[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

I agree that adding more is always better than not adding more.
Luckily, we already have those incredible design docs to tell us what to add.

Speaking of which, if you have any more of them would you mind posting them?

Its 27 pages of ideas (not always coherant) and some of the stuff I do want to keep private until I have a chance to implement. I think I have some interesting ideas and I don't want to see them floating into other mods before I have a chance to implement, catty as that may sound.

But I don't mind sharing some stuff. Here is the current spell list:

Air Sphere
1. Wind Wall- Makes ranged attacks 50% unlikely to hit the caster or units in the casters tile
2. Conjure Air Elemental- Summons an Air Elemental for 1 turn
3. Chain Lightning- Summons a strength 12 lightning bolt that has the Blitz promotion

Body Sphere
1. Circle of Being- Allows the Caster to give health to target unit
2. Regeneration- Speeds the target units healing
3. Stoneskin- Makes the unit immune to the next 50 points of dmg

Chaos Sphere
1. Confusion- Unit behaves randomly for the next turn
2. Rage- Unit becomes a Barbarian unit
3. Reversal of Fortune- Gives a bonus to target unit relative to strength difference between it and higher strength opponents

Creation Sphere
+1. Bloom- Creates a Forest
+2. Vitalize the Land- Snow turns into Tundra, Tundra turns into Plains, Plains turns into Grass, Grass turns into Forest
3. ?			

Death Sphere
1. Raise Skeleton- Summons a Skeleton
2. Contagion- Does damage and disease 50% of the units in the effected tile
3. Summon Wraith- Summons a Wraith

Dimensional Sphere
1. Escape- Returns the unit to the capital
2. Shadow Walk- Teleports the unit to any city that has an Obsidion Gate
3. Teleport- Teleports the unit to any revealed tile

Earth Sphere
1. Wall of Stone- Grants the city a temporary Wall building
+2. Conjure Earth Elemental- Summons an Earth Elemental for 1 turn
3. Earthquake- Destroys buildings and improvements

Enchantment Sphere
1. ?			
2. ?			
3. ?			

Entropy Sphere
1. Defile- Curses the tile, giving negative production and health effects.
2. Enervation- Decreases the targets level by 1, reduces experience, removes 1 promotion
3. Summon Demon- Summons a Demon for 1 turn

Fire Sphere
+1. Fireball- Summons a strength 4 Fireball
+2. Conjure Fire Elemental- Summons a Fire Elemental for 1 turn
+3. Meteor Swarm- Summon 3 Strength 7 Meteors

Force Sphere
1. Levitate- Allows the caster a brief glimpse of everything in a 3 tile radius.
2. Telekinetic Punch- Strength 6 Attack
3. Forcewave- Moves all enemy units within 1 tile of the caster back 1 tile.

Ice Sphere
1. Frostshield- Reduces damage from Fire spells and creatures
2. Winterberries- Creates a permanent tile improvement on snow terrain that gives it a bonus to health and happiness
3. Blizzard- Adds snow to the terrain, reduces global warming

Law Sphere
1. Tower of Iron Will- Makes the unit immune to the effect of Confusion, Domination and charm effects
2. ?			
3. ?			

Life Sphere
+1. Cure Disease- Removes the Diseased and Plagued promotion from all units in the same tile
2. Healing Rain- Heals all units in the same tile
3. Resurrection- Resurrects target unit

Metamagic Sphere
1. Dispel Magic- Removes any existing spells (good or bad) in the targeted tile
2. Magic Resistance- Gives the unit the Magic resistance promotion for a few turns.
3. Anti-Magic Shell- Removes all spells within a 1 tiles radius of the caster and keeps any new spells from being cast for the next turn in that area.

Mind Sphere
1. Charm Person- Allows control of target unit.  The unit has a 5% chance per turn of returning to its original controller.  The unit cannot be made to attack its original civilization.
2. Inspiration- When cast in a city it temporarily boosts the research rate of that city
3. Domination- Allows control of target unit.  The caster becomes rooted and is unable to cast spells for as long as this spell is in effect.

