[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[loki1232]

I love these ideas. I may make them into traits instead of civics though. I really like the Scorched Earth and Pirate Raids ones.

Thank you.

Another one I didn't think of in time--
Naval Supremacy:
All naval units get +5 XP.
+20% naval production.
+2 trade routes per costal city.
Land units -10% production.
High Upkeep.

 

[Kavok]

1. I really like that idea for the other aspects of the game. Don't forget military though...

2. Nice idea. What if each religion had a bunch of wonders that gave abilities based on the religion, but also balanced in the same way as Sevo's.

I think the key idea here should be that once you build one of a certain group of wonders you can't touch the others. Its an interesting way to detail how your civ or religion is run.

 

[BlakTooth]

IMO they still need a bit of work.

1. Conquest should give +2 XP, not one. The idea is that their units start with one promotion so they can more easily conquer their enemies.

2. Free religion changed to atheism. No state. No spread of non-state. +2 unhappiness per state religion. Can build inquisitors without a dungeon. +25% science.

3. Aristocracy give +1 unit supported per city. That's the number of fat lords needed to rule it.

4. Sacrifice the weak give +1 unhappiness. The ashen veil spreads faster with it.

5. Scholarship is too weak. Should have +2 happiness from library, and +2 from great library.

6. Pacifism gives +100% GP rate. That's its only point.

7. Mercantilism should get +100% trade route yeilds instead of the +10% gold. Isn't that the whole point of it?

8. Foreign trade should get a science boost, not a culture boost. Many hands make light work.

9. Theocracy should get +10 military unit production.

more once i think of it.

1) I agree with this. Conquest needs the boost.

2) This sounds very interesting! Some more adds:

-Civs without Atheism dislike civs with Atheism (nobody likes their religious brothers getting wiped out of a civilization)

-Atheism allows you to draft Anti-religion shock troops from religiously cleansed cities. These troops would probably have bonuses against healers and all religious units.To do this, you'll probably want to restrict Nationhood to only the Order (so only one of the draft options will be available to the cities at a time).


-Also, another way to modify this civic would be to change it into: Worship of the Lunotaar. It would work like free religion does currently (bonuses for multiple religions) and it would allow access to a new unit/wonder.


3) Aristocracy is already plenty good. My favorite governmental civic atm.

4) Don't think this is needed. The bonus cash is the tradeoff you get for keeping unhealthy cities into the late game.

5) Agree with this, scholarship needs buffing bigtime

6) Agree with this as well. If not 100%, at least find some compromise value, because as it is, pacifism is muccchhh weaker in Ffh than vanilla.

7) Sounds alright

8) I disagree here. Foreign trade sparks cultures to intermingle.

9) Cool.

 

[Jono]

Am I the only one who's noticed that some of the civs listed by Kael start with the techs that reveal religions? I thought you didn't want to force it on the races ^^

 

[Kael]

Am I the only one who's noticed that some of the civs listed by Kael start with the techs that reveal religions? I thought you didn't want to force it on the races ^^

The Elves don't have to follow the fellowship if they don't want to. But no one will beat them to Elven Studies if they are in the game.

 

[Leitmotif]

Wait, can Veil Inquisitors cure disease?

 

[Sisonpyh]

The Elves don't have to follow the fellowship if they don't want to. But no one will beat them to Elven Studies if they are in the game.

Ok, Pirates sound completely awesome. So civs are planned for phase 2 then? Also, any plans on adding more religions?

 

[Lightzy]

christ, civics should be interesting choices that complement strategy. tools for dealing with deficiencies in certain areas of your empire.
they shouldn't be the end-all completely overpowering make-or-break strategies..

thats why aristocracy is my favorite civic of any that I ever saw in civ4.
You got lots of farms, lots of food, but you're losing money?
ok, sacrifice the food and get some extra money. its a big tradeoff and its not always good, but it is useful for dealing with a certain situation, for a time, and at a price.


I think that when making civics, you shouldn't just think 'ok, this civic is the best civic in this category for players who want to go to war'. It shouldn't be that simple to choose a civic.
They should have a penalty in the same area as their bonus, so that the choice isn't so obvious.

Scholarship is a good example.
Your military units are stronger, but are more expensive. its good for combat, but only for a certain kind of conflict (say, if your enemy is big on melee units and you REALLY need the shock promotion for your units).

