[MOD] Composite Mod by Exavier

@EVERYONE - Looks like in order to fix my PC under warentees they want to send my Laptop off to Toshiba for 2-3 freaking weeks!!!

I told them they can shove their warentees up their :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: ... Looks like I have a problem... There is a shop that can do it but i need to come up with the cash first :rolleyes:
 
This is probably only available with the SDK -- do you know if aircraft can be given the capability to see subs with their Recon mission? I think giving the unit itself the see-invisibility category of submarines would probably be a passive ability.
 
Thalassicus said:
This is probably only available with the SDK -- do you know if aircraft can be given the capability to see subs with their Recon mission? I think giving the unit itself the see-invisibility category of submarines would probably be a passive ability.

Um... I did this in my mod lol... if you give them the see subs ability it effects all sight range generated by the plane... So using recone is using the planes sight attributes to reveal the fog and thus using the See Subs ability... I did this for all fighter type aircraft :)
 
Does that reveal subs while they're sitting on the carrier though? I was wondering if it's possible for them only to reveal subs when performing an active search mission - perhaps with a limited range, or only a probability, at that. I know the latter two would require the SDK for sure.

I think detection is one of the two problems with submarines right now - the other being their method of attack. Submarines' standard attack should be a "torpedo strike" mission similar to air strike with aircraft (and interceptable by destroyers), replacing the role of aircraft for late modern naval combat -- which don't serve the same role as they did in WWII.

Neither of these is likely modifiable at all until we can modify the game code itself, but I've been mulling over modern naval combat and how it might be done.

There's been five key phases to naval warfare that I can think of: ramming, cannons, metal hulls, aircraft, and missiles. Through most of them you have the basic rock-paper-scissors classifications of capital ships, escort ships, and cheap attack craft to take on the costly capital ships. Submarines and carriers in the game are sort of hybrids.

During the period of dreadnaughts in the metal hull era, only the richest navies could build the huge, heavily armored ships, so other nations developed inexpensive, fast torpedo ships to avoid the capital ship's larger guns and deal significant damage with little risk in cost. This naturally evolved to submarine warfare later on, but in the present day submarines don't fill that role -- they're often as expensive (or sometimes more so) than the bulk of surface ships. In this era the largest threat to warships is small coastal craft (highlighted with the USS Cole attack). Most naval deployments are near the shore, so cheap attack craft armed with guns, missiles, or other weapons can pose a serious threat to expensive warships stationed nearby.

Carriers were capital ships during the aircraft era of WWII, but a different class entirely in the missile era -- relatively ineffective for ship warfare (ship-based missiles are generally better) yet highly important to defend.

The modern capital-escort-attack classifications in game for the late modern age would then be Cruisers - Destroyers - Gunboats. Carriers and Transports would fit in a separate category, as transports for air and ground forces (respectively).

Submarines, though, are a class all to themselves. They're not capital ships that need a fleet to defend them, nor escorts (can't defend other ships against missile attack), nor the poor-man's solution for taking on capital ships. They defy all attempts to fit them into a simple rock-paper-scissors classification! :lol:

So I was thinking (with the SDK) Submarines could replace the figher's anti-ship role in the late modern age. WWII-era Fighters can Air Strike ships -- Submarines would have a similar capability (likely a Missile Strike). Destroyers would intercept subs just like their aircraft predecessors. Jet Fighters would then receive a Sonar Buoy order for active detection, revealing subs in a 2-tile fat cross radius around a target (replacing the Destroyer's passive ability). Subs could still attack straight-out, leaving them vulnerable to damage in combat but allowing them to take out relatively unprotected carriers or transports after the fleet has been delt with.

This would all obviously refer to a unit called an Attack Sub or simply Submarine, with Ballistic Subs or Nuclear Subs designed solely for carrying tactical nukes (SS boats can also be nuclear, so Ballistic Sub or Missile Sub would likely be a better name).
 
@Thalassicus - The recon sight does work for seeing subs but its all or nothing... the acraft can spot a sub while its on a carrier (or in a city) but its in a 9 square grid as thats the base unmodified sight range of any unit.

