[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Xuenay]

IMO, the mage heroes are a bit weak in comparison to the non-mage heroes. Twincast is nothing is compared to a Saverous with +100% strength, +40% City Attack, +40% vs. Archery Units, +40% vs. Mounted Units and +145% vs. Melee Units...

An interesting feature - playing as the Overlords, I've been able to enslave some of the enemy Fire Elementals I've slain. I have a feeling that's not how it's supposed to go... (As an aside, those swarms of fire elementals the AI sends to pillage my territory are a pain. Which is just a good thing, of course, since that's a pretty smart use of them.)

More Sid's Tips notes: The game's using the (incorrect) Sid's Tips from vanilla civ for Market and Forge. Also, Armorer and Weaponsmith talk about granting Mithril Armor / Mithril Weapons promotions to units, respectively.

An Aqeduct might be a logical prerequisite for Public Baths? (After all, they need to get that water somewhere...) No actual game balance reason to make Public baths require an Aqeduct other than "it doesn't make sense to me otherwise", though.

Asylum problem: I suddenly noticed that, in one game of mine, Asylum suddenly started giving six unhappiness instead of the normal two! I checked my civics to see if that'd be the reason, but none of the civics I had (God King/Consumption/Slavery/Foreign Trade/Organized Religion/Protect the Meek/Religious Discipline) said it'd worsen Asylum's effects. Is this a bug or is it supposed to give that much unhappiness? (A saved game is available, if necessary)

Oh, and because I love truly epic games, I have one request - a longer and bigger tech tree! Tier 5, 6, 7 and 8 units! Twice as many buildings and wonders! More spells, no more everything...! (Megalomaniac, who where? ) I would, however, do something to the Warhorses tech - as a technology that only serves as a requirement for the next and proves no other benefit, it's pretty boring.

And one final thought - if 1.0 is supposed to be last version for a while, it might be a good idea to release a 0.95 before 1.0? Just so we can spot any possible bugs that might've been missed or introduced in the new version. Then after it's been out for a while, you could release the actual 1.0, with no other changes than all the bugs fixed. That way we won't need to wait for ages for a bugfree version.

 

[Kael]

My b-day is the 12th.....is this your present for me Kael? Its exactly what i wanted!
-El Scotto

EDIT: So where do you stand now? Ya got tons to do im sure, but what's Finished - the civs? THe units? THe magics? The endless mindnumbing answering of posts?

Im not ready to report on that yet. Its going into playtesting and we will see how it tests before I promise anything. I'll drop a feature list soon.

 

[Kael]

IMO, the mage heroes are a bit weak in comparison to the non-mage heroes. Twincast is nothing is compared to a Saverous with +100% strength, +40% City Attack, +40% vs. Archery Units, +40% vs. Mounted Units and +145% vs. Melee Units...

An interesting feature - playing as the Overlords, I've been able to enslave some of the enemy Fire Elementals I've slain. I have a feeling that's not how it's supposed to go... (As an aside, those swarms of fire elementals the AI sends to pillage my territory are a pain. Which is just a good thing, of course, since that's a pretty smart use of them.)

More Sid's Tips notes: The game's using the (incorrect) Sid's Tips from vanilla civ for Market and Forge. Also, Armorer and Weaponsmith talk about granting Mithril Armor / Mithril Weapons promotions to units, respectively.

An Aqeduct might be a logical prerequisite for Public Baths? (After all, they need to get that water somewhere...) No actual game balance reason to make Public baths require an Aqeduct other than "it doesn't make sense to me otherwise", though.

Asylum problem: I suddenly noticed that, in one game of mine, Asylum suddenly started giving six unhappiness instead of the normal two! I checked my civics to see if that'd be the reason, but none of the civics I had (God King/Consumption/Slavery/Foreign Trade/Organized Religion/Protect the Meek/Religious Discipline) said it'd worsen Asylum's effects. Is this a bug or is it supposed to give that much unhappiness? (A saved game is available, if necessary)

Oh, and because I love truly epic games, I have one request - a longer and bigger tech tree! Tier 5, 6, 7 and 8 units! Twice as many buildings and wonders! More spells, no more everything...! (Megalomaniac, who where? ) I would, however, do something to the Warhorses tech - as a technology that only serves as a requirement for the next and proves no other benefit, it's pretty boring.