Civics should be like scholarship and aristocracy.

 

[Janusi]

I might be mistaken but didn't the Caraval have a cargo hold in .8? I discovered yesterday that I can't transport anything now in a Caraval which makes the unit rather useless.

 

[cordas]

Cheers, just wanting to say thanks for this great mod, I know its a work in progress but I am mightily impressed by what I have seen so far.

One thing that I have found some difficulty with is dealing with the tech path, it seems very confused at the moment and I have found it hard to follow a religion and its upgrades (great idea), is it possible to link these so its easier to see how to follow a path? Also I have seen discrepencies between what is available in the drop down menu for new techs and what is available if I go into the tech tree.

 

[loki1232]

Ok, Pirates sound completely awesome. So civs are planned for phase 2 then? Also, any plans on adding more religions?

The pirates weree what made me think of the Piracy civic.

 

[loki1232]

2) This sounds very interesting! Some more adds:

-Civs without Atheism dislike civs with Atheism (nobody likes their religious brothers getting wiped out of a civilization)

-Atheism allows you to draft Anti-religion shock troops from religiously cleansed cities. These troops would probably have bonuses against healers and all religious units.To do this, you'll probably want to restrict Nationhood to only the Order (so only one of the draft options will be available to the cities at a time).

3) Aristocracy is already plenty good. My favorite governmental civic atm.

4) Don't think this is needed. The bonus cash is the tradeoff you get for keeping unhealthy cities into the late game.

5) Agree with this, scholarship needs buffing bigtime

6) Agree with this as well. If not 100%, at least find some compromise value, because as it is, pacifism is muccchhh weaker in Ffh than vanilla.

7) Sounds alright

8) I disagree here. Foreign trade sparks cultures to intermingle.

9) Cool.

2) Nice ideas, i just wasn't sur weather an atheistic civ would be militaristic or peacefull. I guess in FfH they'd probably be militaristic, so your suggestions are valid.

3) K

4) Maybe it should increase the amount of demons summoned as GP's in your cities?

5) Maybe also get a bonus from Catacomus Libralus?

6) 75% perhaps?

7) I really want to see a civ with a trade route based economy. That's why mercantilism is here!

8) Maybe a small (+5%) science boost as well then? Foreign trade definetly helps science.

9) Or maybe theocracy would double the effects of your gov civic in places where you had the state religion? That would be its only effect, but wouldn't that be fun?

 

[Ajaxxx]

Have tried the Multiplayer in FFH and have had some sucess in a 3 way game..many lockups and OOS issues however...sometimes it works sometimes we can't see each others games...not sure why..would like to try it on Direct IP but can't seem to figure out how to hook up that way...what is the format that the game wants when it asks for your network address?

 

[Chalid]

So played the last two days and found some minors.

a) "Protect the meek" needs Order-state religion? Had a fellowship guy (Ashoka) change to this civic.

b) Horsemen get defense bonuses and can fortify. I think they should not.
c) AI used conjurers this way: Conjure Elemental -> Attack with Elemental (died) -> Attack with Conjurer(died).
Conjurers, Mages (and probably Priests) should get "Defend only" that the AI cannot suicide them.
d) Rangers are very strong for their era, as there is no promotion against them. You could add +10% against their class for both Shock and Cover Promotions, so that you would need both to get a real edge on them.
e) Priests are a bit strong it seems. An enemy used tons of them to defend his cities and to attack. It might be that the reason was, that he had neither copper or iron.

f) The code for temple distribution is somehow weird, hat 2 temples next to each other and the next one 2 squares away on a continets map.
g) Same for reagents, did not have any in this map. As they are so essential what about a World Wonder "Great Transmutation" or something that gives 2 of them.

Oh and Orthus is quite cool... He was on an island ruling three barb citys and when i Alt-clicked him in the forest his strength calculated to something like 21.0. Was quite a fight to get him down.. Sadly I missed that Werwolf.

 

[Kael]

To Loki and Blaktooth, thanks for the civic feedback. I think between the two of you you came up with some great tweaks. Based on your feedback I am going to make the following changes in 1.0:

1. Conquest xp will be increased from +1 to +2.

2. Instead of the happiness bonus from buildings from scholorship, what if I have all of the specialist scientists give +1 Research?

3. I will go with 75% Great Person growth rate for Pacifism.

4. I might see if I can get Theocracy to give a production bonus to disciples (maybe demons too for the veil) and a minor production penalty to other unit types. Let me see what I can do.

