[MOD] Medieval: Conquests

[orlanth]

Just never liked the idea of buying and selling Monks, heh.
Seriously, monks where "Summoned" here and there as well so it makes sense to have them available to summon as well.

It's all about simony and selling indulgences despite the vow of poverty those monks aren't above a little bribery!

 

[mastrude]

I sent a huntsman out with 100 horses in his backpack, and tried to found a town with him. The game laid an egg (i.e. crashed.)

 

[mastrude]

Just never liked the idea of buying and selling Monks, heh.

How about nuns? There's a story, I think untrue, that Saint Ursula led a pilgrimage of eleventhousand virgins to the holy lands. They were captured by the Turks. As the story goes, Saint Ursula was martyred rather than submit to the lusts of the Turk. All her virgins too. Apologies to any Turkish readers.

The Crusades were a vile and entertaining chapter in western "civilization". For an entertaining read, try Steven Runciman's classic History of the Crusades in 4 volumes. Cannibalism and every sort of depravity. An interesting sidelight is that apparently Sir Steven himself was such a queen as to be expelled from Istanbul on morals charges. I can't personally verify this, but fortunately you can't libel the dead.

I remember these things from my grad school days in medieval history. When I dropped out, my fellow students came by and confiscated my medieval Latin dictionary. They said they needed it more than me. I felt like a cavalry officer being drummed out by having his uniform buttons ceremonially cut off. As Dr. Seuss tells us, "Ah, the places you'll go." And now I'm a degenerate game player!

EDIT:Actually, it was supposed to be Huns that got them, in Europe. Sorry.

 

[mastrude]

I'm running on settler, with the time limit set (I hope) to 375. That's longer than needed, this time.

Interesting! I set the number of other civs to 3, as I've been doing. They're all natives; none are rivals. Must specify a rival by name.

I think that, in many ways, Colonization is a better game than Civ 4. It has management tools that Civ 4 and Civ 5 lack. My data base extends those. I'm guessing that Kailric has a similar opinion.

 

[Nightinggale]

How about nuns? There's a story, I think untrue, that Saint Ursula led a pilgrimage of one thousand virgins to the holy lands. They were captured by the Turks. As the story goes, Saint Ursula was martyred rather than submit to the lusts of the Turk. All her virgins too.

Somehow I don't think something like that happened precisely how you told it. However it is a fact that the Turks (Ottomans) captured people and used them as slaves.

Apologies to any Turkish readers.

Funny how people apologize for something like that when nobody apologizes when the topic is pioneers vs indians. Somebody might apologize to the natives, but nobody will apologize to the modern US citizens for pointing out actions of say general Custer.

The Crusades were a vile and entertaining chapter in western "civilization".

That's certainly not how everybody view it. The era of crusades were when armies grew big and there were a real threat that they would attack Europe. The crusades were to stop their approach. The whole issue with different religions didn't help, but it was mainly response to foreign army activities. The crusades stopped when... some warlord (forgot his name and will not look it up right now) took control of the fortress in Homs in modern day Syria. Losing control of that important mountain pass made further attacks impossible and Europe went into a defense mode, which were more aimed at fortifications.

 

[mastrude]

Funny how people apologize for something like that when nobody apologizes when the topic is pioneers vs indians. Somebody might apologize to the natives, but nobody will apologize to the modern US citizens for pointing out actions of say general Custer.

I think modern arabs and turks are quite likely to be offended by romantic tales of the Crusades.

That's certainly not how everybody view it. The era of crusades were when armies grew big and there were a real threat that they would attack Europe. The crusades were to stop their approach. The whole issue with different religions didn't help, but it was mainly response to foreign army activities. The crusades stopped when... some warlord (forgot his name and will not look it up right now) took control of the fortress in Homs in modern day Syria. Losing control of that important mountain pass made further attacks impossible and Europe went into a defense mode, which were more aimed at fortifications.

I disagree, and Sir Steven does too, as I remember. He outranks you! It's certainly true that, a few centuries later, Vienna and the Balkans were seriously threatened by Turkik and mongolian people. That's why the Balkans got so mean, which they still are today. As I recall the First Crusade was in the eleventh century, before the threat. There are a couple of fantasy--ahistorical fiction--novels about this period by Guy Gavriel Kay. One is The Lions of Al-Rassan.

