[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Samael]

I'm liking the sound of this

I feel perhaps that the disease may remain behind after the unit leaves- maybe indefinitely, maybe for a few turns, potentially claiming a couple of citizens in the process?

However, to produce a temporary building for something just 'passing through', might be appropriate for Typhoid Mary or Diseased Corpses, perhaps, whilst a full swing (and potentially apocalyptic) epidemic may require something more long-temp/permanent (unless combatted with some other building, perhaps?).

 

[loki1232]

There are a million ways to do it, here is one example:

A disease promotion placed on random units, the code would cycle through every unit and giv it a certain chance to apply the promotion. Then you would add a check in the onMove event to see if the unit moved into a city. If he did the code creates a building in the city that gives whatever health and happiness penalty you want. If the building already exists you could have it drop a different even nastier building, if that one exists.. etc etc. The buildings would be cleaned up if the untis leave the city (if they havent infected all of the other units int he city by then).

You could tie the passing of the disease to the onMove event too, so all it would take is for a unit to walk through a tile to give other units in the tile a chance of catching the disease.

Okay, as long as it affects the player and the ai equally.

 

[Kael]

Okay, as long as it affects the player and the ai equally.

Loki! I am having to go through all the units tonight and update their pedia entires. I blame you because half of these units were your idea.

 

[loki1232]

Loki! I am having to go through all the units tonight and update their pedia entires. I blame you because half of these units were your idea.

Lol, loki's revenge.

Have we decided on a suitable bonus for killing heros? I really think that they killer should automatically double their XP.

Also, I've just been reading George Martin's Song of Fire and Ice books, and it seems to me that having a diplomacy actions such as "Promise Family Marraige" could be very fun for diplomacy.
Maybe it would increase relations, but if you ever broke a deal with them it would really hurt, and royal marraiges would be harder to make later.

 

[Samael]

I really think that they killer should automatically double their XP.

Considering in my present game, I have an Orthus Axe toting Maceman presently with 156 XP, I don't know if it'd be too fair to double it if we were to slay a freshly made hero.

 

[loki1232]

Considering in my present game, I have an Orthus Axe toting Maceman presently with 156 XP, I don't know if it'd be too fair to double it if we were to slay a freshly made hero.

Yeah, I thought about this problem when i made that previous post. The only unit likely to kill a hero will probably already have a ton of XP.
Maybe the hero killer would instead gain the Heroic promotion?

Also, I erally think that the XP from barbs should stop somewhere, perhaps at 100?

 

[Kael]

Yeah, I thought about this problem when i made that previous post. The only unit likely to kill a hero will probably already have a ton of XP.
Maybe the hero killer would instead gain the Heroic promotion?

Also, I erally think that the XP from barbs should stop somewhere, perhaps at 100?

Okay, barbarian and animal xp stoped at 100.

 

[loki1232]

Um you think you could have more animals at once? I played a game where i saw only a few, but i guess it was an argipelago...

 

[loki1232]

Okay, barbarian and animal xp stoped at 100.

But Maybe orthus always gives some XP?

 

[Samael]

Also, I erally think that the XP from barbs should stop somewhere, perhaps at 100?

I'd agree, though a lot of experience came from the fact the unit in question was teamed up with a couple of others and just about wiped out Mongolia in the game ^^;

 

[The Bramble]

Any chance you could take a second look at the Civic upkeep costs? There are more categories in vanilla civ, and even the medium upkeep ones add up quickly. I can't remember ever having to pay more than 30 or 40 gold for that aspect of upkeep in vanilla Civ (I think), but at this point I'm paying more than 120 gold a turn, even having selected the options that cost the less and give me back the most money!

Also, a very minor complaint, but I think the city religion icons need to be brightened or have their color adjusted. Kilmore symbols are hard to see in tundra cities, and OO symbols are hard to see in plains cities. In fact the only symbol I can easily pick out without looking hard is for the Veil.