I am still on the fence with Free Religion, I know it needs to be changed, I just can't find the right thing to change it too. "Modify Free Religion civic" is on the change list for 1.0 I just gotta figure out what to do.

 

[Kael]

Ok, Pirates sound completely awesome. So civs are planned for phase 2 then? Also, any plans on adding more religions?

Yes and Yes.

 

[Kael]

christ, civics should be interesting choices that complement strategy. tools for dealing with deficiencies in certain areas of your empire.
they shouldn't be the end-all completely overpowering make-or-break strategies..

thats why aristocracy is my favorite civic of any that I ever saw in civ4.
You got lots of farms, lots of food, but you're losing money?
ok, sacrifice the food and get some extra money. its a big tradeoff and its not always good, but it is useful for dealing with a certain situation, for a time, and at a price.


I think that when making civics, you shouldn't just think 'ok, this civic is the best civic in this category for players who want to go to war'. It shouldn't be that simple to choose a civic.
They should have a penalty in the same area as their bonus, so that the choice isn't so obvious.

Scholarship is a good example.
Your military units are stronger, but are more expensive. its good for combat, but only for a certain kind of conflict (say, if your enemy is big on melee units and you REALLY need the shock promotion for your units).

Civics should be like scholarship and aristocracy.

I agree, but instead of Scholorship you mean to say Apprenticeship. Those are my 2 favorite civics too. I also like God-king and City States for the same reason that they are very helpful if used at the right time.

 

[Kael]

I might be mistaken but didn't the Caraval have a cargo hold in .8? I discovered yesterday that I can't transport anything now in a Caraval which makes the unit rather useless.

Oops. I will fix that in 1.0.

 

[Kael]

Cheers, just wanting to say thanks for this great mod, I know its a work in progress but I am mightily impressed by what I have seen so far.

One thing that I have found some difficulty with is dealing with the tech path, it seems very confused at the moment and I have found it hard to follow a religion and its upgrades (great idea), is it possible to link these so its easier to see how to follow a path? Also I have seen discrepencies between what is available in the drop down menu for new techs and what is available if I go into the tech tree.

I will go through that before I release 1.0.

1.0 is all about tuning and cosmetic changes. It won't as many new features as the previous versions. Its really just the polished version of 0.90. So I hope to get all of the work like this done for 1.0.

 

[Kael]

So played the last two days and found some minors.

a) "Protect the meek" needs Order-state religion? Had a fellowship guy (Ashoka) change to this civic.

Protect the meek is granted by the same tech that founds the religion but it doesn't require the religion.

b) Horsemen get defense bonuses and can fortify. I think they should not.

You are correct, I will change in 1.0.

c) AI used conjurers this way: Conjure Elemental -> Attack with Elemental (died) -> Attack with Conjurer(died).
Conjurers, Mages (and probably Priests) should get "Defend only" that the AI cannot suicide them.

I have the wrong Unit AI's assigned, they are set for city attack and collateral, but I have since removed those abilities. I will switch them to Reserve AI and see if the computer uses them better. If that doesn't work I will make them defensive like you suggest.

d) Rangers are very strong for their era, as there is no promotion against them. You could add +10% against their class for both Shock and Cover Promotions, so that you would need both to get a real edge on them.

Its part of the recon design that there is no promotion against them. But I may lower the ranger strength.

e) Priests are a bit strong it seems. An enemy used tons of them to defend his cities and to attack. It might be that the reason was, that he had neither copper or iron.

Some civs are also set to favor religious units. I don't think priests are overpowered.

f) The code for temple distribution is somehow weird, hat 2 temples next to each other and the next one 2 squares away on a continets map.

K, I pushed it a bit so that they won't be as likely to pop rihgt next to each other.

g) Same for reagents, did not have any in this map. As they are so essential what about a World Wonder "Great Transmutation" or something that gives 2 of them.

Oh and Orthus is quite cool... He was on an island ruling three barb citys and when i Alt-clicked him in the forest his strength calculated to something like 21.0. Was quite a fight to get him down.. Sadly I missed that Werwolf.

Reagents, why do you vex me so! I dont want to add the wonder because I want to force players to have to go out and trade or fight for it on some maps. But that assumes that it is there to trade or fight for! I will work on it.