[MOD] Medieval: Conquests

[Kailric]

I'm still early stages on the way to the final version, so I don't put a download yet. It's hard to build scenario that plays it the way I want. I'm also balancing between decision whether I want Cities and Empires at start be well established, or gameplay to be more like on random map, starting with almost nothing. Also one problem might be that Byzantines are so far ahead other civs at the start (before Arabs will invade).

Hey, this sounds totally cool! This time period is perfect for all kinds of scenarios, well just about any time period is but this one is cooler! One idea I just had about Byzantines starting more advanced. Well, in actually history they were almost constantly in a war with the Muslims. This could be and was probably what did slow down their expansion. So, if the Arabs only appear later in the game to invade they could however have random smaller battles aimed at the Byzantine that keep them on the defense.

I've got few small questions:

1. There seems to be no Cows or sheep appearing on map using randomized resources. Do I need to add some with python, if i want the map to have randomized resources?
2. Does map need to have "Acces to Europe" tiles, if all civs are changed to land based starts? Ships appearing from nowhere in Red Sea is not wished behaviour.

1. I am sorry, map building is not something I am familiar with but I do know that scenario maps have predefined resources and sense this mod changes or removes a lot of the original resources it messes things up.

2. But yes, the map does need Access to Europe tiles for the AI. Even in this mod, a human player uses trade routes for The Fair and Silk Road but the AI is not programmed yet to use those. They still use the generic Europe Screen and need ships to do this. I've concentrated on the players experience and haven't yet changed things up for the AI. It takes a lot of time and debugging to get the AI to act right and take advantage of the new rules so it just hasn't happened yet.

But, it could be something I look into to help you with these scenarios.

 

[Nightinggale]

Scenario will start around ~500 AD. It will be bit semi-historic, going for too exact start year isn't necessary, because Europe was so fractured at those times. Also, all tribes are playable from the start, no matter whether they really existed at that time yet.

I wouldn't put too much into real historical accuracy. There is only one correct historical chain of events and it doesn't leave room for say a brilliant (or lucky) player conquering all of Europe. We will have to accept some randomness and historical inaccuracies in order to gain proper gameplay.

In a sense we could play with history and say "what if". One interesting scenario is what if the Chinese treasure fleet had reached Europe? According to one map they came as far as Cape Town before turning back. They were clearly capable of going all the way.

 

[Fullerene]

I wouldn't put too much into real historical accuracy. There is only one correct historical chain of events and it doesn't leave room for say a brilliant (or lucky) player conquering all of Europe. We will have to accept some randomness and historical inaccuracies in order to gain proper gameplay.
.

Exactly. The point is not to have historical accuracy, but the historical flavor of playing
Europe map, where nations start at correct locations. Same with the events.

I've got lot of ideas for what kind of events there could be, but my first goals are simpler:

• Place starting cities on map on correct locations
• Adjust cities(buildings,populations)
• Adjust starting armies
• Finish the map, place resources etc.
• Create the most important events, like the ones i mentioned before

So, there's quite a lot to do just get basic scenario running the way I want it. So far I have added some cities on approximate locations and tested unit spawning on certain date.

If someone wants to help adding cities or correcting city locations, or play test (not much to play test yet, though) in attachment is what I have hacked together so far.
To try this, mod's CvEventManager.py must be replaced with the one provided in the attachment. To get all civs placed in game, start custom scenario with the map file provided and select 18 different nations/barbarians (no double nations!).
.

 

[Fullerene]

2. But yes, the map does need Access to Europe tiles for the AI. Even in this mod, a human player uses trade routes for The Fair and Silk Road but the AI is not programmed yet to use those. They still use the generic Europe Screen and need ships to do this. I've concentrated on the players experience and haven't yet changed things up for the AI. It takes a lot of time and debugging to get the AI to act right and take advantage of the new rules so it just hasn't happened yet.

AI doesn't use peddlers and scouts for visiting commerce screen? Or did I misunderstood?

 

[mastrude]

I am having a much more pleasant game now after turning off the animal madness. I am playing a customer game with 4 competitors. I am very happy not to be dealing with Saracen raiders. I think it was the combination of rabid animals and Saracens that was driving me up the wall. I think the Saracens might be a bit too strong.

NOTE: Without the crazy animals and the Saracen raiders, this version is quicker and easier to win than v.1.5.

 

[Nightinggale]

Yes, I have tons of DefineInts.

I decided to search the code for getDefineINT and learned that there are 642 but only 297 unique ones. However they are very unevenly distributed.