And one final thought - if 1.0 is supposed to be last version for a while, it might be a good idea to release a 0.95 before 1.0? Just so we can spot any possible bugs that might've been missed or introduced in the new version. Then after it's been out for a while, you could release the actual 1.0, with no other changes than all the bugs fixed. That way we won't need to wait for ages for a bugfree version.

1.0 went to playtest today. If there are significant bugs I will release a post 1.0 patch, but .9 was the last version to include new code for exactly this reason. I don't want 1.0 to have bugs. In effect .9 is the beta for 1.0.

There won't be any new spells or armageddon spells in 1.0 because they all require new code (which usually takes me another rev level to get working).

Good catch on the elementals, I will get that changed, as well as the building descriptions.

As for the Asylum, the religious folks in your city are unhappy. The Treehome and Basilica both give -4 happy if they are in the same city as an Asylum.

 

[Kael]

Open call for suggestions. As somebody mentioned a while ago the priests and disciples should have different names for the different religions. Its a good idea but fell into the cosmetic bucket that I am going through now as I prep 1.0. These are the name I currently have, let me know if you guys think they can be improved:

Priests:
Ritualist of the Veil
Stonewarden of Kilmorph
Priest of Leaves
Confessor of the Order
Heretic of the Overlords

Disciples:
Fanatic of the Overlords
Thane of Kilmorph
Disciple of Leaves
Acolyte of the Order
Savant of the Veil

 

[Xuenay]

As for the Asylum, the religious folks in your city are unhappy. The Treehome and Basilica both give -4 happy if they are in the same city as an Asylum.

Interesting... because I just took over some Fellowship cities. However, the cities that do get a happiness minus are ones without either improvement - in fact, a couple of those cities have never had any other religions than the Overlords!

Here's a link to a saved game with that problem - check out the cities of Madras, Khoisan, Yakutsk, Delhi and Bombay. Each has +6 unhappy from the Asylum, but no Treehome or Basilica.

Saved game: www.saunalahti.fi/~tspro1/Fall_from_Heaven.Civ4SavedGame

 

[JanusTalaiini]

Interesting... because I just took over some Fellowship cities. However, the cities that do get a happiness minus are ones without either improvement - in fact, a couple of those cities have never had any other religions than the Overlords!

Is it possible that the "negative unhappy face" modifiers are actually equal to a "positive happy face" modifier? I noted this curiousity in a short post a few pages back relating to the pacifism civic, not sure if its supposed to be that way or what.

 

[Lunargent]

An AI completed blight, but it didn't ruin it's relations with the other remaining AI. Since blight is the effective equivalent of nuking all large cities in the entire gameworld ( some cities were 20 food short), any civ that uses it should get a severe reputation hit.

To retaliate, I used Armaggedon( my cities were all starving to death anyway, and I was getting irritated at all the green smog everywhere)and Wrath, but the AI didn't seem to mind. Granted, I immediately declared war on the blight offender and this caused the other remaining AI to declare war on me, but there was no further hate generated beyond the usual. I certainly expected them to hate my guts for killing half their population and more!

As for the names-- the only one I would change is Heretic of the Overlords. Harmonizer sounds better to me. Heretic implies that the priest is aknowledging that his religion is false.

 

[kevjm]

Preacher of the overlords?

Heritic sounds wrong somehow

 

[JanusTalaiini]

As for the names-- the only one I would change is Heretic of the Overlords. Harmonizer sounds better to me. Heretic implies that the priest is aknowledging that his religion is false.

Well, in a religious context, a "heretic" is one who disagrees with an established church position on some issue. The word comes from a greek word meaning "to choose", as in choosing your own way in opposition to established religious authority. So, it could make a good deal of sense for the overlords, as dissenters from other religious establishments.