Also my Orthos Axe-equipped level 15 Hero was just killed by a sneaky Ranger Heroes are great though, as a player I get really attached to the ones I've spent time cultivating , and they always manage to make me go "Wow! How did he do that?" when they do something unexpected, like when I just saw Duin Halfmoon turn an enemy into a werewolf a minute ago.

 

[Kael]

Any chance you could take a second look at the Civic upkeep costs? There are more categories in vanilla civ, and even the medium upkeep ones add up quickly. I can't remember ever having to pay more than 30 or 40 gold for that aspect of upkeep in vanilla Civ (I think), but at this point I'm paying more than 120 gold a turn, even having selected the options that cost the less and give me back the most money!

Also, a very minor complaint, but I think the city religion icons need to be brightened or have their color adjusted. Kilmore symbols are hard to see in tundra cities, and OO symbols are hard to see in plains cities. In fact the only symbol I can easily pick out without looking hard is for the Veil.

Also my Orthos Axe-equipped level 15 Hero was just killed by a sneaky Ranger Heroes are great though, as a player I get really attached to the ones I've spent time cultivating , and they always manage to make me go "Wow! How did he do that?" when they do something unexpected, like when I just saw Duin Halfmoon turn an enemy into a werewolf a minute ago.

There are 2 more Civic categories than are in vanilla civ, but they both have a 0 upkeep option. If those options are selected the cost should be the same as normal. In fact the low upkeep cost is actually lower than vanilla civ (and the high upkeep cost is higher).

And I agree on the religion icons. But I would have to go into the gamefont files to change that, and after spending several nights even getting the gamefont files to work. Im not touching them anytime soon. When I eventually do have to go into the gamefont file I will try to make the religious icons show up better.

And I am glad you are enjoying the heroes. I always love hearing about people forming an emotional attachments to aspects of the game.

 

[Secular]

About the barb xp. I agree that maybe it should be limmited but it seems kinda unrewarding to get your city's hammered by barbs and not even get your 1 xp a kill outa it.

 

[Lunargent]

I decided to see about tackling the tech tree a bit. I made a (messy) diagram of it based upon how many techs you have to research to get to a certain tech. Some things I discovered:

Strength of will requires Summoning and Arcane Lore. But Arcane Lore already requires summoning.

Guilds is the third hardest tech to get because you have to research 23 prior techs to open it up. I think if you removed the Poisons requirement, it might be a bit more reasonable. I'm almost always getting this near last or not at all.

Also, I think you meant to use OR requirements instead of AND requirements everywhere. For example, Currency should be Mathematics OR Trade, not Math AND trade, IMO. The Vanilla game is set up using OR reqs, which makes it much more flexible.
I want to try my hand at cleaning up the tree a bit. One of the main reasons that I made this diagram is so that I could have a chance at doing so, or at least help you to do so. The other reason is so that people can see where they want to research ahead of time easier.

If you want, and you have firefox, I can send you the original file which allows you to move the techs around like cards.

 

[Chip56]

Kael some ideas for new armagedon spells:
One that slowly improves Land in your borders
One thats slowly makes terrain worse in outside (Gras->Tundra->Ice)
Flood the land& dry out the sea were already mentioned short ago
Maybe make dragons horde a armagedon spells that enables the constroction of dragons for all players like manhattan projekt.

 

[kevjm]

I still like my dawn of the dead idea

 

[loki1232]

Kael some ideas for new armagedon spells:
One that slowly improves Land in your borders
One thats slowly makes terrain worse in outside (Gras->Tundra->Ice)
Flood the land& dry out the sea were already mentioned short ago
Maybe make dragons horde a armagedon spells that enables the constroction of dragons for all players like manhattan projekt.

Genesis is the land improver.
I guess that Entropy unbound is planning to destroy the map, so it is the worse terrain one.
I like the dragon one, but I would prefer if dragons are just normal units that you get a limited number of each game.

 

[Chalid]

I think it was diskussed before but is there a kind of space-ship victory planned as this is the victory type the AI is best able to handle?

