Hi
First of all, i apologize for every grammar/language mistake i may do, as im from germany, and what im typing right now is just based on what i've learned in school and by playing english language-games
I'm playing civIV since some time now - or to be more precise - im playing FFH2 since some time now. And let me say - as i'm waiting for my semester at university to begin i have A LOT OF TIME to spent playing this game
There were phase i've stopped playing this game - thanks to this mod! - only to eat and sleep
I want to give to you, my personal review of FFH2 - criticism and suggestions that have gained shape in my head while playing, about the magic aspect of the game. I'm sorry once again, as im giving comments to FFH2 and FF in the same post, but as kael wrote, he's going to merge some things anyway i hope that can be excused.
This mod can no longer be seen or judged as a simple mod. Whenever i buy a new game, i usually search in the net for mods for it, so i did for civ, so i have seen a lot of mods, for many games - i think im able to compare.
So, because of this, let me say: This is no longer a simple mod.
This is a completly new game. Or at least an addon for CivIV (which, counting the new mechanisms and possibilities this mod offers, may be even nicer than Warlords or BtS was - of course seen from the position of a gamer, not from that of a software enginer or hobby programmer).
I think that does demonstrate the best, what big respect i hold for the responsable people.
But - enough of the nice words ;-)
what i want to critize is the magic aspect of the game.
I was really disappointed, when the summoners were deleated from the game. Not that only a complete unit line was deletet, so were also many spells, some returned under other circumstances. Even if some of the changes were absoluty acceptable, observing the balance, like the meteor spell which was replaced, i think since that time, the arcance unit line/magic aspect of the game has lost much of its content and most of its attractivity.
And, that has brought many problems/balance problems into the version of today:
Summoner - due to the loss of the summoners, the trait was nerfed alot of course, as the name says, and at the moment i think its nearly (in the way it works at the moment!) useless. Nearly all summoned creatures are tier3 spells, what means, that until having researched the needed tech, hatched the needed adepts and waited a long boring tech time which have been ten times more effective if spended for iron working/melee unit line or something alike you can make use of your leaders attributes. While other attributes, even the weaker ones as, only as an example, financial (i dont want to blame financial, i just dont think its as good as others, for example aggressive or charismatic) have brought much more usefulness to your flourishing empire.
And what is your benefit of it? most of your summons will be seriously hurt at the end of the combat there were called for anyway (so the only thing you can do is hoping the 2rd round heals it enough that it can attack the last one another time. And if not - you still have cannon fodder for the advancing hostile asssins. HURRAY!
The other possible benefit would be, that your summons could march longer to the front line, much means your (arch)mages can stay at a safe spot, far away from danger... but wait. Spell extension does the same!
So - summoner is leader trait, which does nothing but improving/substitute a promotion, that could be otherwise be archieved by your units theirselves.
I will not mention the balseraph puppet thing, as it is somehow out-of-discussion anyway. It blows the frame (i dont know if that adage exists in the english language... ).
Maybe delete that perk completly and introducing 3 new promotions that give +summon duration per level? If that is possible. Btw. i have always wondered why the amurites don't have the summoner trait, insteat they have organized (good for command post, which means more experienced mages, or philosophical - what is completly misplaced i think).
Arcane
I think the arcane leader attribute is not really a "advantage" in the classic sense like the other traits - instead it is the only thing that makes magic units sustainable for "military" use. Without, adepts need so much time levelling up, that it rarely makes sense trying to build up a horde of warmongering battle mages (of course, the game coherence never claimed to do so - or in other words: if you are trying to force the brute orc people to become that, its your fault if they don't, orcs were made for stabbin', punchin', and smashing! and not for wearing sissy magic rods).
What i want to say - i think its really a pity, that magic has been degraded from an important aspect of the game, to a maybe-possibility on the brink of the battlefield, made for people that would bore otherwise.
Have you ever tried to launch a fireball into a pack of 6-9 mithril- or iron-, would be enough, weapons wearing units? You'll need about twice as much as there are units, which means twice as much mages, to kill only the half of them.
Or, compare the high-tier summons with the high-tier units from the melee or the ranged/assassin aspect.
Maybe im wrong, but i think they should be more alike.
By the way, i don't like the fireball spell anyway, but to that topic later on more.
All in all - i think at the moment the arcane aspect of the game is very boring, both, assassins and melee units own mages of all kind.
Of course, you may counter that if mages would own other units so easily, that would not weigh off the costs they have, and maybe thats right. But vice-versa the costs on time and money a lonely archmage does to you, means maybe 3-4 champions with iron or mithril weapons.
And because of that - amurites suck, magic gets owned by weapons, and so does the amure civilization by all others. At the end, all civilizations have to rely on cannon-fodder footman, which means champions or the according national units, and some siege and assassin units to pick up the city-defenses/weakened units.
That would not be so hard, if they would be better at beginning or end of the game, but the other tech lines beat magic at all stages.
Ok, i think you got my point
When i think of a magic using civilzation, a high skilled one, i think of mighty people. Single persons of which a single word is enough to make and end to even the fiercest of the warriors of the world. People whos arcane rituals can bring down entire cities. Where only a hand of people is enough to cover an entire battlefield with raining fire.
