[MOD] Fall from Heaven
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Kael
Deity
AU_Armageddon said:
You are correct. Right now improving the AI is my main goal.
Kael
Deity
Rando said:Kael, any other goodies we can expect in.70? (wondering about some of the great new unit skins I have seen - hellhound, etc.)
This is the current change list for 0.70:
Fixes:
*1. The AI casts spells now.
*2. Max Experience after upgrade changed form 10->999. (reported by DragonLord)
*3. Fixed a spinlock condition caused by summoning cleanup.
*4. Fixed a bug that kept Blood of the Phoenix from working.
*5. Moved the code that controled the Trojan Horse and Typhoid Mary to more reliable function.
*6. Caravel fixed so it can now transport 1 land unit. (reported by Nikis-Knight)
*7. Ranger unit graphics fixed. (reported by Levty)
Additions:
*1. Ashen Veil and the Order can't exist in the same town.
*2. New Civic- Arete (+10% military production, production rushing with gold, +20% Great Person rate in cities with Runes of Kilmorph)
*3. Only Fellowship of Leaves civ's can gain the civic Guardian of Nature.
*4. Only the Ashen Veil civ's can gain the civic Sacrifice the Weak.
*5. Only the Order civ's can gain the civic Social Order.
*6. Only Octopus Overlords civ's can gain the civic Slavery.
*7. Only Runes of Kilmorph civ's can gain the civic Arete.
*8. The Order and Runes of Kilmorph cannot train Eidolons.
*9. The Ashen Veil and Octopus Overlords cannot train Paladins.
*10. The Ashen Veil cannot train High Priests.
*11. Only Fellowship of Leaves civ's can research Hidden Paths.
*12. Only Runes of Kilmorph civ's can research Dwarven Mining.
*13. Only the Order civ's can research Divination.
*14. Only the Ashen Veil civ's can research Necromancy.
*15. Only Octopus Overlords civ's can research Mind Stapling.
*16. Added the ability to Irrigate away from water tiles with the Construction tech.
*17. Mages can cast spells anywhere! (thanks to help from Zurai!)
Balance Changes:
*1. Building Stables now give +1 Happiness with Horses (makes the computer more likely to build if it has horses).
*2. Building Barracks now give +1 Happiness with Copper and Iron (makes the computer more liekly to build if it has Copper or Iron).
*3. Civic Fend for Themselves reduced Health from +0 > -1.
*4. Build Gold moved up from Currency to Mathematics.
*5. Increased the liklihood that the computer will build unit training buildings.
*6. All AI Civ's had their unit built percentage decreased by 5%.
*7. All units had their AI Weight adjusted.
*8. Civic God King redone.
*9. All bonus resources rariety adjusted (Mithril and Gunpowder made more common).
*10. Promotion Accuracy requirement for City Raider I removed. (recommended by Levty)
*11. Infirmary cost increased from 200->300. (recommended by Levty)
*12. Aqueduct cost decreased from 250->200. (recommended by Levty)
*13. Low upkeep decreased.
*14. High upkeep increased.
*15. Tech Architecture removed.
*16. Tech Warhorses added.
*17. Knights now require Iron instead of Mithril.
*18. Since casters aren;t limited to their cultural boundries anymore the following moves were changed on spells:
- Fireball move 5 -> 2
- Demon move 7 -> 2
- Meteor move 5 -> 3
- Fire Elemental move 4 -> 2
- Earth Elemental move 5 -> 1
Cosmetic Changes:
*1. The Stygian Guards lost their clubs.
*2. Demons lost their compasses.
*3. Anarcho-syndiclist Commune renamed to Republic.
*4. New button graphic for Guardian of Nature civic.
*5. New button graphic for Tavern and Public Bath buildings.
*6. Patch 1.52 Text strings added.
*7. Scientific Method renamed to Alchemy (recommended by Mumin)
*8. Chemists lab renamed to Alchemy Lab (recommended by Mumin)
*9. Hospital renamed to Infirmary (recommended by Mumin)
*10. Tower renamed to Wizards Tower (recommended by Mumin)
*11. Literature renamed to Sorcery (recommended by Mumin)
*12. Nobility renamed to Chivalry. (recommended by Chammadai)
*13. New Elven Archer art. (provided by Mumin)
*14. New Archmage art.
Beautiful. My favorite mod on here. Played it till 2:00 am last night heh.
