[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

[Lightzy]

Should add to the hero entries which civ they belong to.
Gets rather confusing otherwise, and you have to either comb the entire tech tree or just hope you come across the tech that gives you your civz hero.

 

[PapaMonkey]

I think that the Luchuirp need something. I was playing them last night and was knocked silly. First I did not get the Dwarven Soldier. Then the Golumns with Construction sounded good, but they suffer heavily without promotions and Construction was a long time coming. An archer with only 2 city promotions fortified in a city with any culture is 3 * (1+.4+.4+.25+.25) = 7.2 which makes for some really tough odds against a 6.

I then noticed I could upgrade my wariors to these Golumns (must be a dwarf thing) so I would try to get a few promotions to the wariors then upgrade, but that seemed a long way around and possibly an exploit.

Just my thoughts, and to temper this a bit, it was my first game on Emporer too. I got whacked early and hard.

 

[bluehorn]

One little problem I've noticed is that once in a while, after I've founded a religion, the holy city stops being a holy city. It's happened on a few occasions at least, I'll usually notice when I check the religion page and notice that there is no holy city for my religion.

 

[Chalid]

Should add to the hero entries which civ they belong to.
Gets rather confusing otherwise, and you have to either comb the entire tech tree or just hope you come across the tech that gives you your civz hero.

That way it is rather difficlut as the unit does not "know" to which civ it belongs.
The heroes might be listed with the civilizations as uniqe units, aren"t they. If not we have to think of something.

 

[Lightzy]

Rather simple I think,
heroes have their 'flavour text' and such, just, in the top line, write something like "Clan of Embers Hero"

The tech requirements should already be where the tech requirements are

 

[Kael]

And my #1 favorite bug--> Disappearing Units!
This one is weird, but, it seems to be that if you move units in a stack through ancient forests and you trigger a treant, some portion of your stack of units may or may not disappear. I've had 6 units disappear on me in this manner (no combat results or messages, just.. *poof* gone) in the span of about 4 turns. I *think* that's what's happening, but it may be some other effect I am unaware of. In this instance, all of these units were moving through enemy territory (Hyborem) including Ancient Forests (Hyborem converted to Fellowship of the Leaves... so wrong...).

Teg_Navanis found out what was causing this and it will be fixed in the next version, thanks!

 

[Chalid]

Rather simple I think,
heroes have their 'flavour text' and such, just, in the top line, write something like "Clan of Embers Hero"

The tech requirements should already be where the tech requirements are

There you can see how complicated i think.... i thought about auto generating a symble that shows it but of cours you are right. Something like this should be done or a line added to their "Abilities" that indicates it.

 

[woodelf]

I think that the Luchuirp need something. I was playing them last night and was knocked silly. First I did not get the Dwarven Soldier. Then the Golumns with Construction sounded good, but they suffer heavily without promotions and Construction was a long time coming. An archer with only 2 city promotions fortified in a city with any culture is 3 * (1+.4+.4+.25+.25) = 7.2 which makes for some really tough odds against a 6.

I then noticed I could upgrade my wariors to these Golumns (must be a dwarf thing) so I would try to get a few promotions to the wariors then upgrade, but that seemed a long way around and possibly an exploit.

Just my thoughts, and to temper this a bit, it was my first game on Emporer too. I got whacked early and hard.

Yeah, we're discussing these guys some more. I was surprised about the lack of Dwarven Soldiers too and the fact that I couldn't build any golems to fight with for way too long. I got squashed badly.

 

[Kael]

I think that the Luchuirp need something. I was playing them last night and was knocked silly. First I did not get the Dwarven Soldier. Then the Golumns with Construction sounded good, but they suffer heavily without promotions and Construction was a long time coming. An archer with only 2 city promotions fortified in a city with any culture is 3 * (1+.4+.4+.25+.25) = 7.2 which makes for some really tough odds against a 6.

I then noticed I could upgrade my wariors to these Golumns (must be a dwarf thing) so I would try to get a few promotions to the wariors then upgrade, but that seemed a long way around and possibly an exploit.

Just my thoughts, and to temper this a bit, it was my first game on Emporer too. I got whacked early and hard.

I havent done any balancing yet because Im redoing the tech tree right now. Until that is in it doesnt make much sense to tweak to much since thing could be appearing dramatically earlier or later.

 

[abman]

To those people who want the mod to load faster:
You can make FFH2 load as fast as vanilla if you move everything from the FFH2 Mods\Assets folder to your CustomAssets folder. Leave the FFH2 Assets folder empty and run the mod. However, you will need to move the FFH2 files back out of the CustomAssets folder if you wish to play another mod or vanilla. But copying from one folder to another is MUCH quicker than the game's default mod loading process.

No guarantees this won't cause an error somewhere in a game, but I have yet to run into one personally. Mod load time disappears when you do this, so I'm willing to risk bugs. Just remember if you do this and DO encounter a bug, retry things with the files in the FFH2 directory BEFORE you send Kael a bug report, since that's where they files were intended to be. This method is not supported and comes with no warranty.