Nature Sphere
1. Summon Tiger- Summons a tiger which becomes a barbarian unit after 1 turn
+2. Entangle- 80% chance to root every unit in the tile for 1 turn
3. Summon Storm- Puts out all forest fires with 5 tiles of the caster, has a 10% chance to lightning bolt every enemy unit in that radius.

Shadow Sphere
1. Invisibility- Hides the effected unit
2. Illusion- Creates a fake unit that lasts a few turns
3. Hallucinary Terrain- Hides effected city

Spirit Sphere
+1. Bless- Applies the Bless promotion on all non-Demonic units in the same tile until their next combat
2. Hope- When cast in a city it temporarily boosts culture output and happiness of that city
3. Enmity- Cast against another Civ leader, all other Civ’s have their rating for that leader reduced.  Multiple Enmity spells don’t stack.

Sun Sphere
1. True Seeing- Reveals all invisible units in a 2 tile radius.
2. Pillar of Flames- Summons a pillar of flames which hits every unit in the effected tile.  Does extra damage vs demonic units.
3. Scorch- Turns the tile into a Desert tile.  Increase global warming.

Water Sphere
1. Walk on Water- Allows the unit to cross water tiles for 2 turns
2. Conjure Water Elemental- Summons a Water Elemental for 1 turn
3. Tsunami- Can only be cast against tiles bordering the ocean, damages units and destroys buildings and improvements.  Has a small chance to convert that tile to a coast tile.

 

[Corlindale]

Wow, that's a lot of spells

Can't wait to try them all out, once they're done.

The resurrect spell... how would one go about targeting a deceased unit?


I hope you take suggestions for the ?? spells, because I'm going to make some:

Nature 3 - Couldn't it be something a bit like what the Eco-Ranger unit did in Call to Power? That was a unit which could attack a city, and then completely destroy it and turn it into forested land. This would obviously have to be modified so it wasn't quite as powerful, perhaps by making the % chance of it occuring lower, or only allowing it against smaller cities.

Law 2 - Fatal Discipline - Target unit will not retreat from battle when losing.(obviously only useful on units that can retreat normally...)

Law 3 - Hmm...perhaps a spell temporarily reducing maintenance for target city, if that is possible. But that would probably be abuseable.

Enchantment 1 - Hmm, perhaps +5% strength to all units in a square, or something...

Enchantment 2 - Perhaps something which granted a temporary extra promotion, or two, which only lasted one turn. Could be useful for special occasions.

 

[Kael]

Wow, that's a lot of spells

Can't wait to try them all out, once they're done.

The resurrect spell... how would one go about targeting a deceased unit?


I hope you take suggestions for the ?? spells, because I'm going to make some:

Nature 3 - Couldn't it be something a bit like what the Eco-Ranger unit did in Call to Power? That was a unit which could attack a city, and then completely destroy it and turn it into forested land. This would obviously have to be modified so it wasn't quite as powerful, perhaps by making the % chance of it occuring lower, or only allowing it against smaller cities.

Law 2 - Fatal Discipline - Target unit will not retreat from battle when losing.(obviously only useful on units that can retreat normally...)

Law 3 - Hmm...perhaps a spell temporarily reducing maintenance for target city, if that is possible. But that would probably be abuseable.

Enchantment 1 - Hmm, perhaps +5% strength to all units in a square, or something...

Enchantment 2 - Perhaps something which granted a temporary extra promotion, or two, which only lasted one turn. Could be useful for special occasions.

The design doc was written before I ever wrote any code for this mod, so I have no idea how its going to work. Its just my ideas on paper for the civ mod I wanted to play. Resurrection and such, I have no idea, I hope i can figure it out though.