Not sure if these were reported in the previous 10 pages but here are a few bugs I found...
1: Yes AI is pretty easy. I was on prince and in 1st place whereas usually I am in the middle of the rankings. The #1 thing I found is that the AI doesnt upgrade units much. They were still using warriors and just having an archer or two in their towns while I had macemen. Some might be able to go that fast in the tech but again normally the AI keeps pace with me on prince setting.
2: Conjurors do not do collateral damage.
3: Apprentice -> adept upgrade cost is only 5 gold?
4: I couldnt find a way to build some of the religion units like the elven archers. I am assuming this is because my state religion was the dwarves?
5: Movement really starts piling on. horseman can get +1 movement at the begining with training yards and then win 1 fight and get another +1. 5 movement units are a bit much. Keeping them as a level 2 or 3 upgrade before getting it like in the regular game would be a bit more normal.
6: More spells please! Those are fun.
7: Beserkers say in the rage tech description that they need iron or mithril but when you go to build them they need mithril.
8: I dont know much about cthulhu but I think it would be fun if they have a giant squid or sea monster boat.
9: Each religion could use a few more units (unless I missed something). I built dwarves and at no time saw any upgrades for them later on.
Not sure if these were reported in the previous 10 pages but here are a few bugs I found...
1: Yes AI is pretty easy. I was on prince and in 1st place whereas usually I am in the middle of the rankings. The #1 thing I found is that the AI doesnt upgrade units much. They were still using warriors and just having an archer or two in their towns while I had macemen. Some might be able to go that fast in the tech but again normally the AI keeps pace with me on prince setting.
2: Conjurors do not do collateral damage.
3: Apprentice -> adept upgrade cost is only 5 gold?
4: I couldnt find a way to build some of the religion units like the elven archers. I am assuming this is because my state religion was the dwarves?
5: Movement really starts piling on. horseman can get +1 movement at the begining with training yards and then win 1 fight and get another +1. 5 movement units are a bit much. Keeping them as a level 2 or 3 upgrade before getting it like in the regular game would be a bit more normal.
6: More spells please! Those are fun.
7: Beserkers say in the rage tech description that they need iron or mithril but when you go to build them they need mithril.
8: I dont know much about cthulhu but I think it would be fun if they have a giant squid or sea monster boat.
9: Each religion could use a few more units (unless I missed something). I built dwarves and at no time saw any upgrades for them later on.
edu2003mdq
Son of Horus
I've been playing with the fantasy civs and it's a lot more fun. I can't wait to try 0.7!! This is the best MOD I ever played!
Kael
Deity
Rhianni said:
The AI improvement is the biggest objective of 0.70.
Thats true, but their elementals are bigger than fireballs (which do do collateral damage).
Yeap, they are evenly costed units (both cost 60 production to create).
You are correct.
When I can require a minimum level for promotions I tihnk this will be a very good idea. Until then Im cool with allowing players to have these untis as long as the computer correctly counters them (which it isn't doing in 0.60).
There is a post a few pages back where I list all my planned spells, there is definitly a ton left to make, but I am currntly more focused on making what I have work correctly then adding new stuff.
This shouldn't be the case, unless I have fixed it since and not recorded it.
These are definitly planned but fall under the time spent fixing what I have instead of creating new category. I would like to add new high level untis for all of the religions and the Overlords unit will include a sea unit.
Kael
Deity
Sareln said:
All of the building code has been moved to more reliable code, I will check to verify this works in 0.70 before I release it.
Ahh. You posted a few minutes before I did with most of my stuff answered already.
On the technology advisor screen, on the rage technology. When hovering the mouse over the beserker icon it says it requires iron or mithril. Not a big deal but in the game I played I didnt have mithril and went for it because I thought it would be iron. In hindsight it probably should be just mithril because of how powerful it is. You have a lot of changes listed so it could be that I missed it in your notes or you changed it already
When hovering the mouse over the conjuror unit its description says it does collateral damage. The technology advisor screen has it correct and does not list it there.
About spells. When casting them they currently have to be cast in your area and destroy the terrain type. I see the post where you can cast spells anywhere now. Will it still destroy the tile improvement? This could cause an imbalance in letting magic units summon something and destroy an tile improvement in 1 turn. Then again if you dont get the gold for it it may be a trade off.