 

[Kael]

To those people who want the mod to load faster:
You can make FFH2 load as fast as vanilla if you move everything from the FFH2 Mods\Assets folder to your CustomAssets folder. Leave the FFH2 Assets folder empty and run the mod. However, you will need to move the FFH2 files back out of the CustomAssets folder if you wish to play another mod or vanilla. But copying from one folder to another is MUCH quicker than the game's default mod loading process.

No guarantees this won't cause an error somewhere in a game, but I have yet to run into one personally. Mod load time disappears when you do this, so I'm willing to risk bugs. Just remember if you do this and DO encounter a bug, retry things with the files in the FFH2 directory BEFORE you send Kael a bug report, since that's where they files were intended to be. This method is not supported and comes with no warranty.

I would prefer this wasn't done as it will:

1. Break other mods (including other versions of FfH).
2. Keep patching from working.

Of course there are ways around these issues, but in my mind its going to cause a lot of frustration when other mods and vanilla civ dont work anymore because FfH is installed.

 

[Kael]

I think that the Luchuirp need something. I was playing them last night and was knocked silly. First I did not get the Dwarven Soldier. Then the Golumns with Construction sounded good, but they suffer heavily without promotions and Construction was a long time coming. An archer with only 2 city promotions fortified in a city with any culture is 3 * (1+.4+.4+.25+.25) = 7.2 which makes for some really tough odds against a 6.

I then noticed I could upgrade my wariors to these Golumns (must be a dwarf thing) so I would try to get a few promotions to the wariors then upgrade, but that seemed a long way around and possibly an exploit.

Just my thoughts, and to temper this a bit, it was my first game on Emporer too. I got whacked early and hard.

Im checking Barnaxus in today. He should help the Luchuirp out considerably. "As long as Barnaxus lives, there is hope."

 

[Belizan]

Lizardmen --> When attacking/capturing workers from the water, the worker is left in the water (where it is stuck and can't move). This presumably applies to units with water walking as well.

The worker should be able to move into the land square it was at last turn.

Truth be told, this was done to me by the barbarians with a lizardman unit where I wasn't looking, and the worker was stuck there in the water for about 40 turns until I came over with a boat and captured it back.

As an asside in Vanilla civ, barbs don't capture workers or settlers, in part, I think to prevent the player from mitigating their losses through recapture. Not sure I like that better, truthfully, but.... anyway....

Spring --> Can convert desert oasis into a "super oasis" which is very nice, but perhaps unintended 8).

We talked about that at length during design. We couldnt find any solution we were really happy with more than leaving the oasis.

Turn it into a nature node!... yeah.. ok. nevermind .

Elven Town/Farm --> Do not receive river derived commerce bonuses (which IMO is a bug).

There actually isn't any such thing as an elven town or farm. All I did was add a new build option that doesn't clear the forest when it is built. It actually builds the same improvement and the normal build town option. People were a bit confused that there were two "build town" options in the pedia so i renamed one "build elven town" just to make it more clear.

The bonus's on the actual improvement should be the same (because the improvement is the same).

Well, the trouble is that forests prevent river commerce bonuses. This is normally not a problem, because you can't build improvements on forests. The elves let you do that, but they have no compensation for the river factor. The only way to fix it that I know of, off hand (without using the SDK), is to make two improvements, one forest and one non-forest, with tests for bloom and clearing to swap between the two, and add to the forest version traits similar to the lumbermill--

<RiverSideYieldChange>
<iYield>0</iYield>
<iYield>0</iYield>
<iYield>1</iYield>
</RiverSideYieldChange>

Not sure I recall what the behavior of Camps are in this regard. Hrmm...

Warriors can't upgrade to Archers? This is probably not a bug, but it was still surprising.

Warriors can upgrade to archers, what civ were you playing? The Doviello can't build archers.

Elves (Ljiosflar or however that's spelled 8). As Thessa.

Edit: Ah! I bet this is another Forest of Leaves issue. I think I only had Leaves Archers when I still had Warriors and could not upgrade them.

Another probably not a bug feature-->Upgrades. Elven Warriors upgrade to Elven Swordsman which upgrade to Elven Macemen (which probably upgrade to Pikeman, but I'm not that far along) but you can still build Warriors or Swordsman even after you have iron and maceman. I'm not even saying this is a bad thing, just wasn't sure if it was intentional, or a cut&paste error while cloning standard melee units to their elven equivalents.

You onl;y drop an option off of your build list if you can build all of its upgrades in that city. So you still have the elven warrior listed because you can't build the drown, you still have the elven swordsman listed because you can't build the pikeman. Ive been thinking about changing the drown upgrade to an ability for OO warriors instead of an upgrade so the warrior quits sticking around for everyone.

Yes, I understand how it works normally. In any one of my elven towns under units I will see, simultaneously, an icon for building Elven Warriors, Elven Swordsman and Elven Maceman. Personally, I sort of like having the options, but it's not clear that was what you intended, doubly so from your verbage here.

Elven Archers --> So... you convert to Fellowship of the Leaves, and you can build Archers. But then... you develop archery, and you can't build them anymore! Now you need to build an Archery Range. ... .....