At the moment - mages are much time spend for nothing.
ok, time for the suggestions
Maybe you disagree with me, maybe you think magic is absolutly okay at the moment. Maybe you think that magic in FHH2/FF should be off the road-thing. If not, read further and torture yourselfes with my pityful tries of writing an english comment :>
Suggestions:
1.) How to enhance the amurites:
a.)I like the khadi thing from FF. Their magic units can be archieved sooner, that brings it to the point - a civilization were even normal men are so skilled with magic, should have a "magic career ladder" that can be climbed on faster - as most of the students will know the basic stuff of their studies anyway
But i think this still brings no help to the magic thing of the whole game.
b.)Govannon. Change his abilities. As far as i can read from the describtions of the amurites, their folk is already skilled with magic anyway - that skill should not come to game at such an late stage, nor should it rely on a single hero unit. My suggestions: Bring in mechanic, that gives a magic skill or more to the basic units. For balancing maybe still on different stages on the came, but not depending on a single unit. My proposal would be different wonders that give further promotions - for example a warrior-mage academy that gives +whatever to melee units. This could be
- haste-ability for everyone (they get it anyway with govannon)
- enchanted weapons (maybe only with acess to enchantment mana)
- fire/ice/poison-whatever-elemental-like weapons for everyone - substracting physical damage from their units and adding magic one. (i think that would really fit) - or maybe even a (national) wonder that will give +random elemental damage-promotion to all your melee units each round. if this can be done.
i think theres a variety of possibilities.
Thinkable would be also a wonder/spell/whatever-mechanic that enhances amurite workers (as they represent the non-military aspect of a civilization).
Maybe terraforming at a late time of the game? Symbolizing that the amurite use of magic has grown so strong with magic, that they bend the world itself to their will? Does that sound megalomanic? Well, as i said i'm german, maybe it's normal for us sound that way...*cough* :>
Govannon can be given other special abilities. The describtions says he trying to spread use of magic to the normal people. Maybe that could be represented by a build-as-long-as-govannon-stays-in-the-city that gives a "whatever-i-don't-know-bonus" to emerging units or the city itself. So - as long as govannon is visiting cities himself, he inspires the people to do get the bonus.
2.)enhancing magic, make it more "magic".
In most of the fantasy settings that exist (im thinking of pen&paper, books, films, etc.) magic is always shown as an art that is difficult to archieve, and an art at which only the fewest can master. But an art that offers great power.
I really like the adept-mage-archmage-system that FFH2 has, it does reflect this ascension very good. But the "maximum" in FFH does not reflect the maximum of power.
Suggestions:
a.)Change their role. FFH and civilization already have siege mechanics, and they already directly attacking units. They dont need another way to do that.
I think the one possibilty to bring magic back as a core aspect of the game is changing it's role. fireballs are if you have no catapults, summons are if you have no champions, enchant weapons is if you have no metal (well, thats only half the truth, it is to make your units even more stronger...)
That makes mages the handymans for everything. They should be more than that.
Even if that hurls a dagger deep into my heart, one possibility would be, reducing mages to PURE buff/debuff bots. They are already on the way to become that. that would not improve mages in the classical sense, but it would grant them a new role in the game, giving them a new right to exist.
However, i would not like to see the diversity of the magic spheres beeing reduced.
2.)Slow down the process. Decrease the variables that define an adepts advance. Why? That would rebalance the game for bringing back the really bad spells. And it would match my imaginations of a big badass archmage smiting cities on his own ;-) So mages would become the Massive damage mechanic of the game.
That would mean - bring in maximum-20%-left-on-the-enemy damage spells, double the strength of the tier3 summons like the elementals (damn it, look at the time i've spend to get that archmage!). They will exist only for one round anyway - time in which a damn level1 assassin could make short process of him.
If the current weakness mages have is not enough, they may be nerfed once again with the "stun" that some other units have.
What do you think about a Tier3 Spell summon that has 20 Str but stuns the caster for 1-2 rounds? That would implicate, the archmage has to use all of his powers to that spell, and be weakened for casting it.
The same for the very strong direct damage spells.
The more i think about the idea, the more i like it.
3.)The ranged attack mechanism is currently not part of FFH2, but it is in FF. Why not making a compromise and giving it only to mages. In FF the force promotion1 does so. So the fireball would be no longer a summon (i never liked that solution, it just misses the point i think) but a ranged attack with a range of 3 and damage of 6 up to a maximum damage of whatever.
Give that ability the icon of a fireball, and voila.
Of course - this could be even a special ability for the amurite mages.
I think, the problem about the fireball is, it is very difficult to balance. Too strong means, at it is tier2, it can be spammed and result in uber-mages. Too weak means it makes battle mages useless - as it is together with the tier2 air spell (i dont remember the name) the only damage spell mages have.
Well, i know that i'm limiting mages to the damage aspect, but im always thinking of "battle mages" or "combat-used-mages" in this topic.
Some other stuff:
- Sheut Stone+Nightmare: Why the units don't get this upgrade in the cities with access to it? would'nt it make sense that an experienced horseman returning from battlefield would like to saddle on his new "horse"-friend?
- a question: is there anyway to get the "heavy" promotion without mutation? i've never seen it yet. in FF at least light is used by the austrid warriors, but what about that one?
Thank you for reading - and thanks for that wonderful mod. I hope you will accept my criticism. Even if it looks like im a bit frustrated of an aspect of the game, im still really happy that this mod exists. You have a really great job.
Thank you
azzedar
thx 4 reply
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
. The cities on the world map screen display this: "city name"
set) and next to it they have that red circle with a line through it. I'm kinda bummed out about this since the Mod is otherwise superb. Is there an option to change this (doubtful) or is this a glitch (probably)? All my base are belong to... nobody apparently.