On the technology advisor screen, on the rage technology. When hovering the mouse over the beserker icon it says it requires iron or mithril. Not a big deal but in the game I played I didnt have mithril and went for it because I thought it would be iron. In hindsight it probably should be just mithril because of how powerful it is. You have a lot of changes listed so it could be that I missed it in your notes or you changed it already
When hovering the mouse over the conjuror unit its description says it does collateral damage. The technology advisor screen has it correct and does not list it there.
About spells. When casting them they currently have to be cast in your area and destroy the terrain type. I see the post where you can cast spells anywhere now. Will it still destroy the tile improvement? This could cause an imbalance in letting magic units summon something and destroy an tile improvement in 1 turn. Then again if you dont get the gold for it it may be a trade off.
Kael,
in version 0.7 does researching one religion specific tech prohibit you from researching the others? If no, then there's a simple way to abuse it to get most of them - switching religions (made even simpler when spiritual). Dwarven Mining is one cool tech which is always worth having.
Second problem is with the Accuracy - will mages and archmages be allowed to have Barrage? Cause without it they still won't be able to choose Accuracy. And since now they don't do collateral damage it would be pretty useless anyway. Maybe you could change the requirement for Accuracy to Combat I?
Looking forward to 0.7
in version 0.7 does researching one religion specific tech prohibit you from researching the others? If no, then there's a simple way to abuse it to get most of them - switching religions (made even simpler when spiritual). Dwarven Mining is one cool tech which is always worth having.
Second problem is with the Accuracy - will mages and archmages be allowed to have Barrage? Cause without it they still won't be able to choose Accuracy. And since now they don't do collateral damage it would be pretty useless anyway. Maybe you could change the requirement for Accuracy to Combat I?
Looking forward to 0.7
Kael
Deity
Rhianni said:Ahh. You posted a few minutes before I did with most of my stuff answered already.
On the technology advisor screen, on the rage technology. When hovering the mouse over the beserker icon it says it requires iron or mithril. Not a big deal but in the game I played I didnt have mithril and went for it because I thought it would be iron. In hindsight it probably should be just mithril because of how powerful it is. You have a lot of changes listed so it could be that I missed it in your notes or you changed it already
When hovering the mouse over the conjuror unit its description says it does collateral damage. The technology advisor screen has it correct and does not list it there.
About spells. When casting them they currently have to be cast in your area and destroy the terrain type. I see the post where you can cast spells anywhere now. Will it still destroy the tile improvement? This could cause an imbalance in letting magic units summon something and destroy an tile improvement in 1 turn. Then again if you dont get the gold for it it may be a trade off.
Mage spells no longer destory the improvements.
Kael
Deity
Chammadai said:
Researching any tech doesn't keep you from being able to research any other tech. With 0.70 you have to be the appropriate state religion to research the "specilized tech" (the one behind the one that grants the religion) for each of the religions. Yes you will be able to jump through the religions to gather all of these if you want.
I fixed the accuracy promotion so it is learnable now:
But since I am now using the promotion code for spells mages can't level anymore. They are stuck at 3rd level forever. Once the SDK comes out I chould be able to open this up, but given the option of using the Improvement event (can only be cast within cultural boundries, the AI doesnt understand it) or the Promotion event (unit cant level anymore) I went with the Promotion code.
Congrats on a wonderful mod! I'm a relatively new civ player, having been introduced to III and fallen in love with IV. Very much looking forward to the next release and the much mentioned phase 2. There's a lot of scope here on top of a huge revamp of the original concept, with potential for a whole new style of Civ. I particularly hope your wish for new models comes true soon.
Browsed the thread and came up with the following:
1. My personal bugbear with the mod gaining enough commerce to sustain research at an acceptable rate. By the time I'd reached the classical age I was down to 20% research, which was still costing a lot more than I was making. This may be a problem with my approach to the game tactically, but it happened all three times I played the mod. Perhaps the early techs could be a little less expensive to research to make the first era pass a bit more fluidly. Given the size and complexity of the tech tree, I don't think this would be too bad a thing.
2. Glad you changed the names of some things. I found it unnerving when my peasant workforce started demanding an Anarcho-syndicalist Commune. I didn't know what that was, and I'm supposed to be the Boss.
3. Some Spell Ideas
Vitalize the Land -> What I was hoping when I first saw the icon was "perhaps it'll turn Desert into something, maybe an oasis?" Deserts are always a pain in the ass. Having a ray of hope in that direction would be good.
