while the civilization with resources could build the better ships (cruiser - > aegis cruiser). Of course it is not really realistic that a civilization without resources could build a modern navy, but on the other hand it is also not realistic that a modern country has no access at all to modern resources. It also allows a civilization without resources to still build some ships which is good for gameplay in my opinion. (the resourceless versus resource needing units idea was present in the whole mod no only ships)

In civ4, there are other options to allow resourceless civilizations to build modern units. You could create a system where owning a resource would only give a significant production bonus (units would have a higher basic production cost, but would become cheaper with some resources), just like the production bonusses for some wonders with stone, marble, copper, etc. This would create a system where civilizations with cheap access to many diffirent resources would be able to create their army for a much lower cost then the resourceless civilization (assume, they get them from the black market or in too low quantities to be represented by a single resource in the game). Economically this system seems quite realistic to me and I also don't expect the AI to have problems with it.

Ok, a long post, what do you think about all this?
 
@Roland Johansen - hehe long post :P

Well that discussions wasn't about upgrade paths in general... It was specificly the transition from a Wooden Sail Driven ships to the Modern Steel Behemoths with armor and artillary :)

You can't really walk up to the captain of a wooden ship and say "Your being upgraded to that destroyer over there now take it out an be successful in combat"... you actually be lucky if they manage to get the engines started :)

By cutting off the upgrade and forcing you to start naval construction from ground 1 in the Steel ship eras it simulates the construction and training of the ships and crew. imo

Also i have seen some off the changes to resorces other have made and personally don't like the idea. Mainly because its a tactical game so you should have to control the resorces you use. Or trade with others to get it. Making it just a bonus to production just means its not needed at all to build it... "I discovered Rocketry and Fission, lets build nukes... but sir we don't have uranium... so we don't need it, that just speeds up the construction prossess"... doesn't have a very good ring to it :P
 
Exavier said:
@Roland Johansen - hehe long post :P

Well that discussions wasn't about upgrade paths in general... It was specificly the transition from a Wooden Sail Driven ships to the Modern Steel Behemoths with armor and artillary :)

You can't really walk up to the captain of a wooden ship and say "Your being upgraded to that destroyer over there now take it out an be successful in combat"... you actually be lucky if they manage to get the engines started :)

By cutting off the upgrade and forcing you to start naval construction from ground 1 in the Steel ship eras it simulates the construction and training of the ships and crew. imo
Click to expand...

The change from charioteers to horse archers in my example is probably just as large, just longer ago and thus somewhat more difficult to imagine. On the other hand, no crew from frigates or ships of the line were ever transfered to modern destroyers. The transition was quite slow (although a lot faster than in the ages before that time). First ships were created that had metal hulls (partly or completely) and then ships with a completely iron framework. With the improvement in metallurgy and ballistics, the cannons got bigger and bigger and the iron framework could also carry these bigger and bigger guns. I don't think that any of the admirals in that time thought about firing all of his sailors because every other guy would be just as capable.

On the other hand, the whole idea of experience is a bit strange in Civ4. If you look at the time scale, then every unit in the ancient age should lose all of its experience each turn since it can't be the same soldiers. The ones from one turn earlier are already dead from natural causes or at least too old to fight in the military. In modern times, a soldier could serve maybe 10-15 turns at most and then his experience would be gone.
Experience isn't in this game for a realism kind of thing, but just for fun. It's actually quite difficult to get some realism in Civ4 because of the discrepancy between speed in war and the speed with which civilizations develop, but I digress.

Exavier said:
Also i have seen some off the changes to resorces other have made and personally don't like the idea. Mainly because its a tactical game so you should have to control the resorces you use. Or trade with others to get it. Making it just a bonus to production just means its not needed at all to build it... "I discovered Rocketry and Fission, lets build nukes... but sir we don't have uranium... so we don't need it, that just speeds up the construction prossess"... doesn't have a very good ring to it :P
Click to expand...

The people who like these changes are probably not thinking about resources in the have or have not way. Most civilizations in the real world have access to all of the resources (uranium is an exception), just not all civilizations have equal access to all of these resources. They wan't to simulate that by assuming that civilizations that have access to a certain resource have this resource in ample amounts while civilizations that do not have these resources in the game would be the civilizations that have shortages in that area. If you look at it this way, the construction bonuses are not that weird. It's just how you look at it. Different models can be defended.

I'm curious how this mod will develop further. Of course it will not be the perfect mod for me, because everyone (including me) has some particular ideas. But it looks mighty fine.
 
@Roland Johansen - you do have a point... maybe i am just over analysing things again (happens alot).

The other point is only partially true though... Because of the timelines this game follows it makes it hard but in the Ancient Eras not every civ had the ability to mine just anywhere (like they do nowadays, or at least it seems like it). The resorce placements could be considered high volumn easy to access resorces. Aftery ou hit the industrial eras then I would have to agree.