 

[Kailric]

I'm running on settler, with the time limit set (I hope) to 375. That's longer than needed, this time.

Interesting! I set the number of other civs to 3, as I've been doing. They're all natives; none are rivals.

I think that, in many ways, Colonization is a better game than Civ 4. It has management tools that Civ 4 and Civ 5 lack. My data base extends those. I'm guessing that Kailric has a similar opinion.

Thanks for the history lesson guys, I love history. I fixed that one bug already with the founding a city with horses or any cargo actually. And yeah, I have always liked Col better than Civ. It gives a more focused game play and simulation. This mod needs a forum of its own so we can keep topics together. I was told maybe if the activity keeps up for the rest of this month they'll consider it. So, lets keep this going shall we.

I am satisfied with the AI for the moment. They are far from what I really want but I want to get this out for people to play test. I have been running the game on auto play without any crashes for a while now so I am going to play test myself and see how it goes.

 

[Nightinggale]

I disagree, and Sir Steven does too, as I remember. He outranks you!

Not in my book if I disagree with him
He might as well have written about honourable knights based on written accounts. We know today that some of those stories were written by nobel/royal ladies at the very same time as the knights were plundering innocent peasants. Knight honour were written as romantic fiction, though we can't rule out that the writers were misinformed.

Great resources were put into the crusades and it didn't return anything like that in plunder. Now who would do that for fun at a time where you risked losing your kingdom while the army were absent? It's illogical not to assume the military people behind the crusades didn't base their actions on military threats/goals. Obviously something important made them spend those resources and accept the risks involved.

It's certainly true that, a few centuries later, Vienna and the Balkans were seriously threatened by Turkik and mongolian people.

Charlemagne believed he was ordered by God to rule Europe because he stopped the muslim invasion around year 800. They took Spain but didn't go any further. Meanwhile stuff happened in the Middle East and northern Africa. Try reading this and notice the dates. Stating that the crusades took place before Muslim armies started to be a real threat to Europe is misplacing events by centuries.

For the record I haven't actually read A History of the Crusades. I will not bash the content of it without doing so. Basically what I disagree with is the conclusion you appear to have from it (based on the book or not).

 

[mastrude]

Yes, sorry, I thought you figured this out already.

I figured this out already, all right, it's JUST THAT IT DOESN'T WORK! I can disable the turn timer but not change it. Maybe the numbers in the XML are like "junk DNA", and the number is hard-coded somewhere.

With the turn limit eased, this game is really big fun! I hope your revision doesn't change it too much. I like it a lot the way it is.

 

[mastrude]

Great resources were put into the crusades and it didn't return anything like that in plunder. Now who would do that for fun at a time where you risked losing your kingdom while the army were absent? It's illogical not to assume the military people behind the crusades didn't base their actions on military threats/goals. Obviously something important made them spend those resources and accept the risks involved.

I disagree with you. The motivation was primarily religious. But please, darling, let's don't fight!

Charlemagne believed he was ordered by God to rule Europe because he stopped the muslim invasion around year 800. They took Spain but didn't go any further.

It's certainly true that the fighting started in Spain long before the Turks threatened Constantinople and Eastern Europe. The fighting in Spain had a mixture of military and religious motives and I gather the Arabs were aggressors, or least expansionist.

For the rest, I leave the matter. I certainly don't want to get into a flame war! History of The Crusades is entertaining and appalling!

 

[mastrude]

Well, I can't stay away from the topic without a final quote from Wikipedia:

"First published in 1951, A History of the Crusades has seen numerous reprints and translations. For years it has been the standard by which other Crusade histories have been measured. It combines Runciman’s unique style of narration with an insightful and broad view of the Crusades. Encompassing the ascendancy of Islam in the Levant during the early seventh century and the fall of the Kingdom of Acre in 1291, it offers a foundation for understanding the Crusades. Runciman’s method at piecing the many narratives together is simple but succinct. He utilizes foreshadowing, suspense, and intrigue to build an absorbing account of the Crusades that borders on the epic or romantic.