As for the rest of your post I knew this :)
My Grandfather served on a Destroyer and loves to talk about the battles he was in and the naval ships of the time... and I love to listen lol.

I think you need to see what I did for the next release if I can get it out... I am trying to delay my Laptops repairs for a few days to try and get it released... I will be short on translations in about 5 files (mainly the new civs and a cpl interface options) but all the Tech and Unit names have been translated so far and everything else seems to be stable. I am going to try and finish the changelog today as I am trying to rewrite it and hopefully get it posted...

Honestly wish i could completely finish the plans I had for this version but its either release now when I know its stable or release 2-3 weeks from now when I get my computer back and can test play changes again.
 
hi exavier
i see your project is going well.
looking forward for your next release!

i have a quastion - does it matter in what order do i get in nformation into an xml file?
for example - lets say i add a civ, on the civilzationinfo,xml - i put the civ details on the end of the file,
then i go on to the file leaderheadinfos.xml, there i put the civdetails on the top of the file .
will this cause some desync? or other problems? or it doesnt really matter?

thanks
 
I don't think it will make any errors. Only thing that happens is when things are not sorted alphabeticly it can come in another possition.
 
As for the rest of your post I knew this :)

I know, I was just considering the options :)

I've been using my brother as a sounding board for ideas for earlier era ships. It's a shame ship boarding isn't much of a tactic after the 1800's -- a side effect I didn't see coming is that it makes for interesting decisions on a battle-by-battle basis. For example, if your sailing fleet meets an AI Ship of the Line in coastal waters with Combat promotions to bring it's capabilities at or above your own ships of the line, you can suicide one of your novice ships against it and then capture with a privateer -- gaining yourself a SotL and some experience in trade for a frigate or privateer. If your SotL's have good combat odds against the opponent, you can engage it directly instead to build up experience for those ships. You basically get the choice of weighing your odds and deciding if it's worth the risk to try and kill the ship outright for experience gain, or go the safe route with an attack and capture.

I havn't figured out exactly how modern ships could be done to get some of this tactical depth in individual battles. Boarding became less and less important as naval guns increased in power... if we could figure out some way to impliment missile warfare that might do the trick. The key problems with creating modern Civ IV naval warfare are that it's turn based, and all combat essentially occurs in melee range. Some kind of Air Strike-style ranged assault might work. To give some degree of desicion making, you'd need have two choices: one method of attack that has low risk but little to no experience gain, or a second method that's riskier, with experience gain possible. This could be similar to the choice of board or engage in the age of sailing ships, giving a smooth transition in gameplay.

A similar WWII-era implimentation could be with aircraft replacing the role of missiles for long-range warfare. Engage and sink with planes, or approach to close range to level up your surface ships?

In real life it wasn't a choice, but it would add some decision-making to "My fleet's bigger than your fleet, so I'll just stack-attack the whole thing and see what happens!" gameplay for naval warfare.
 
@thalassicus: I don't do naval battles too much (I usually play pangea or another land-based map), but it sounds to me like the thing you're talking about would be like the bombard command in Civ III. I personally liked it as well, and would like to see someone mod it back in (probably would need SDK), because it was nice to have on archers and seige weapons.

O, BTW, Exavier, do you know if Zuul's newest version will make it in before the next release of your mod?
 
@Zuul - I agree... hence why I delayed the repair of my laptop and am killing it even farther to try and get everything organized for the next release :P

@keldath - Most of the XML files don't matter what order they are in... CivilizationInfos does as they appear in the selection screen in the order they are put in it. LeaderHeadInfos order is only seen when selecting your side in MP games otherwise it doesn't matter. I personally try to keep all my changes at the bottom of the XML file so i can easily recognize the changes and it makes updating files easier as when i compare files I can see if anything has changed in the original data by doing a line by line comparison... because I didn't add any lines in there :)

As for the crashes... if its python not really... if its XML its usually pretty easy as it tells you where the error is and you have to just track it down.