I like your spell ideas, I will consider them. The enchantment sphere has been set aside for equipment (a goal of phase 2). I hope to have single resources that can be discovered, carried around by units, and trade for with other civilizations. Enchanters would be able to turn these resources into powerful equipment that grant automatic promotions to the units that carry them (and the equipment is dropped if the unit dies, making it able ot be picked up by others).

Again, I have no idea how Im going to code any of this, its just what I would like to have.

 

[wallace2]

I’ve been enjoying the new version of the mod, but I’ve had a few thoughts about religion in the game that I thought I’d share.
First off, this is clearly one of the real strengths of the mod, and the plans Kael has discussed for increasing strife between the various braches sounds quite interesting. I see a small problem with the establishment of the religions that others have tangentially discussed, and I thought I’d bring it to the fore.
In the games I’ve played of this mod, all the religions end up getting established by at most one or two other civilizations (other than the player civ) . This means that the later religions of the Veil and the Order have never been state religions in the game. I did manage to get Spain to convert to the order (the second religion I’d founded after the Runes) but this occurred only with effort on my part.
I wish I knew more about programming so that I could do more than simply offer suggestions, but I’d love to see some way of making it more difficult for a civilization with an established religion to establish a second one.

My other point is that I would really like to see a sixth religion in the game. A sixth religion would also make it more likely that conflict might emerge and that someone else might establish a separate religion. Since the basic civ game comes with six religions standard, I can’t imagine it would be difficult to add another.
I do understand that there is a specific theme and background world Kael has developed for this mod, but it seems to me that many of the themes are universal. Clearly this is the predominant fantasy themed mod for the new version of CIV. It seems the community has really embraced it and it now looks like a number of other people are working on other parts of it.
Here are two quick suggestions for possible sixth religions.
Hermeticism. This is a religion based on magic. On Kael’s ethical slider, it would be a ‘bad’ neutral religion between Fellowship of the Leaves and Octopus Overlords. It could be founded by the first civilization to discover Arcane Lore. Some sort of specialist mage unit could be its unique type. Perhaps this could be the path for the elementalist that Kael mentioned he was working on.
The Path of Fang and Claw. This could fit in the same place on the ethics slider as Hermeticism. It would be darker version of Fellowship of Leaves, concentrating on the ‘survival of the fittest’ aspect of nature worship. It could be founded by discovering Feral Bond, or if this is too late in the gaem, by discovering Poison (though then poison might need to be renamed something like ‘Dark Heart of the Woods.’ The units for this religion could be the wonderful animal units we’ve seen, or possibly pumped up feral versions of them. Another way to go with this could be to have orc and giant units. Kael’s giants look great, and I know someone on the skins board has made an orc skin.

At any rate, these are my musings on the subject. Once again, wonderful work, and I look forward to seeing this develop.

 

[Kael]

I’ve been enjoying the new version of the mod, but I’ve had a few thoughts about religion in the game that I thought I’d share.
First off, this is clearly one of the real strengths of the mod, and the plans Kael has discussed for increasing strife between the various braches sounds quite interesting. I see a small problem with the establishment of the religions that others have tangentially discussed, and I thought I’d bring it to the fore.
In the games I’ve played of this mod, all the religions end up getting established by at most one or two other civilizations (other than the player civ) . This means that the later religions of the Veil and the Order have never been state religions in the game. I did manage to get Spain to convert to the order (the second religion I’d founded after the Runes) but this occurred only with effort on my part.
I wish I knew more about programming so that I could do more than simply offer suggestions, but I’d love to see some way of making it more difficult for a civilization with an established religion to establish a second one.