However, it would be a disservice to believe that A History of the Crusades was written solely for the layman or novice. The work draws on a wide range of primary sources (in Greek, Latin, Armenian, Arabic) and at the time of its initial publication, offered a new interpretation of the era: that the Crusades were a barbarian invasion of the East comparable to traditional Germanic invasions that contributed to the fall of Rome. [My emphasis.] The Crusades, and the foundation of the Crusader states in the Middle East, are seen as destructive, rather than as a noble effort to regain property and land once held by Christian empires. Furthermore, A History of the Crusades incorporated the history of the Byzantine Empire in ways that previous accounts had failed to do. This thesis helped to widen the scope of interest in Crusade history, moving it further east, and at the same time curbed the romantic view of the Crusades still held in some parts of the West."

 

[Kailric]

I figured this out already, all right, it's JUST THAT IT DOESN'T WORK! I can disable the turn timer but not change it. Maybe the numbers in the XML are like "junk DNA", and the number is hard-coded somewhere.

With the turn limit eased, this game is really big fun! I hope your revision doesn't change it too much. I like it a lot the way it is.

Can't change the turns? What exactly are you wanting to change? It seems to be working for me. I changed it to 350 turns, at 250 turns it tells me I have 100 turns till conquest begins. Then Conquests last for 100 turns. For a total of 450 turns. What part of that isn't working? Maybe I just imagined it worked

Anyway, sense we are talking about crusades that's something I want to add to the game in a unique way.

I have two ideas, one is a Holy City (Jerusalem) is given to one of the barbarians at the start of the game. Civs then fight for control of that city, who ever owns the Holy City gains a sinificant bonus to immigration, fealty, and culture.

Another idea is that the first player to build a Shrine in a city, that city becomes the Holy City that everyone is fighting for. If this was used it would be a sure race to found a monastery and find a relic in a goody hut somewhere. The AI builds shrines this way quite well.

Thoughts?

 

[Nightinggale]

I figured this out already, all right, it's JUST THAT IT DOESN'T WORK! I can disable the turn timer but not change it. Maybe the numbers in the XML are like "junk DNA", and the number is hard-coded somewhere.

Open CivilizationIV.ini
Find

; Disable caching of file system (may slow initialization)
DisableFileCaching = 0

; Disable caching of xml and file system (may slow initialization)
DisableCaching = 0

Somewhere there could be a 1 missing, which means you could be reading from an outdated XML cache. I can't rule out that it might save turn limit in a savegame, which means you may have to start a new game to see the change. However the cache is the most likely issue.

I disagree with you. The motivation was primarily religious. But please, darling, let's don't fight!

I can't help but thinking about John Cleese in this video.

 

[Commander Bello]

I can't help but thinking about John Cleese in this video.

Oh, you can.

 

[Kailric]

I can't help but thinking about John Cleese in this video.

Now, thats funny stuff!

I've been playing around with the update. Had a few bugs to knock out but its going well. I believe y'all will enjoy this new version better than the old one. I am having a blast at the moment and, grrrrr, I don't want to stop playing but I have too. Have to go out for a while.

When I upload the next version it will be for play testing purposes. I'm sure there will be a lot of input and suggestions on all the new game features.

 

[mastrude]

Nightinggale, thanks for the advice. I don't see how that could be the issue, since I always restart the game after changing the mod, but perhaps the caching extends over games somehow? In any case, Kailric has shown that it can work, so it's up to me.

 

[Kailric]

Nightinggale, thanks for the advice. I don't see how that could be the issue, since I always restart the game after changing the mod, but perhaps the caching extends over games somehow? In any case, Kailric has shown that it can work, so it's up to me.

Make sure its in the correct folder, too. I've made that mistake before.

 

[mastrude]

Nightinggale, thanks for the advice. I don't see how that could be the issue, since I always restart the game after changing the mod, but perhaps the caching extends over games somehow? In any case, Kailric has shown that it can work, so it's up to me.

I don't know what I did wrong before, but it's working fine now. I musta been smokin' some of that Arkansas Polio Weed.

 

[mastrude]

Uh... how come my jester does more for me in jail than in the theater? And what is that silver-coin shaped thing anyway? Culture?

 

[Nightinggale]

I don't see how that could be the issue, since I always restart the game after changing the mod, but perhaps the caching extends over games somehow?

The cache is known to cause problems when people change/update mods even when restarting the game. I can't recall I had problems personally, but then again I disabled the cache when I started modding just to be sure.