Enchantment Sphere -> If your equipment idea doesn't work out (its a goodie). Being the opposite of the mind sphere, perhaps a few degrading effects?
1. Glamour - +X smileys to target city for X turns
2. Weakness - Chosen unit/tile has strength reduced by 30% for X turns
3. Amnesia - Chosen unit loses last promotion/all promotions (perhaps particularly good vs. mages)
Law
2. Divine Commandment - -X unhappiness in chosen city until dispelled
3. Cursed Contract - Chosen unit may not attack your civ until dispelled (pretty powerful)
4. Props on the reskinning of the fighter plane for the hawk. Very creative use of available resources. Hawk and hunter combo rocks.
Thats it for the moment, I'm off to play some FFH . More thoughts as and when they occur. All the best!
Browsed the thread and came up with the following:
1. My personal bugbear with the mod gaining enough commerce to sustain research at an acceptable rate. By the time I'd reached the classical age I was down to 20% research, which was still costing a lot more than I was making. This may be a problem with my approach to the game tactically, but it happened all three times I played the mod. Perhaps the early techs could be a little less expensive to research to make the first era pass a bit more fluidly. Given the size and complexity of the tech tree, I don't think this would be too bad a thing.
2. Glad you changed the names of some things. I found it unnerving when my peasant workforce started demanding an Anarcho-syndicalist Commune. I didn't know what that was, and I'm supposed to be the Boss.
3. Some Spell Ideas
Vitalize the Land -> What I was hoping when I first saw the icon was "perhaps it'll turn Desert into something, maybe an oasis?" Deserts are always a pain in the ass. Having a ray of hope in that direction would be good.
Enchantment Sphere -> If your equipment idea doesn't work out (its a goodie). Being the opposite of the mind sphere, perhaps a few degrading effects?
1. Glamour - +X smileys to target city for X turns
2. Weakness - Chosen unit/tile has strength reduced by 30% for X turns
3. Amnesia - Chosen unit loses last promotion/all promotions (perhaps particularly good vs. mages)
Law
2. Divine Commandment - -X unhappiness in chosen city until dispelled
3. Cursed Contract - Chosen unit may not attack your civ until dispelled (pretty powerful)
4. Props on the reskinning of the fighter plane for the hawk. Very creative use of available resources. Hawk and hunter combo rocks.
Thats it for the moment, I'm off to play some FFH
. More thoughts as and when they occur. All the best!
Kael
Deity
Trillster said:Congrats on a wonderful mod! I'm a relatively new civ player, having been introduced to III and fallen in love with IV. Very much looking forward to the next release and the much mentioned phase 2. There's a lot of scope here on top of a huge revamp of the original concept, with potential for a whole new style of Civ. I particularly hope your wish for new models comes true soon.
Browsed the thread and came up with the following:
1. My personal bugbear with the mod gaining enough commerce to sustain research at an acceptable rate. By the time I'd reached the classical age I was down to 20% research, which was still costing a lot more than I was making. This may be a problem with my approach to the game tactically, but it happened all three times I played the mod. Perhaps the early techs could be a little less expensive to research to make the first era pass a bit more fluidly. Given the size and complexity of the tech tree, I don't think this would be too bad a thing.
2. Glad you changed the names of some things. I found it unnerving when my peasant workforce started demanding an Anarcho-syndicalist Commune. I didn't know what that was, and I'm supposed to be the Boss.
3. Some Spell Ideas
Vitalize the Land -> What I was hoping when I first saw the icon was "perhaps it'll turn Desert into something, maybe an oasis?" Deserts are always a pain in the ass. Having a ray of hope in that direction would be good.
Enchantment Sphere -> If your equipment idea doesn't work out (its a goodie). Being the opposite of the mind sphere, perhaps a few degrading effects?
1. Glamour - +X smileys to target city for X turns
2. Weakness - Chosen unit/tile has strength reduced by 30% for X turns
3. Amnesia - Chosen unit loses last promotion/all promotions (perhaps particularly good vs. mages)
Law
2. Divine Commandment - -X unhappiness in chosen city until dispelled
3. Cursed Contract - Chosen unit may not attack your civ until dispelled (pretty powerful)
4. Props on the reskinning of the fighter plane for the hawk. Very creative use of available resources. Hawk and hunter combo rocks.
Thats it for the moment, I'm off to play some FFH
Thanks for the feedback, Vitalize currently turns a Desert into a Plains so that is already in (only the Druid can use Vitalize).