My other point is that I would really like to see a sixth religion in the game. A sixth religion would also make it more likely that conflict might emerge and that someone else might establish a separate religion. Since the basic civ game comes with six religions standard, I can’t imagine it would be difficult to add another.
I do understand that there is a specific theme and background world Kael has developed for this mod, but it seems to me that many of the themes are universal. Clearly this is the predominant fantasy themed mod for the new version of CIV. It seems the community has really embraced it and it now looks like a number of other people are working on other parts of it.
Here are two quick suggestions for possible sixth religions.
Hermeticism. This is a religion based on magic. On Kael’s ethical slider, it would be a ‘bad’ neutral religion between Fellowship of the Leaves and Octopus Overlords. It could be founded by the first civilization to discover Arcane Lore. Some sort of specialist mage unit could be its unique type. Perhaps this could be the path for the elementalist that Kael mentioned he was working on.
The Path of Fang and Claw. This could fit in the same place on the ethics slider as Hermeticism. It would be darker version of Fellowship of Leaves, concentrating on the ‘survival of the fittest’ aspect of nature worship. It could be founded by discovering Feral Bond, or if this is too late in the gaem, by discovering Poison (though then poison might need to be renamed something like ‘Dark Heart of the Woods.’ The units for this religion could be the wonderful animal units we’ve seen, or possibly pumped up feral versions of them. Another way to go with this could be to have orc and giant units. Kael’s giants look great, and I know someone on the skins board has made an orc skin.

At any rate, these are my musings on the subject. Once again, wonderful work, and I look forward to seeing this develop.

My problem with adding more religions (or really in adding any significant content at all) is that I have the choice to develop and grow exisiting content or add new. I limited myself to 5 religions because I felt like they give me the minimum amout of diveristy I need to show the mod and are what I need for the scenerios.

I do agree that more religions would be better, but that may be a down the line sort of thing.

I do like your idea to more evenly spread out the religions. I could make it so that if you have researched "Elven Studies" you aren't able to research "Dwarven Studies" or "Message from the Deep" and so forth. Then leave the Order and the Ashen Veil open to everyone.

I also want to seperate them in the tech tree a bit further, as it is if you discover philosophy (especially if you get the philo free tech) you can rush all the religions. Although I like the idea of someone coming a religious strategy for winning the game, I think its to easy to monopolize right now.

 

[Haarbal]

Great bundles of joy!
My elf civ is working!
So for the people who want to make the fantasy sphere more complete click down here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=149974.

I'll add some screenshots in the morning.
the only bug there is, is my flag. it's showing up completely black

haarbal

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I was never able to figure out what animal handling is supposed to do.

 

[Kael]

I was never able to figure out what animal handling is supposed to do.

Animal Handling allows the training of Rangers.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Sorry, I meant the promotion?

 

[Kael]

Sorry, I meant the promotion?

Sorry, my fault for naming them both the same thing. The Animal Handling promotion allows the unit to take control of any animal they defeat in combat. So if your Ranger defeats a Tiger you gain control fo the Tiger.

Animal units don't have any upkeep costs and can travel in rival lands (who would suspect that the lowly badger is in fact an Aztec spy).

 

[Nikis-Knight]

That'd be cool, but they're usually dead by the time I get rangers. I've just noticed that I can't put scouts into caravels... meaning I have no one to put in them. Is this because they are now considered combat units?

 

[Kael]

That'd be cool, but they're usually dead by the time I get rangers. I've just noticed that I can't put scouts into caravels... meaning I have no one to put in them. Is this because they are now considered combat units?

Yeah, unintentionally. I will change the Caravel so it can carry any 1 land unit.

 

[Felzor]

Hey again. I was busy playing your mod but unfortunately a last minute trip made me abandon my computer, so I never really got very far in it. But to give you my first impressions from someone who just barely made it into the Classical Era (pretty much all the religions have been discovered now):

The design is amazing, and so are the graphics. Even though most units look like vanilla Civ IV at this point (I mean, couldn't you make Elvin Archers look different from regular archers??) I still like what you've done with units like, say, the hunter. I also think you've put a lot of creativity into the buildings and technologies.

