[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

^^
Look what i found.
That would be good for Fellowship of leaves to prevent the abuse of planting workers

Sevo is such a stud. I make have to talk to him about incorporating that in phase 2.

 

[kevjm]

I think it would be very interesting if you could built a unit like bamur that can give units a few promotions for gold.
I know that this would be in the moment only good in a great stack but once there is the SDK im sure you could make it for single units.
I would like it to improve a small army by investing cold instead of build more and more units

Could be a possible great commander option(s)

 

[loki1232]

^^
Look what i found.
That would be good for Fellowship of leaves to prevent the abuse of planting workers

1. Good find. That modification smells of the SDK though...
2. This could certainly be the way that we stop the fellowship from abusing forests.
3. OMG. What if forests planted and worked by the Fellowship eventually became ancient forests, at which point they gave food, gold, and shield bonuses.

 

[loki1232]

Could be a possible great commander option(s)

Very possibly, but in my opinion they already have enough options.

 

[loki1232]

1. Genesis can't really counter blight because it always comes before. The only partial counter to blight is running your druids around revitalizing the land, but that doesn't bring back your lost rice paddies and wheat feilds, and it's a tactic that the AI can't follow yet as you've pointed out before. The end result of blight seems to be that everyone gets initially nocked back to about 50% of their original population or less, then I manage to recover to about 75% by micro managing my workers and druids, while the AI cities continue to starve.

2. Blight should trigger war just like Armageddon does, because it is the tactical equivalent of nuking every city in the game. It should carry a diplomatic hit as if each city over size 12 was nuked. No AI should stand for having their cities and population devastated without taking action.

3. One more thing: I'm not sure that blight is melting any ice as stated in the description. I'm going to open a before and after save just to be sure, but it did not seem to me that any squares of ice terrain were changed. Maybe it only affects sea ice? My current game is a lakes map, and there was little to none of that to start with.

1. What you do is get genesis down to just one turn, then build blight and one turn after blight finish genesis.

2. Indeed it should.

3. Wierd. It should be melting some land ice as well.

 

[kandalf]

When is the SDK supposed to come out? I thought it was supposed to come out in January.

Also, good find! That forest system sounds very good.

 

[loki1232]

A couple more things to say?!?

1. Random events can mean a lot of things. You could say that Orthus is kind of a random event, ambeit there isn't much random about the time he shows up (although he doesn't show up in all game).

2. I do plan on having natural disasters, but these will probably be keyed to another event, and won't truely be "random". For example, there is an Armageddon spell called Hellstorm that Loki wrote up that starts forest fires and has a chance of creating volcanoes. I would rather use volcanic events in a situation like that instead of random occurances. Partially because it makes the armageddon spell that much more impressive and partially because I hate to have a player lose a strategy game just because of bad luck.

3. And the same with the non-combat units you suggested. I like the idea but I would rather have them as player controlled entities. Someone suggested allowing units to go to rival cities and build religious "mission houses" that provide some benifit to the building civ (the the civ that owns the city). I put that in my idea list for Phase 2 and I hope to do something like that. It could be very similiar to what you describe, but in a player controlled fashion.

4. I am hoping for a new tile set for the Hell map. There is an armageddon spell palnned that would begin to merge the hell and earth maps, causing rivers of blood and other features of the hell terrain to begin to seep into the earth map.

There is also an Aramgeddon spell planned that causes the world to drop into an ice age (Loki wrote this one too) similiar to what you describe. A slow freezing of the world for the edges of the map in.

1. Quests should be random events.

2. Also, many spells will be like natural disasters. ie: Tsunami

3. That is a very nice idea. Would you be getting the bonus, or the person who's city it was though?

4. Also, I think that every time you summon a demon, transport someone through an obsidian gate, or build Bane divine it should increase the merging of planes a little.

 

[loki1232]

Yes, you could remove gold when you use Bamburs ability (or a similiar ability).

You could also have a building that allowed a knight upgrade that is exactly like a knight but has an additional promotion (like Zuuls extra defence but lower speed promotion).

I kinda dislike this idea because it means that having a high productino isn't that important as long as you have a lot of gold and food. Also, except in special circumstances i think that battle is really the only test for units.

Don't worry, in Phase two there will be lots of quests that give you chances for experience and better units (now you'll have to actually fight a dragon to get his horde)

 

[Chip56]

I kinda dislike this idea because it means that having a high productino isn't that important as long as you have a lot of gold and food. Also, except in special circumstances i think that battle is really the only test for units.

Always depends on the costs of this skill.
I dont think of unlimited exp or an unlimited set of promtion.
Only a couple of promotions would be possible to choice
But it would give you the choice if you want a bit stronger units or more.

 

[Kael]

I kinda dislike this idea because it means that having a high productino isn't that important as long as you have a lot of gold and food. Also, except in special circumstances i think that battle is really the only test for units.

Don't worry, in Phase two there will be lots of quests that give you chances for experience and better units (now you'll have to actually fight a dragon to get his horde)

Yeah me too, I was just answering his question. I would be more apt to create a civic option that granted the bonus's or a building that passed them out automatically. I don't think I want the game to be that granular that you spend time buying abilities for individual units.