As for money, a lot of people mentioned that money came to easily in 0.50 so 0.60 was made a bit more restrictive. Unfortunatly I tihnk Firaxis also made some money changes in 1.52 (reduced the revenue generated from trade routes) so it probably got to difficult to earn cash. I've eased up a bit in 0.70, mostly by making all of the low upkeep civics (the starting civis) less expensive so you don't incur the significant civic costs until you are ready.
Trillstar I didnt notice anything different in the economy in the mod vs the regular game. Maybe a few things in minds since you said you are a new player...
In civ4 vs civ3 each city is penalized by how many other cities there are. For example (without real data) 1 city is 0. 2 cities are each 1 gold maitenance (2 total). 3 cities are 2 each (6 total). 4 cities are 3 each (12 total). When you have a lot of cities and add on more you really get nailed hard with the gold costs. I captured and kept a 20th city while playing this mod and it cost me close to 40 gold by itself.
Having units in enemy territory also costs more then having them in your own. Thats something new that still gets me often.
To avoid this build cottages early. They take a long time to build up. I also switched to the money producing civics.
In civ4 vs civ3 each city is penalized by how many other cities there are. For example (without real data) 1 city is 0. 2 cities are each 1 gold maitenance (2 total). 3 cities are 2 each (6 total). 4 cities are 3 each (12 total). When you have a lot of cities and add on more you really get nailed hard with the gold costs. I captured and kept a 20th city while playing this mod and it cost me close to 40 gold by itself.
Having units in enemy territory also costs more then having them in your own. Thats something new that still gets me often.
To avoid this build cottages early. They take a long time to build up. I also switched to the money producing civics.
OK, having played about 14 hours in the past two days...
Even though there are some balancing issues to be addressed, I have to concur once again with the general sentiment: this is EASILY the most enthralling mod I've ever played. I can't wait to see what it's like further down the line.
Oh, and I've been pimping to the #gg irc/Bovine Conspiracy folks and they are mightily impressed as well.
Cheers!
Even though there are some balancing issues to be addressed, I have to concur once again with the general sentiment: this is EASILY the most enthralling mod I've ever played. I can't wait to see what it's like further down the line.
Oh, and I've been pimping to the #gg irc/Bovine Conspiracy folks and they are mightily impressed as well.
Cheers!
Kael
Deity
durwoodx said:
Always happy to see a fellow Overlord. Glad you are enjoying it.
Oh yeah Kael - nice touch with the summoning/spell casting times though they would be nice documented.
It seemed that spellcasters/summoners take 2 turns in flatland/deserts and one turn in any sort of hill. Flavor-wise this is cool, because it means I'll have my archmage or something on a nearby hill flinging fireballs (or meteors as the case may be) at the enemy.
It seemed that spellcasters/summoners take 2 turns in flatland/deserts and one turn in any sort of hill. Flavor-wise this is cool, because it means I'll have my archmage or something on a nearby hill flinging fireballs (or meteors as the case may be) at the enemy.
Kael
Deity
Sareln said:
This is no longer the case with 0.70, though it is still worthwile to put your Archmage on a hill for the improved sight range and the defence bonus.
BlazeRedSXT
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2003
- Messages
- 294
Kael, this is a really brilliant, fun Mod and satisfies the D&D geek in me! (this mod is better than DragonShard!).
Anyway, just wanted to cheer you on and, I wonder... Have you noticed any way to potentially change the tile bonuses per civ? I mean, is it possible for the Dwarves to get an extra Production from hills, or an extra Food unit from forrests for Elves? Etc.. perhaps a Civ specific Building that when built gives those sorts of bonuses... anyway, like you said, get things currently working to 100% before moving on to the wish list
Can't wait to see .7 and the future.
Cheers!
Anyway, just wanted to cheer you on and, I wonder... Have you noticed any way to potentially change the tile bonuses per civ? I mean, is it possible for the Dwarves to get an extra Production from hills, or an extra Food unit from forrests for Elves? Etc.. perhaps a Civ specific Building that when built gives those sorts of bonuses... anyway, like you said, get things currently working to 100% before moving on to the wish list
Can't wait to see .7 and the future.
Cheers!
Nikis-Knight
Deity
When you get various elementals to be summoned, have them take different turns depending on the terrain, like fire take one on dessert, two elsewhere, earth take one on hill, two elsewhere, water one next to a river, wind one on plains, etc.