However, it's playing REALLY REALLY REALLY slow, and I'm on "quick" mode. It's rather dissapointing. Couple that with the fact that I need all these different buildings to produce military units--not to mention that all the AI just uses warriors, over and over again--and this is a pretty lame experience. I also don't like the fact that each improvement gives negative benefits. I feel like there will never be any net gain that way, and it really hurts my brain. I don't want to have to calculate in my brain "oh, this gives me 3 culture but one less science... is it really worth it??"

The tech tree is also all over the place. The early reviews were right. Please tighten the tree. I highly suggest you make individual races too (elves, dwarves, undead) and allow each one it's own unique subsection of the tech tree to research their respective technologies--in addition to generic tech tree that all races use.

Basically, this game is extremely creative and has enormous potential, but right now I feel like there's absolutely no strategy. Everything is just so confusing. Too many buildings, too many units, too many techs. It's like a mosh pit with no rules. The fact that you have 3000 civis only adds to that confusion. I know you want options, but really, to me, the simpler the game, the better the game. Everytime I started playing and got bored within an hour and went back to Vanilla civ IV, where I feel the gameplay is much better, much smoother, much more planned out.

Don't get me wrong. This could be a fantastic mod, and most everybody else has already discussed its strengths (and there are many), but it needs a lot of work. As for that person who say that this plays fast like an RTS, I can only say "Wow." I have no idea where he got that idea. Maybe I'm not playing this mod the right way?? Also keep in mind I'm playing the first version, not the updated one, since I'm still away from my computer. Good work, Kael. Keep it up.

 

[Kael]

Hey again. I was busy playing your mod but unfortunately a last minute trip made me abandon my computer, so I never really got very far in it. But to give you my first impressions from someone who just barely made it into the Classical Era (pretty much all the religions have been discovered now):

The design is amazing, and so are the graphics. Even though most units look like vanilla Civ IV at this point (I mean, couldn't you make Elvin Archers look different from regular archers??) I still like what you've done with units like, say, the hunter. I also think you've put a lot of creativity into the buildings and technologies.

However, it's playing REALLY REALLY REALLY slow, and I'm on "quick" mode. It's rather dissapointing. Couple that with the fact that I need all these different buildings to produce military units--not to mention that all the AI just uses warriors, over and over again--and this is a pretty lame experience. I also don't like the fact that each improvement gives negative benefits. I feel like there will never be any net gain that way, and it really hurts my brain. I don't want to have to calculate in my brain "oh, this gives me 3 culture but one less science... is it really worth it??"

The tech tree is also all over the place. The early reviews were right. Please tighten the tree. I highly suggest you make individual races too (elves, dwarves, undead) and allow each one it's own unique subsection of the tech tree to research their respective technologies--in addition to generic tech tree that all races use.

Basically, this game is extremely creative and has enormous potential, but right now I feel like there's absolutely no strategy. Everything is just so confusing. Too many buildings, too many units, too many techs. It's like a mosh pit with no rules. The fact that you have 3000 civis only adds to that confusion. I know you want options, but really, to me, the simpler the game, the better the game. Everytime I started playing and got bored within an hour and went back to Vanilla civ IV, where I feel the gameplay is much better, much smoother, much more planned out.

Don't get me wrong. This could be a fantastic mod, and most everybody else has already discussed its strengths (and there are many), but it needs a lot of work. As for that person who say that this plays fast like an RTS, I can only say "Wow." I have no idea where he got that idea. Maybe I'm not playing this mod the right way?? Also keep in mind I'm playing the first version, not the updated one, since I'm still away from my computer. Good work, Kael. Keep it up.

I definitly appreicate the feedback. It is my intent to provide "more" so I may not be able to address the simplification. I do want to provide mroe flavor with the options so that it becomes easier, just from seeing the name to get a feel for what it does. So that may help some. Version 0.60 also has strategy tages for all of the buildings, so that helps when building cities.

