[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

Hyborem's Whisper is the name of the spell. The 'pedia says that it allows Hyborem to take over an Ashen Veil city (I guess that means any city that has the Ashen Veil in it). He did it to me in my last game, so I just declared war on him and retook the city in question. He was on a distant continent so he couldn't do anything about it.
So long as you don't have the Ashen Veil in your city, then Hyborem cannot take it from you then? My civilization wasn't Ashen Veil, but I certainly might have had the religion in the city since it does bring in additional research.

Do you know if there is any way to fight this other than not having Ashen Veil in your city?

Thanks.
 
So long as you don't have the Ashen Veil in your city, then Hyborem cannot take it from you then? My civilization wasn't Ashen Veil, but I certainly might have had the religion in the city since it does bring in additional research.

Do you know if there is any way to fight this other than not having Ashen Veil in your city?

Thanks.

I've only had it happen to me the one time, so I'm hardly an expert, but I'm guessing that's right, keeping AV out of your cities is probably the only way to avoid it. I don't think it's a resistible spell.

In my case, I found retaking the city very easy, because Hyborem was on a different continent and had no units in the city. Having to rebuild buildings in the city was annoying, of course, but that was really the only downside for me.
 
No offense, Kael, but this completely SUCKS!!!! I always use the Great Engineer to quickly bring in the Guild of Hammers which permits me to start building the City of 1000 Slums immediately after more quickly. In fact I typically don't construct forges since I get smelting, then go for Engineering as soon as possible rather than waste valuable shields working on expensive forges.

Kael can speak for himself, of course, but I think this is precisely why he made the change, thinking it was too unbalanced -- first one to Engineering got a huge production boost. The Guild of Hammers is still very powerful, you just have to work a bit harder to get it now.

2. Guilds in FFH2 don't really have the significance or impact that they do in BTS -- the mercenaries from the merchant's guild are nice; the other stuff is of little effect. "Ratcatcher's guild" I have had in most of my games but I still have little idea what it does because it has little or no effect apparent on gameplay. Aeron's bounty - 2 XP for recon units -- is another big "so what" because by the time you get it, usually you already have a force of trained recon units that has been gaining XP. Most of the other guilds are restricted to specific factions (i.e. Cult of the Dragon) and have little impact whatever on gameplay. Ditto on the others.

It would be nice to see the guild concept developed more -- there are lots of opportunities for this -- like in vanilla BTS where corporations offer some more meaningful and distinct benefits and drawbacks. As it is, merchant guild mercenaries are about the only guild that has any discernable effect on gameplay. Seriously, a wizard's guild that offered a research bonus but production penalty, or similar things, would be great -- competing guilds that can't coexist in the same city, etc. There are lots of opportunities for cool guilds in a fantasy universe like FFH2.

In addition to the Guild of the Nine, which gives you the mercenaries, the Guild of Hammers is very powerful, with its free Forges in every city. But I agree with your general point that the other guilds are pretty underpowered in comparison.
 
In addition to the Guild of the Nine, which gives you the mercenaries, the Guild of Hammers is very powerful, with its free Forges in every city. But I agree with your general point that the other guilds are pretty underpowered in comparison.

Guilds are not ment to have a gamebreaking or very powerful effect, they are nice additions, both mechanically and flvourwise, but not neccessary to go for. that is intentional.
 
Guilds are not ment to have a gamebreaking or very powerful effect, they are nice additions, both mechanically and flvourwise, but not neccessary to go for. that is intentional.

Be that as it may, most of the guilds are completely useless. The only guilds I ever see used by myself or the AI are Cult of the Dragon, the Mercenaries Guild, and Guild of Hammers. And once, I saw Aeron's Bounty founded by myself, but only once. That leaves several out of the picture. Kinda a waste of code imho if only a four guilds ever get used.
 
Guilds are not ment to have a gamebreaking or very powerful effect, they are nice additions, both mechanically and flvourwise, but not neccessary to go for. that is intentional.

I don't argue that any guild is a gamebreaker or a necessity, any more than any of the wonders is, but I think it's undeniable that some guilds are much more useful than others. (I know the same can be said about wonders, but those are balanced by tech requirements and hammer costs.)

I think the core of the complaints I've seen on these forums is that a number of guilds have little or no impact on game play, while others have a significant effect: an empire-wide production boost (Guild of Hammers), or the ability to substantially enlarge your military in a single turn (Guild of the Nine), is much more useful than whatever it is that Aeron's Bounty or the Circle of Gaelan does.

In fairness to you guys on the FfH design team, it could be that you're just victims of your own success. Seriously. This is such an interesting and creative mod that people might have had unfairly high expectations about what you would do in converting BtS corporations to FfH, so perhaps there's some disappointment out there at how some of that has turned out.

It's ultimately Kael's mod, of course, so it's up to him if he's happy with how Guilds are working or if he wants to start a new thread for Guild-related suggestions (hint, hint). ;)
 
Stupid Question:

Is there a comprehensive list of the Guilds and what they do that I have missed. I've never seen Aeron's Bounty.