Top 10:

 54 CIVICOPTION_INVENTIONS
 16 DIPLOMACY_VALUE_REMAINDER
 14 FATHER_POINT_REAL_TRADE
 12 AI_CHEAT_SPICE
 10 COMBAT_DAMAGE
 10 CALENDER_YEAR_FIRST_CHANGE_TURN
  9 PEACE_TREATY_LENGTH
  9 DEFAULT_KNIGHT_PROMOTION
  9 COMBAT_DIE_SIDES
  8 MEDIEVAL_TRADE_TECH
  8 AI_CHEAT_SPICE_BUY

Most are only called in one or two places. Sure this will not tell how often those places are called, only how many places they appear in the source. Still I have a pretty good idea of where it could be time effective to build a cache

297 * 4 bytes = 1188 bytes or a little more than 1 kB. Caching everything will not cause memory issues, but changing quite a number of them are likely called so rarely that changing the code for all of them has a poor cost/benefit.

 

[Kailric]

AI doesn't use peddlers and scouts for visiting commerce screen? Or did I misunderstood?

You are correct. They use ships to visit the vanilla Europe Screen. Which isn't even displayed in this Mod. You can however, Shift-Click the Immigration screen to bring up the old Europe Screen. The AI does, however, use the new Immigration system. The AI doesn't know how to use the Profession Peddler yet. They instead build Foreign Traders (think wagons) that look just like the Profession Peddler graphic. In essence the AI has an easier time than the player. Which is good, sense we are smarter

Edit: So, the AI will need a city on the coast in order to operate efficiently. Sounds like I need to update the AI to use the new system. I haven't even checked into this, it could be an easy fix or a complex one. I'm hoping easy

I am having a much more pleasant game now after turning off the animal madness. I am playing a customer game with 4 competitors. I am very happy not to be dealing with Saracen raiders. I think it was the combination of rabid animals and Saracens that was driving me up the wall. I think the Saracens might be a bit too strong.

NOTE: Without the crazy animals and the Saracen raiders, this version is quicker and easier to win than v.1.5.

I am glad of this for you. In the next update I'll make it so they spawn according to difficulty level. I am not sure if Saracen are even turned off with the player option but they only spawn from the Berber nation and yeah, they are Bad A**. They can virtually move any terrain instantly building ships to cross water and attack from the sea. My little pets (you can read pests). There was three major invasions during the "Viking Age", that being the Saracens, the Vikings of course, and the Magyars. Like I said the Berber are the only ones with Saracens, but I have planned to add Saracen like units for the Vikings and the Magyar nation. DON"T WORRY!! I will make sure to set them up according to difficulty

Edit: MASTRUDE!! Are you getting any of my PMs?

297 * 4 bytes = 1188 bytes or a little more than 1 kB. Caching everything will not cause memory issues, but changing quite a number of them are likely called so rarely that changing the code for all of them has a poor cost/benefit.

Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying changing the code for them really want benefit much?

 

[Nightinggale]

Edit: MASTRUDE!! Are you getting any of my PMs?

My first thought when I saw that line was him replying "What is PMs?"
However it's a very valid question and I will join in on the question. Did you get my PM?

Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying changing the code for them really want benefit much?

I'm saying that all 642 combined used 133,7 out of 717 seconds in my test. However it's likely unevenly distributed and 50 places may have used 100 seconds for all we know. Changing 642 places in the code is a lot of work. Some of them are used in popup windows, which means they are called once every time the popup appears. You will not really be able to tell the difference if those are cached.

What will make a difference is caching everything used in CvPlot::calculateNatureYield() because it's called so often.

I'm trying to optimize my time invested in how to cache instead of just caching everything, which would be very time consuming. After all the goal is to save time, not waste it

 

[Kailric]

If someone wants to help adding cities or correcting city locations, or play test (not much to play test yet, though) in attachment is what I have hacked together so far.
To try this, mod's CvEventManager.py must be replaced with the one provided in the attachment. To get all civs placed in game, start custom scenario with the map file provided and select 18 different nations/barbarians (no double nations!).
.

I checked out the map, pretty cool one. Each Civ will need access to Europe as the game is now however, so I just plopped down some Europe Tiles in the bodies of water and played a few rounds.

 

[Kailric]

One item we are contemplating adding to this mod is the Journeyman mod. I do have some concerns with that mod however but I believe they can be addressed. The main thing is I don't want the game to become unbalance with too many "Masters" and no peasantry.

One way to address this is reduce the chance of Masters immigrating to your realm. Make them very rare. Also, we may need to increase the price to Summon them to your realm.

Another way to balance it out is to make it so that Learning from Natives has diminishing returns, that is, after a while, depending on their attitude towards you, they would start charging a fee. And if their attitude was anything less than happy they may refuse all together. This would place more need for your Journeymen to graduate to Masters and Experts.

 

[mastrude]

Edit: MASTRUDE!! Are you getting any of my PMs?

I'm getting your PMS from the rabid animals. However I didn't see your PMs till just now.