Version 0.60 also reduced the cost of the unit training builds, and improved on the AI. Version 0.70 will improve even further on the AI. The computers love for warriors has definitly got to go.

Version 0.70 will be the first version to introduce areas of the tech tree and civics that are only accessible if you have the right religion. There are also some unit requirements (The Order and Runes of Kilmorph can't create Eidolon, Octopus Overlords and the Ashen Veil cant create Paladins).

I would definitly love to have more unique unit graphics, this isn't a finished project by a wide margin but it just comes down to priorities. Given the time to fix the AI or make a new elven archer model I gotta work on the AI. But I definitly agree that I need to distinguish the looks of the units.

This is just a beta of the Mod, released to get just the kind of feedback you have given. Except for the fact that I will probably be adding more, and not less options, I agree with everything you have said and I hope to address them all quickly.

 

[Felzor]

Except for the fact that I will probably be adding more, and not less options, I agree with everything you have said and I hope to address them all quickly.

Thanks for the prompt reply, and it's nice to know you can take my rather harsh feedback so kindly and receptively. I really look forward to 0.70, and I think fixing up the AI will improve this game tenfold. Still, I think you're making a big mistake by making more options and not less. This game is too muddled. I cannot emphasize that fact enough. I think it's hard for you to see this fact because you're the creator; you know this game like the back of your hand, inch by inch, inside and out, and so it seems simple to you. It's not simple, and keep in mind that most of the people rewiewing your mod are probably modders themselves and have much experience playing with new games. This is a double-edged sword, because while you get good advice on customization and creativity, you get little advice on this game from the standpoint of your everyday, average casual gamer. This game needs to be simplified! I know you're trying to make this mod play very different from vanillia Civ IV, but let me give you some advice: Don't! Vanilla Civ IV is an amazing game. It would do well for you NOT to change its fundamental charateristics. Don't add more options; add fewer, newer, better options.

You don't have to reply to this, and I hope to advance further along in your mod when I return home and then I will likely give a more comprehensive review. But from first impressions, this mod does NOT make me want to keep going. In fact, the only reason I'm compelled to persist is because I want to see your snazzy, beautiful new unit models--not because I actually think it's going to make for a good game.

Keep it up. Good luck.

 

[Stalin_Bulldog]

Possibly for enchanments, temporarily grant promotions/xp?

 

[Felzor]

Oh, by the way, I like your new civic names that's the kind of careful fantasy detail I think we're all looking for.

 

[Kael]

Oh, by the way, I like your new civic names that's the kind of careful fantasy detail I think we're all looking for.

Yeah, I need a lot more of that kind of "flavor" work. Especially for the tech tree. I prety muich used as many of the existing techs as I could, and I think it works okay for the first few steps, but I really need to rename the later techs so they make sense.

 

[Kael]

Possibly for enchanments, temporarily grant promotions/xp?

Yeah, I like the way the Bless spell turned out, +15% strength until that unit's next combat. I could boost movement rate, or sight range or stuff for the next few rounds. Maybe give them a withdrawl chance.

All of the stuff I think about for enchant spells is speced for magical items I want to make in Phase 2. So I figure I will probably just put 1 use limited resources int he game and let the enchanter make the item, rather than cast the spell on a unit. Makes it a little more interesting, and allows other civs to kil the unit and steal the item.

 

[Dragonlord]

Another quick time out from playing your Mod

There is DEFINITELY something screwed with Mithril!

In my current game (Standard, Continents), which I am close to winning on Emperor with Domination there is NOT ONE SINGLE MITHRIL in the whole world! At least, there is none on my continent (which I own) and none of the AIs seems to have it either, nor does it show on the world map.

Since practically all the high level units need the stuff, a lot of gameplay goes out the window... researched all those lovely techs and now I can't build the units..

BTW, I hadn't seen any mithril in the other 2 maps I played either, though there I hadn't explored the whole world, so that's not conclusive. It definitely seems very,very rare though.