Thanks
 
I don't argue that any guild is a gamebreaker or a necessity, any more than any of the wonders is, but I think it's undeniable that some guilds are much more useful than others. (I know the same can be said about wonders, but those are balanced by tech requirements and hammer costs.)

I think the core of the complaints I've seen on these forums is that a number of guilds have little or no impact on game play, while others have a significant effect: an empire-wide production boost (Guild of Hammers), or the ability to substantially enlarge your military in a single turn (Guild of the Nine), is much more useful than whatever it is that Aeron's Bounty or the Circle of Gaelan does.

In fairness to you guys on the FfH design team, it could be that you're just victims of your own success. Seriously. This is such an interesting and creative mod that people might have had unfairly high expectations about what you would do in converting BtS corporations to FfH, so perhaps there's some disappointment out there at how some of that has turned out.

It's ultimately Kael's mod, of course, so it's up to him if he's happy with how Guilds are working or if he wants to start a new thread for Guild-related suggestions (hint, hint). ;)

There is a temptation to tweak every aspect to make it a major aspect, but by design some are desireable and some aren't as much. Guild of the Nine and the Guild of Hammers are both rewards of actions taken by the players and offer significant reward for those efforts. Aerons Bounty and the Circle of Galaen are both rewarded by random events, so they shouldn't appeal to the same degree as other guilds. The Ratcatchers Guild and the Cult of the Dragon intentionally have negative consequences (most players wouldnt want them in their cities) so we definitly dont want them to be at equal power.

Lastly the Brotherhood of Wardens is a pretty cool guild, but most human players won't see it because they tend to restart or reload if they lose cities instead of using the Brotherhood as a mechanic to come back.

So from a design perspective its perfectly fine with us if you are only interested in the Guild of Hammers and the Guild of the Nine and build goals. The only real fault I have with them is that the Circle of Gaelen and Aeron's Bounty aren't very interesting, not that they aren't powerful enough. Circle of Gaelen does okay since you get the hero for it, but Aeron's Bounty doesn't do much one way or the other. Gaelen could probably use the ability to be able to upgrade to an archmage eventually and we probably need something more interesting from Aeron's Bounty than just the xp boost and the event options.

Stupid Question:

Is there a comprehensive list of the Guilds and what they do that I have missed. I've never seen Aeron's Bounty.

Thanks

Civilopedia -> Guilds
 
Stupid Question:

Is there a comprehensive list of the Guilds and what they do that I have missed. I've never seen Aeron's Bounty.

Thanks

The first post in the below thread describes what was planned for Guilds back when "Shadow" was being worked on. Don't know how much has changed since then.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=249189

EDIT:

@Kael:

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I don't necessarily think that Aeron's Bounty and Circle of Gaelan need to be made more powerful necessarily, it's just that I've scarcely seen them have any effect in my recent games, so I'm definitely with you on making them more interesting in some way.

In some of the early "Shadow" games I played I had the Ratcatchers' Guild in one of my cities and used it occasionally in some events, but have seen little effect from it in more recent games. Maybe I've just been good at keeping crime rates under control. :)

I understand what you're saying about Cult of the Dragon. Pre-Shadow, when it was a religion rather than a guild, most players wouldn't want it in their cities either, so that's consistent with how it's been.
 
Ars Moriendi. You got Buboes right, but the others are spelled Stephanos and Yersinia (I think).
Yeah... You're right!!!! I'm not big with spelling (I'm a programmer -- what do you expect?). I do have a question though... The first three (Buboes, Stephanos, and Yersinia) are all in the CivilizationUnits.xml file; what the heck is with Ars Moriendi that he doesn't appear here?
 
Yeah... You're right!!!! I'm not big with spelling (I'm a programmer -- what do you expect?). I do have a question though... The first three (Buboes, Stephanos, and Yersinia) are all in the CivilizationUnits.xml file; what the heck is with Ars Moriendi that he doesn't appear here?

Can't help you there. I'm not a programmer, so I don't bother with those files, sorry.
 
There is no CivilizationUnits.xml file. I think you are talking about CIV4UnitInfos.xml. Ars Moriendi is in there, but like many units his name is not the same as the xml. He is referred to simply as UNIT_ARS. (Likewise, Baron Duin Halfmourn is just UNIT_DUIN)
 
Stupid Question:

Is there a comprehensive list of the Guilds and what they do that I have missed. I've never seen Aeron's Bounty.

Thanks

Um...yeah, read the pedia. It's unner, strangely nough, guilds.
 
Thank you so much. You're the 3rd person to kindly point that out to me. I did say it was a Stupid Question 'fool. :lol:


Fine. But plz refer to me as it says in my sig, by "rlaf". I don't like bein called fool, if you'd be kind nough to do as I ask.
 
Well, you chose the name, didn't you?

Yes, well, I didn't choose to be called 'fool'. So, plz use the abbreviation in my sig. And, tyvm, Broken_Hawk, for doin so.
 
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