While flipping throug the code for the victory-conditions screens i thought of an Spell of Mastery like in good old Masters of Magic. You might have to build a spellcomponent for some selectet - or even all - magic spheres that combine to the powerfull spell of mastery granting you controll of all magic in the world and therfor the victory....
Of course it shall be quite hard to archieve the needed ressources and prerequisites but the danger of someone else finishing the spell of mastery will speed the endgame up and possibly provides a good reason to fire some armagedon spells.

 

[Chalid]

I like the dragon one, but I would prefer if dragons are just normal units that you get a limited number of each game.

Wenn the SDK and new models become available the war strategies should be reconsidered.
Until now we have an uniform combat througout the game where primary 5 classes (melee, ranged, mage, mounted, recon) of units with different abitities but all being similar powerfull fight each other. The main difference between the tiers (and therfor the ongoing Game) is the increasing strenght of the units. In contrast vanilla civ gives several breaks in strategy, where the strongest is with the development of tanks and aircrafts, suddenly speeding up the wars tenfold.

I'd like it if FfH would provide similar Eras where combat has completly different styles. This could be archived by making one type of units especially strong in each era. For exampel this could look the following:
- In the beginning the warriors and scouts.
- Then a short period where mounted units are the best choice. Possibly there are no walls and no strong anti-mounted units yet? So this allows some short bloddy wars at the beginning of the game.
- The next time period might be controlled by Melee troops that slowly march into the enemy territory followed by strong siege engines. City defence should be quite strong at this time.
- At least one Era will be completly contolled by the Mages softening enemy cities with their spells and allowing your troops to storm the weakened cities without mercy and quite quick as you have not to wait for your sieges.
- Then there could be an time where airunits are build and very quick wars can be fought. But on the other hand magic resistant units will make mages less powerfull.
- The next Era ranged units might be boostet, possibly some more common gunpowder units that have very good defence agains air units. Thus forcing the main troops back to the ground and slowing the final progress. In this final Era all troops become valid choices as there is a counterstrategy for every unit.

Of course these ideas have to be closely examined as they need much balancing and will have to go with major redesigns of the tech tree. Additionally the promotions available to some of the units will have to be reworked.
But in combination with the races that could have UU which are in contast to the dominating unit of the respective Era it might enhace strategy a lot.

Speaking of Races.. the design doc doesnt show a race of giants... that is something i would like very much.. Very powerfull at the beginning but slow in technological advance and only a very small choice of units - primary melee - availabe.

 

[Kael]

I decided to see about tackling the tech tree a bit. I made a (messy) diagram of it based upon how many techs you have to research to get to a certain tech. Some things I discovered:

Strength of will requires Summoning and Arcane Lore. But Arcane Lore already requires summoning.

Guilds is the third hardest tech to get because you have to research 23 prior techs to open it up. I think if you removed the Poisons requirement, it might be a bit more reasonable. I'm almost always getting this near last or not at all.

Also, I think you meant to use OR requirements instead of AND requirements everywhere. For example, Currency should be Mathematics OR Trade, not Math AND trade, IMO. The Vanilla game is set up using OR reqs, which makes it much more flexible.
I want to try my hand at cleaning up the tree a bit. One of the main reasons that I made this diagram is so that I could have a chance at doing so, or at least help you to do so. The other reason is so that people can see where they want to research ahead of time easier.

If you want, and you have firefox, I can send you the original file which allows you to move the techs around like cards.

I am trying to work on the tech tree here too. I have cut Pottery and Music in 1.0 (pottery boosts went to agriculture and music boosts went to drama). Also Code of Laws requires Religious Law instead fo Priesthood, so the whole Code of Laws line (constitution, liberalism) comes earlier and is cheaper.

The and's are intentional, otherwise you would be able to get to the t4 units after researching 4 techs.

I will play with your diagram and see, its good timing because I am trying to improve the tech tree for 1.0 anyway.

I'm playign with your chart and I like it (man are the techs a mess). I removed the unneeded summoning requirement on arcane knowledge like you suggsted and Im still playing with it.