The problem comes with not being able to make this transition without some very creative coding... I'll do some research on it and see what I can come up with :)
 
Roland Johansen said:
The people who like these changes are probably not thinking about resources in the have or have not way. Most civilizations in the real world have access to all of the resources (uranium is an exception), just not all civilizations have equal access to all of these resources. They wan't to simulate that by assuming that civilizations that have access to a certain resource have this resource in ample amounts while civilizations that do not have these resources in the game would be the civilizations that have shortages in that area. If you look at it this way, the construction bonuses are not that weird. It's just how you look at it. Different models can be defended.
Click to expand...
Actually, the best way to impliment that would be just with defensive units. The more defensive a unit is the fewer resources it requires, for example:

Two resources - Very offense-oriented units, such as Knights and Tanks
One resource - Offensive units like Horsemen, Swordsmen, and Macemen
One of two alternates - Mixed units like Axemen and modern ships
No resources - Defensive units like Archers, Longbows, Riflemen and Mech Infantry

To add resources like rubber (which is the most popular on the other thread) it could simply be a +50% resource for certain units rather than a full requirement. Requiring a resource to defend yourself usually isn't a good idea after all (which was in Civ III). If you have access to a large supply of the resource through trade or your own territory, though, you'll be able to build more units at more locations in the same timeframe. Since you have a fixed number of production locations in Civ (cities) this would be represented by faster production speed per location. It seems pretty reasonable to me, and there's not much of another way to add more resources to the game when desired by a modder :)

I'm pretty happy with the current tradeable resources in the game: they're the really important ones (iron, oil, uranium). Other resources would be interesting to see as tile bonuses, though, like Tobacco was. It'd spice up the terrain.
 
UPDATE v1.6

I have decided to release v1.6 early as I need a slight break from starting at code lol... So here it is.

Changes/fixes
-Updated Sevo's Pedia Mod to fix some bugs
-Ner version of the Foreign Advisor Mod incorporated
-Tech COnquest Incorporated (you get a % of a tech from opponent when capturing a city)
-AI Opinions Mod by Snaif added (shows their attatudes to you by their name)
-Simple Clock Mod added, shows the clock up by the date (takes 15sec to initialize after game start)
-Added 6 new techs for a WW2 Era (they need new graphics i know)
-Added 4 new ships for WW2 era (Amphibious Assault Craft (transport), Cruiser (destroyer), Dreadnaught (Battleship), U-Boat.
-Added Patriot Mobile AA System using models released by patch v1.52
-Changed Howitzer to Artillary model that came with v1.52
-Pedia descriptions on most of the new units added.
-Added the Proper Score Graph Mod
-Reconfigured my Discription XML Files to helpreduce overall size of the mod.


I am sure I am missing some things as I changed alot and fought with python for a while :P

Things delayed for next version (sorry but i had to)
-Mylons Cultural System
-Translations for Multi-language (got sick of fiddleing with discriptions after reconfiguring my xml files)

Also no that the WW2 ships (Cruiser and Dreadnaught) may be changed at a later date... I just used those names so they are different than the Modern Stuff. Will make it more accurate later.

Enjoy :D
 
If you're considering this, then you should also realize the flexibility of what you can do. You could make some resource required like it is now (uranium for nuclear weapons is a good example), while other resources give bonuses of various sizes to certain units. Knights need a lot of iron for their armor and their swords/lances/etc and also need good horses, but a maceman only needs a very small amount of iron (leather armor so only a small piece of metal for the mace), so knights are very expensive without iron and horses but get large bonuses from both resources (example: cost 200, + 100% production from iron, + 50% production from horses), while maceman are quite cheap and get a moderate bonus from iron (example: cost 90, + 25% production from iron). Such a thing could also make the knight somewhat rare on the battlefield as only the civilizations with both resources will likely build them in quantity. Of course all of this must be balanced and that can become quite tricky.

Another example could be in the comparison between iron and copper. You could create an iron swordsman and a bronze swordsman where the iron swordsman gets a production bonus from iron and is a little stronger then the bronze swordsman who gets a bonus from copper. Or you could create only one type of swordsman which get a bigger production bonus from iron than he gets from copper. The idea being that with iron you could build more swordsman to abstractly symbolize the superiority of iron over copper (for creating weapons).

Another idea would be that a building like a forge would give some extra production bonuses to units that require iron or copper. This way the production bonus from this building does not become meaningless when building certain units.

There are actually a lot of methods to do this and each one has its merits. You can keep modding a long time (if you want to of course). I must admit that I don't know how much of this is actually possible to mod in the game. I'm guessing the above is possible with some modding of python files, but maybe somebody first has to find out how to do such a thing.

Good luck with any further development!:goodjob:

edit: cross posted. Good to see another update. You're working very hard on this mod.
 
Great job Exavier:clap::goodjob:!. It really looks nice (especially the clock:eek:)!
 
Problem solved....
 
Ok Guys sorry bout that... last second change to make the SAM Infantry Upgrade to the Patriot SAM system didn't get placed in the right spot causing the UnitInfos file to fail to load...

I got it fixed and updated the links.
 
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