[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[cordas]

I am also unsure about the game balance regarding moving from warriors to axe men, in the couple of games I have had I have been able to get axe men early and then dominate the world because they are so superior to warriors.

 

[kevjm]

Are national units going to be changed in 1.0? It seems strange that every religion can get paladins, knights and monks (or at least so many of them). Perhaps they'd be more valuable if there were far fewer of them and they had an overall cap rather than being able to build 3 of each. For example, perhaps camel archers should be weakened and made into a tier 4 unit rather than a national unit (I personally would like to see them completely replaced by light cavalry, or at least require insence- insence only spawns in desert right?). Perhaps paladins or knights should be unique to the order? Immortals unique to the evil religions?

Also, on the religious freedom debate, the order should definately be barred from that one.

EDIT: Or are all national units tier 4 units? :/ The next tier down anyway

 

[woodelf]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but is there any way to implement that once a civ has founded a religion they can't found another? In my current game the Chinese have founded four religions with the Order left to go. My money is on them to get all five!

 

[Kavok]

Is The Order supposed to naturally spread to cities that already have a religion?

I founded the Leaves and it didnt even touch my neighbors cities but as soon as the Aztecs founded The Order it started hopping into my cities and the cities of my neighbors.

 

[imperator_99]

Hi Kael,

Fantastic mod, what a great idea. Can't wait to see all the rest of the stuff you are going to add - particularly in terms of the 'atmospherics', i.e. the technology blurbs and things like that. The idea of having scenarios to form a plot is good too. Have you considered doing like Alpha Centauri and having certain techs or buildings trigger plot developments? Having a more powerful engine like Civ4 would make this heaps more interesting. Keep up the awesome work!

 

[Chalid]

I just duplicated Ortuss Axe... my Immortal was killed reappearing with the axe and the enemy got it too..

EDIT: At the moment i am spreading the Order by Priests. This seems quite overpowerd as my "enemy" is Veil. This allowed me to change all his cities from Veil to Order, kind of better than inquisitioning your enemy. But its better still. It worked in the Veil-Capital .... Now there is no longer any Veil-City...

 

[BlakTooth]

Is The Order supposed to naturally spread to cities that already have a religion?

I founded the Leaves and it didnt even touch my neighbors cities but as soon as the Aztecs founded The Order it started hopping into my cities and the cities of my neighbors.

All of the religions can spread automatically.

However, the Order and the Ashen Veil have much higher spread rates than the other three (simply because they come much later in the game, and need the higher spread to compete).

 

[Xuenay]

I dreamt about FFH today! o_O Am I the first one?

In my dream, I was playing 0.9, and Kael had made an addition he hadn't told us about: the Noble specialists. Each citizen assigned as a Noble would affect the experience level and maintenance cost of the units built in the city. Every noble added 5 XP to the unit's starting experience, but also increased its maintenance cost by one gold. Apparently this represented nobles raising armies to the service of the empire: better-trained and equipped, but at the same time more expensive to maintain. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.

BTW, I loved Loki's ideas for the Military Organization civic.

 

[Kavok]

All of the religions can spread automatically.

However, the Order and the Ashen Veil have much higher spread rates than the other three (simply because they come much later in the game, and need the higher spread to compete).

The Order is auto-spreading to my cities that ALREADY have a religion.

I was under the impression that once a religion was in a city all other religions had to be manually spread to it.

 

[Kael]

eh, apprenticeship, right. didn't even notice

btw I just reread what I wrote and I inadverdantly came out a bit aggressive.
when I say 'when making civics you should etc etc etc' I mean a general 'you', not like, you kael.

You're a genius man, I wouldn't presume to tell you what you should do
only come up with little tidbits that may or may not be relevant.

/group hug

 

[Kael]

Another thing about civics:

City-States always seemed weak to me. Even with the maintenance decrease, i seem to be losing more money with it on than the other way around. The other governmental civics blow it out of the water (even despotism, imho).

Also, Loki, I like your religious tolerance idea. Allows you to keep religious units, but still have an incentive to spread around minor religions. Plus, being tolerant gives that feel-good feeling that everybody likes . Perhaps the tolerance civic would need to be restricted to non-evil civs/religions?

And a gold boost to conquest sounds great too! Perhaps not 50%, but getting extra gold for conquering in the early game would be huge for an early expansive civ (to counter crushing maintenance costs). It'll help the AI too (who loves to switch to conquest even if he's not being particularly agressive).