 

[Daijin]

This is true for me for vanilla civ IV.......darn you kids and your fancy super-computers playing on huge worlds....out wippersnappers! Go play civ II and come back with your fancy talk! Leave us geezers to our "Small" worlds
-El Scotto

Im a 38 year old kid yup

 

[Maarak]

seeing as how one of the intial intentions of this mod was to put more emphasis on religion, perhaps some more religion specific armegeddon spells would be good?

while Kael did state that no more major changes would occur for 1.0, I think it'd be good to discuss some ideas for phase 2

I for one would love to see some sort of overlords specific armageddon, especially since they're so heavily lovecraftian influenced. Perhaps the sunken city of R'lyeh could rise from the largest body of water and all sorts of chaos would ensue. Or some percentage units would become barbarian lunatics.

I was never really fond of elves, so I'll leave those ideas to others.

As far as the Veil goes there are almost too many ideas within the broad realm of dark magic.

 

[Chasaffton]

Im a 38 year old kid yup

Wow Iam a 58 year old kid with super computer.

c

 

[andrew_yaweb]

I noticed I get a lot of unhappiness around city size 5 or 6. What are peoples strategies for this. Seems harder to keep people happy in this mod.

 

[Kael]

seeing as how one of the intial intentions of this mod was to put more emphasis on religion, perhaps some more religion specific armegeddon spells would be good?

while Kael did state that no more major changes would occur for 1.0, I think it'd be good to discuss some ideas for phase 2

I for one would love to see some sort of overlords specific armageddon, especially since they're so heavily lovecraftian influenced. Perhaps the sunken city of R'lyeh could rise from the largest body of water and all sorts of chaos would ensue. Or some percentage units would become barbarian lunatics.

I was never really fond of elves, so I'll leave those ideas to others.

As far as the Veil goes there are almost too many ideas within the broad realm of dark magic.

The cosmetic is the most unfun part of making a mod, at least to me. But thats the stage the mod is in. Im actually looking forward to being able to release and close Phase 1 and go back to doing some true design work. I have a lot of note and ideas, tons from this thread, that I have to go through and find a home for. It's going to be fun.

 

[Maarak]

The cosmetic is the most unfun part of making a mod, at least to me. But thats the stage the mod is in. Im actually looking forward to being able to release and close Phase 1 and go back to doing some true design work. I have a lot of note and ideas, tons from this thread, that I have to go through and find a home for. It's going to be fun.

so does that mean more of a lovecraftian feel to the OO? I can only assume you know what I mean based on the stuff thats already there. For everyone else I'd refer them to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

 

[kopaladin]

Priests:
Hierophant of the Order
Chosen of the Overlods - Zealot of the Overlords
Ancient of Leaves - Heart of the Forest - Keeper of Gaia

Disciples:
Companion of Leaves

 

[Kael]

so does that mean more of a lovecraftian feel to the OO? I can only assume you know what I mean based on the stuff thats already there. For everyone else I'd refer them to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

Yeah, I definitly love the lovecraft flavor for the overlords. I love anything dark fantasy, and Lovecraft was a great example.

 

[Kael]

Priests:
Hierophant of the Order
Chosen of the Overlods - Zealot of the Overlords
Ancient of Leaves - Heart of the Forest - Keeper of Gaia

Disciples:
Companion of Leaves

Very nice, Im going to use the Zealot title. I actually really like the Hierophant title too but the Order ranks are pretty firmly defined (read Rosier's pedia entry to find out more about the Confessors).

 

[Bringa]

Priests:
Ritualist of the Veil
Stonewarden of Kilmorph
Priest of Leaves
Confessor of the Order
Heretic of the Overlords

Disciples:
Fanatic of the Overlords
Thane of Kilmorph
Disciple of Leaves
Acolyte of the Order
Savant of the Veil

I haven't played this enough yet to fully understand the difference between priests and disciples, but I'll try to come up with some generally usable names; it'll be up to you to assign them to disciple / priest, if you like any of them.