Yeah, the block is supposed to keep it from listing the religious elven archer if you can build the normal elven archer (pCity.canTrain check). But it doesn't work, for some reacon the check is returning true even if you don't have an archery range. Im going to rename the units and leave the units in for the next version (i didnt want the same unit listed twice with different costs).

Tsk, tsk... modifying CvGameInterface.py...

From CannotTrain:

	if eUnit == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ELVEN_ARCHER_LEAVES'):
		if pCity.canTrain(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ELVEN_ARCHER'), True, True):
			return True

That would seem to be the opposite of what you wanted?

 

[Kael]

Well, the trouble is that forests prevent river commerce bonuses. This is normally not a problem, because you can't build improvements on forests. The elves let you do that, but they have no compensation for the river factor. The only way to fix it that I know of, off hand (without using the SDK), is to make two improvements, one forest and one non-forest, with tests for bloom and clearing to swap between the two, and add to the forest version traits similar to the lumbermill--

<RiverSideYieldChange>
<iYield>0</iYield>
<iYield>0</iYield>
<iYield>1</iYield>
</RiverSideYieldChange>

Not sure I recall what the behavior of Camps are in this regard. Hrmm...

Ahh.. that makes sense. Hmm.. If I made 2 improvements that would give you the river, forest and improvement bonus. Im leaning toward leaving it as is and letting the elves keep their forest bonus but lose their river bonus.

Tsk, tsk... modifying CvGameInterface.py...

Leave me my dirty secrets. I think I make Chalid dry sometimes when he see's my poor programming.

From CannotTrain:

	if eUnit == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ELVEN_ARCHER_LEAVES'):
		if pCity.canTrain(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ELVEN_ARCHER'), True, True):
			return True

That would seem to be the opposite of what you wanted?

The code is good. If you are considering making a religious elven archer (eUnit) and you are able to make a normal elven archer in that city then you can't make the religious elven archer (return true to cannotTrain). The problem is that I expected that if you didn't have an archery range the pCity.canTrain would return negative to being able to build an elven archer and it doesn't work.

Im taking Chalids suggestion and just renaming the religious elven archer Archer of Leaves and the religious dwarven soldier Soldier of Kilmorph to get around this (and removing the cannottrain blocks).

 

[mamimo]

Hi,
Small balance issue:
I guess you already have the road map planned for magical item, so I just wanted to make a point:
I think it was said that Orthus Axe is a prototype of magical items, in any way I think it's too weak, know when we have spells & special units/heroes 10% is too low for magical item.

 

[Kael]

Hi,
Small balance issue:
I guess you already have the road map planned for magical item, so I just wanted to make a point:
I think it was said that Orthus Axe is a prototype of magical items, in any way I think it's too weak, know when we have spells & special units/heroes 10% is too low for magical item.

Orthus's Axe gives +25% and the Blitz promotion.

 

[thealien_83]

I'm not sure if the Command Post building gives the XP boost it's supposed to give. Either that or something else. Bear with me.
Playing a game as the Lanun, I have the following XP increases: Apprenticeship, Conquest, Form of the Titan, Training Yard and Command Post. Now that ought to be 2 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 11, right ? But I'm only getting 9.
Now I'm not 110% it's the Command Post that's not doing it's thing, but that's the most recent addition, and I do think I got all the XP I should up until that one, so.. Might be a problem, I don't know. Either way, there you have it.

Cheers!

 

[Kael]

I'm not sure if the Command Post building gives the XP boost it's supposed to give. Either that or something else. Bear with me.
Playing a game as the Lanun, I have the following XP increases: Apprenticeship, Conquest, Form of the Titan, Training Yard and Command Post. Now that ought to be 2 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 11, right ? But I'm only getting 9.
Now I'm not 110% it's the Command Post that's not doing it's thing, but that's the most recent addition, and I do think I got all the XP I should up until that one, so.. Might be a problem, I don't know. Either way, there you have it.

Cheers!

You are right (the command post isnt giving xp), I will fix it in the next version.

 

[Belizan]

Ahh.. that makes sense. Hmm.. If I made 2 improvements that would give you the river, forest and improvement bonus. Im leaning toward leaving it as is and letting the elves keep their forest bonus but lose their river bonus.

The problem with this is that rivers then become largely meaningless to the Elves for production purposes.

 

[Lightzy]

Chalid, my problem isn't so much with um, recognizing what I need to build the hero AFTER I've built the hero, so lines in the special abilities won't help much.
It's more to find out what I need before.. and there being lots of unique civz.. and each having a unique hero with a different tech requirement..

Here's a rather far fetched one, but, supposing there are 2 heroes for each unique civz (I know there's 1 atm), why not add a tech like.. "Heroism" and, I dunno, "Gallant Heroism" or somesuch, that'll be the tech you need to get a hero, regardless of what civ you play?

It could be a multiple 'or' requirement tech so that its relatively easy to reach from any direction on the tech tree, and it could have some added oomph by perhaps moving a wonder or somesuch there. like the 'heroic epic' thing