I add both a boost to city states and a good gain on city flip for conquest to my wish list for 1.0. I will see what I can do.

 

[Kael]

Thats the problem i was facing. Hunters can promote on Shock, Cover and Formation. But none can promote against them. This means they can only be fought on equal terms by other recon-class units. It might be inteded but then recon class units should at least get a Promotion agaist others of their type...

An other trick that would do it is to give hunters and rangers an 20% disatvantage for city attacks or even better give +20 additional defence agaist them with walls.

Great idea, I will do this.

 

[Kael]

Are national units going to be changed in 1.0? It seems strange that every religion can get paladins, knights and monks (or at least so many of them). Perhaps they'd be more valuable if there were far fewer of them and they had an overall cap rather than being able to build 3 of each. For example, perhaps camel archers should be weakened and made into a tier 4 unit rather than a national unit (I personally would like to see them completely replaced by light cavalry, or at least require insence- insence only spawns in desert right?). Perhaps paladins or knights should be unique to the order? Immortals unique to the evil religions?

Also, on the religious freedom debate, the order should definately be barred from that one.

EDIT: Or are all national units tier 4 units? :/ The next tier down anyway

Golems are the t4 non-national units. Though they are strongly handicapped since they can't level.

Their are some religion limitations on Paladins, Eidolon, High Priests and Demon Summoners. I will probably add some limitations based on civc or traits (and allow extras of some units based on the same).

 

[Kael]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but is there any way to implement that once a civ has founded a religion they can't found another? In my current game the Chinese have founded four religions with the Order left to go. My money is on them to get all five!

I could, I have thought about it. But I don't want to kill the strategy of dominating all the religions if you want to.

 

[Kael]

Hi Kael,

Fantastic mod, what a great idea. Can't wait to see all the rest of the stuff you are going to add - particularly in terms of the 'atmospherics', i.e. the technology blurbs and things like that. The idea of having scenarios to form a plot is good too. Have you considered doing like Alpha Centauri and having certain techs or buildings trigger plot developments? Having a more powerful engine like Civ4 would make this heaps more interesting. Keep up the awesome work!

Corlindale wrote all of the tech blurbs, they are awesome (*hint* *hint* send more tech quotes Corlindale)

 

[Kael]

I just duplicated Ortuss Axe... my Immortal was killed reappearing with the axe and the enemy got it too..

Cheater!

EDIT: At the moment i am spreading the Order by Priests. This seems quite overpowerd as my "enemy" is Veil. This allowed me to change all his cities from Veil to Order, kind of better than inquisitioning your enemy. But its better still. It worked in the Veil-Capital .... Now there is no longer any Veil-City...

Double cheater!!!

Seriously both of these things need to be fixed. I will work on them.

 

[Kael]

The Order is auto-spreading to my cities that ALREADY have a religion.

I was under the impression that once a religion was in a city all other religions had to be manually spread to it.

That isn't true. Religions spread regardless of what religions a city already has.

 

[woodelf]

I could, I have thought about it. But I don't want to kill the strategy of dominating all the religions if you want to.

What about making some Mutually Exclusive? Hard to fathom founding the Order and the Veil, isn't it? I'm not sure if the Runes, Fellowship, and Overlords are polar opposites though. Maybe it was simply a bad game with an Uber-scientific AI.

 

[Kael]

I dreamt about FFH today! o_O Am I the first one?

In my dream, I was playing 0.9, and Kael had made an addition he hadn't told us about: the Noble specialists. Each citizen assigned as a Noble would affect the experience level and maintenance cost of the units built in the city. Every noble added 5 XP to the unit's starting experience, but also increased its maintenance cost by one gold. Apparently this represented nobles raising armies to the service of the empire: better-trained and equipped, but at the same time more expensive to maintain. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.

BTW, I loved Loki's ideas for the Military Organization civic.

This is going to come up in a therpy session someday.

 

[loki1232]

Regarding Mages - I would hesitate to make them defensive, as this would make it far harder to get them more xp. (Well unless I am cheating by having my mages kill stuff so they can cast more spells per turn)

Another thing regarding XP would it be possible to boost the amount of XP gained by killing Giants, in the early game they are extremely difficult (expensive) to kill yet only garner a couple of XP, I would make them 5 or 6 xp.

I agree on both accounts. However, at one point I had my mage kill something, and then he stopped being able to cast.