Veil:
Magus (typically, early 20th century "satanists" and other occult people referred to themselves simply as magicians/mages; magus was a somewhat more fanciful term you could find)
Invoker
Revenant (I'm not sure, but maybe the German term might be even cooler; you'll have to decide that as an English native speaker The German term is "Widergänger"; I think I heard it in English contexts, but I'm not sure)
Embalmer

Leaves:
Forestwalker
Druid
Son of Alberich ("elf king"; a character from the Nibelunglied. Some of him made it into anglo-saxon culture in the shape of Oberon)
Gardener

Kilmorph:
(Thane is a wonderful word! It's got nothing to do with religion, though. Still, you may want to keep it just because it's a great word)
Highsmith
Brewer
Rockhammer
(you will want to keep your dwarvish names; they're better than anything I can come up with ;P)

The Order:
Surveyor-General
Judicial Vicar
Officialias
Confessor

TENTACLES (I mean, Cthulhu. I mean, overlords!):
Oneirocritic (or Dream Reader, if you want to be un-fancy Those played an important part in Babylonian culture, and it is generally suggested that some of the aspects of the Cthulhu myth come from that area)
Ancient Librarian
Cultist
Daolothian (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_God#Daoloth)
Unclean One
Astrologer-priest
Occultist
Betrothed (this might take some explaining, and it might be too cryptic, but I like the idea; (I'll go ahead and spoil shadow over Innsmouth since it's only, oh, 70 years old ;P) In Shadow over Innsmouth, there was a cult which posed as free masons; they had to take three pledges, and the third of the pledges was to "marry" a great old one and bear/sire their offspring. Creepy stuff)

Concerning the suffix "of the <religion>". While I do agree that clarity is king, I think you should choose names that make it clear on their own what religion a priest/disciple belongs to. Shorter names are always good, and if the names can be less formulaic, why, that's another plus

Looking back at the post I just produced, I think you'll want to have a look at my names for the OVERLORD religion and maaaaybe the Order; the rest isn't that great. But feel free to use anything you like, of course.

PS: I forgot to mention: your mod kicks ass Keep up the insane amounts of work you must be pouring into it.

 

[Kael]

I haven't played this enough yet to fully understand the difference between priests and disciples, but I'll try to come up with some generally usable names; it'll be up to you to assign them to disciple / priest, if you like any of them.

Veil:
Magus (typically, early 20th century "satanists" and other occult people referred to themselves simply as magicians/mages; magus was a somewhat more fanciful term you could find)
Invoker
Revenant (I'm not sure, but maybe the German term might be even cooler; you'll have to decide that as an English native speaker The German term is "Widergänger"; I think I heard it in English contexts, but I'm not sure)
Embalmer

Leaves:
Forestwalker
Druid
Son of Alberich ("elf king"; a character from the Nibelunglied. Some of him made it into anglo-saxon culture in the shape of Oberon)
Gardener

Kilmorph:
(Thane is a wonderful word! It's got nothing to do with religion, though. Still, you may want to keep it just because it's a great word)
Highsmith
Brewer
Rockhammer
(you will want to keep your dwarvish names; they're better than anything I can come up with ;P)

The Order:
Surveyor-General
Judicial Vicar
Officialias
Confessor

TENTACLES (I mean, Cthulhu. I mean, overlords!):
Oneirocritic (or Dream Reader, if you want to be un-fancy Those played an important part in Babylonian culture, and it is generally suggested that some of the aspects of the Cthulhu myth come from that area)
Ancient Librarian
Cultist
Daolothian (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_God#Daoloth)
Unclean One
Astrologer-priest
Occultist
Betrothed (this might take some explaining, and it might be too cryptic, but I like the idea; (I'll go ahead and spoil shadow over Innsmouth since it's only, oh, 70 years old ;P) In Shadow over Innsmouth, there was a cult which posed as free masons; they had to take three pledges, and the third of the pledges was to "marry" a great old one and bear/sire their offspring. Creepy stuff)

Concerning the suffix "of the <religion>". While I do agree that clarity is king, I think you should choose names that make it clear on their own what religion a priest/disciple belongs to. Shorter names are always good, and if the names can be less formulaic, why, that's another plus

Looking back at the post I just produced, I think you'll want to have a look at my names for the OVERLORD religion and maaaaybe the Order; the rest isn't that great. But feel free to use anything you like, of course.

PS: I forgot to mention: your mod kicks ass Keep up the insane amounts of work you must be pouring into it.

Doh, I suddenly have more cool names than I have unit to name. Be careful what you ask for . I particuarly love the Tentacles, I mean Cuthulu, I mean Overlords names, specialy the Cultist and Daolothian titles.

And I think you are right about the religion names, I will probably cut them like you suggest.