@Thalassicus - I think you'd like the next release when I get it organized... Its got alot of changes to it and while it still needs some tweaks it actually works really nice :)

@GeneralMikeIII - I dout it sadly... I could put it in quickly but I won't know its stability on release... Its the same reason the Military base mod has been scrapped for this version as well... lack of testing time :(
 
It's exactly like the bombard command, but with intercept chances, and they transferred it to aircraft-only. We just need to alter the code so that it's more modular. All it would really need on the XML side is two new values: Bombard type, BOMBARD_AIRCRAFT, MISSILE, SHELL, etc. and a BombardIntercept. Artillery/archers obviously can't be intercepted, but Tomahawk cruise missiles can :)
 
Does anyone know if there is a mod very much like this one that also has the "leaders" mod in it? Or by chance has the creator of this one thought of adding the "leaders" mod to this one as well?
 
Thalassicus said:
So I was thinking (with the SDK) Submarines could replace the figher's anti-ship role in the late modern age. WWII-era Fighters can Air Strike ships -- Submarines would have a similar capability (likely a Missile Strike). Destroyers would intercept subs just like their aircraft predecessors. Jet Fighters would then receive a Sonar Buoy order for active detection, revealing subs in a 2-tile fat cross radius around a target (replacing the Destroyer's passive ability). Subs could still attack straight-out, leaving them vulnerable to damage in combat but allowing them to take out relatively unprotected carriers or transports after the fleet has been delt with.

This would all obviously refer to a unit called an Attack Sub or simply Submarine, with Ballistic Subs or Nuclear Subs designed solely for carrying tactical nukes (SS boats can also be nuclear, so Ballistic Sub or Missile Sub would likely be a better name).

Ok first thing i see is why not stick with the actual terminology.. WW II era SS's. Modern; SSN's (submarine nuclear propulsion) or Fast Attack Submarines. And SSBN's (ballistic missile submarine nuclear propulsion) or Boomers.

secondly, fighters do not generally deploy ASW equiptment. You would use either a modded S-3B Viking (2 prop plane) or/and SH-60F helo. So why not either give the carrier stats based on these planes or make a new unit ASW helo. also Carrier battle groups usually consist of 1 Carrier w/ (80 aircraft), 2 Cruisers, Anti-air destroyers & anti-sub destroyers (same hulls diff weapons ect..), Anti-sub frigates, 2 SSN's & supply ships..

thirdly,.. small "gun boats" are only effective in coastal waters.. The cole was in a port. out at sea a CBG controls a vast area of. And there is always atleast 1 squadron of fighters & AWACS in the air (Airbourne Warning and Control System, 360 degree radar "sees" 200 miles)

Subs will never 'replace' fighters in attacking ships (assuming a air base is near or a carrier). for a few reasons. a fighter is alot faster getting out of the conflict area. Anti ship missiles have a operational range of around 100miles. only 1 or 2 need to hit the carrier to make the Battle group inoperable as a strike force (I realize subs only need to do the same damage for effect). A conventional sub (no missiles) needs to be within about 5 miles, modern is substantially farther. and with electro magnetic detection for ASW its getting easier to detect subs. i love subs almost went into the sub service.. but a lone squadron of fighters with bunch of ASM has a better survival ratio. (i may be wrong im no expert. just my thinkin')
 
@Thalassicus & khakhan007 - I don't mean to sound mean but these very long off topic posts need to stop... Its starting to clog up the thread deticated to my mod... thanx :)

@Shichiaikan - I am not sure what the Leaders Mod is but I do plan to add more Civs to the game... Though not untill after I get my PC fixed (PC going to repair after this release)
 
OK Choice Time...

I can release now... (well before i go to bed tonight)
The only thing is there is 1 minor bug that will take me a while to fix if you want me to fix it...
The original bug as Condor will agree was annoying in that it generated about a 10 lines of random numbers in the Event/Chat logs every turn... I fixed that as it was a debug line that was in Mylon's Culture Mod... However there is a smaller version of it that posts (for active player only, so MP games won't see it for other players) the culture a city is generating in the chat/event log every time you open and close the city interface.

If you guys think that bug is not problem (minor annoyence if you pay attention to it) then I can have the release packed and uploaded by tonight so you have all weekend to play :P

Your choice :lol:
 
just release it so i can play it on the weekend.. no internet at home ATM... :D
 
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