 

[loki1232]

Always depends on the costs of this skill.
I dont think of unlimited exp or an unlimited set of promtion.
Only a couple of promotions would be possible to choice
But it would give you the choice if you want a bit stronger units or more.

Maybe this could combine with equipment. Once you got access to iron, you could upgrade all of your existing archers to have iron arrows for a small cost.

 

[Kael]

1. Quests should be random events.

2. Also, many spells will be like natural disasters. ie: Tsunami

3. That is a very nice idea. Would you be getting the bonus, or the person who's city it was though?

4. Also, I think that every time you summon a demon, transport someone through an obsidian gate, or build Bane divine it should increase the merging of planes a little.

Quests will be random within a certain context. We would differentiate between early game, mid game and late game quests. I'd like to build some structure for them. But I do want them to be random in that most quests wont even be possible in most games. The game may randomly pick 8-10 quests from a pool of 30-40 that are offered during the game. That way each time you play its a bit different.

I have the following exampels I jotted in my idea list, they are just ideas that will have to balanced out when we start the phase 2 work:

Buildings that provide a benifit if built in rival cities

1. A Mission House that provides additional gold to the owner of the holy city for the matching religion.

2. Market buildings? Make the weaponsmith buildable in rival cities, they get the quality weapons promotions, you get gold every turn?

3. Propaganda buildings that raise the cities chance of flipping to you.

4. An embassy that raises your relationship with that civ.

 

[Lunargent]

^^
Look what i found.
That would be good for Fellowship of leaves to prevent the abuse of planting workers

I thought the plan for phaseII was to have the Fellowship be unable to chop forests, but to be able to build things in them instead, and maybe route trade trough them without roads. Did this change?

 

[Kael]

I thought the plan for phaseII was to have the Fellowship be unable to chop forests, but to be able to build things in them instead, and maybe route trade trough them without roads. Did this change?

The elven civ is unable to chop forests and can improve on top of forests. That isnt going to be a restriction on the religion.

 

[Lunargent]

1. What you do is get genesis down to just one turn, then build blight and one turn after blight finish genesis.

2. Indeed it should.

3. Wierd. It should be melting some land ice as well.

The problem with this strategy is that if you don't built Genesis as soon as you can, the computer will. Sabotoging every AI constantly who wants to build it would bankrupt you. Unless you are playing on a lower difficulty level, there's almost no way you are going to be so far ahead of the AI on tech that you've researched Omniscience and Armageddon and Divine Right and completed Blight before any AI finishes Genesis.

I picked a city with land and sea ice ( the only one with sea ice on this lakes map) and counted squares.

Before: 7 squares of land ice and 3 of sea ice

After: 7 squares of land ice and no squares of sea ice.

Some of the nearby tundra turned to desert, but that's it as far as land modification.

 

[Lunargent]

The elven civ is unable to chop forests and can improve on top of forests. That isnt going to be a restriction on the religion.

Ahh, makes sense now.

 

[loki1232]

Buildings that provide a benifit if built in rival cities

1. A Mission House that provides additional gold to the owner of the holy city for the matching religion.

2. Market buildings? Make the weaponsmith buildable in rival cities, they get the quality weapons promotions, you get gold every turn?

3. Propaganda buildings that raise the cities chance of flipping to you.

4. An embassy that raises your relationship with that civ.

1. Nice. Maybe also makes the religion spread faster?

2. Maybe something like that if you had a resoruce they didn't. Instead of making a formal diplomacy agreement, you would just leave it up to your citizens to get you some gold.

3. Nice idea. Maybe increases the city's unhappiness from war, religion, and sacrificing population as well.

4. Embassy's should also increase chances of spy missions suceeding.

 

[loki1232]

The elven civ is unable to chop forests and can improve on top of forests. That isnt going to be a restriction on the religion.

Also, please allow someone to have free trade routes through forests. We beg of you.

 

[TheNewSaint]

Hey Kael, have you checked out upgrading buildings?
Like Townhall-->Keep-->Castle
It could add a lot to your mod, I think.
Anyway check it out here.

 

[Kael]

Hey Kael, have you checked out upgrading buildings?
Like Townhall-->Keep-->Castle
It could add a lot to your mod, I think.
Anyway check it out here.

I tend to prefer to have 3 seperate buildings that each give +2 xp rather than a building that upgrades that gives +2 xp, then +4 then +6 (as Mylon mentions in the thread). Plus it forces new cities to go through the process of building the starter buildings instead of jumping right to the end building.

So if you have researched the tech that allows you to build castles, should a new city be able to build a castle? Or should they have to build a townhall, then a keep, then a castle? I generally think its simplier to allow them to go straight to the castle.

I do use some building requirements in the mod (a tavern requires a brewery) but I don't delete the building they require.

The only place I could see using something like this is if I offered a dual path. So a Temple of the Order could be upgraded to a Cathedral of Light or a Bastion of Law. And each building gave seperate benifits. And since each would destory the origional temple, and block new temples from being built you would have to pick which you wanted in the city. Thats the only use I could for building upgrades, and even with that Im generally looking to simplify the build lists, not complicate them.

Maybe I will do something like that with the Palace, to let players customize their capital.