 

[mastrude]

Bug report: When you put a fisherwoman in the back of a caravan from inside the settlements, the photos for all the goods in the warehouse get all screwy.

 

[Kailric]

Bug report: When you put a fisherwoman in the back of a caravan from inside the settlements, the photos for all the goods in the warehouse get all screwy.

Hmm, save game please or it didn't happen I haven't prepared for the contingency of the peasantry being loaded into the back of Caravans but as far as game play goes maybe its a good idea? I was testing things out just now. Peasants can't ride on the backs of peddlers (which is good for them) nor in Supply Wagons. And I can't remember if I planned on allowing them to ride in Caravans, it has been over two years sense I started this mod. Regardless, I just started a new game and didn't have a problem moving units from city screen to Caravan and vice versa so it must have something to do with the configuration of your city perhaps, post a save if you can.

 

[mastrude]

I suggest you ease up on max. settlement inhabitants by 1. This is preventing settlements from getting to economic viability and slowing the game down by quite a lot.

EDIT: But even so, this game is faster than v.1.5. A turn limit extension beyond 300 doesn't seem needed.

 

[Kailric]

I suggest you ease up on max. settlement inhabitants by 1. This is preventing settlements from getting to economic viability and slowing the game down by quite a lot.

EDIT: But even so, this game is faster than v.1.5. A turn limit extension beyond 300 doesn't seem needed.

Ok, in my testing the AI would try for a Conquest any where between 230 to 300 turns. So for them the extra 50 didn't do much either. However, they wasn't always really prepared for an invasion but this has more to do with AI choices than turns. Once I reloaded a game that the AI had lost. I had twenty turns to build up my forces. In those twenty turns I did what the AI could not do and defeated the Popey.

You can modify the max settlement population in the GlobalDefinesAlt.xml. Find the code below...

<Define>
[COLOR="SeaGreen"]This sets the initial max city population, change to 5 at add one more pop before max[/COLOR]
    <DefineName>MAX_CITY_POPULATION_VILLAGE</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>4</iDefineIntVal>
  </Define>
[COLOR="SeaGreen"]currently not used[/COLOR]
  <Define>
    <DefineName>MAX_CITY_POPULATION_TOWN</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>8</iDefineIntVal>
  </Define>
[COLOR="SeaGreen"]currently not used[/COLOR]
  <Define>
    <DefineName>MAX_CITY_POPULATION_BURGE</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>12</iDefineIntVal>
  </Define>
[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Once a city reaches a population of 11 then there is no more limits to max population, this int sets that value[/COLOR]
  <Define>
    <DefineName>MAX_CITY_POPULATION_COMMUNE</DefineName>
    <iDefineIntVal>11</iDefineIntVal>
  </Define>

 

[Kailric]

Well, I am headed out on vacation in the morning. Be gone ten days. I want be able to code but I will keep up with the forums.

I have a small update before I go...

View attachment 354121

Updates Log
Instructions:To install unzip the files then copy the /Assets folder in the zip. Paste the whole Folder over your Mods/Medieval/Assets folder. Say yes when asked if you want to merge or replace existing files. If there is more than one Update you must Paste them in their numerical/alphabetical order.

Verson 2.0a
-Hopefully Bandits/Animals wont take over your cities but rather just destroy them. Bandits and Animals should not even be entering cities so if they do please post a save where they enter a settlement the next turn
-changed the starting Max population to 5
-fixed a bug where the game would hang when you completed Banking trade research

 

[orlanth]

k, have a great vacation - it's well deserved and be sure to eat plenty of Luxury Food!

 

[mastrude]

I really like this mod, I think it's quite brilliant.

I agree!

 

[mastrude]

What puzzles me is that you are beaten and I can play just fine more or less without considering the bad guys. In fact my complain is their absence. I have started two games and both times I started right next to the native vikings and I get messages saying the vikings killed an animal or barbarian. They are so good at it that it rendered my hunter useless.

The game can be quite placid. When it gets tough is when the animals and bandits start swarming, toward the beginning and the Barbary Pirates cut off your supply route. I figured out how to beat those things--by starting to make my own weapons almost immediately. I have suggested to Kailric that he add something about this to the beginning-of-game help comments.

 

[Kailric]

The game can be quite placid. When it gets tough is when the animals and bandits start swarming, toward the beginning and the Barbary Pirates cut off your supply route. I figured out how to beat those things--by starting to make my own weapons almost immediately. I have suggested to Kailric that he add something about this to the beginning-of-game help comments.

Well, I do believe, thanks to Nightinggale, we have found and isolated the bug that was causing Deer and other unwanted vermin to wander into your cities. I'll prolly post another update tonight. And yeah, we can add more tutorials for that very reason you mention. In fact tutorials are easy to add and only require XML changes. That's something you could do, mastrude, if you felt up to it.

PS the Barbary pirates don't show up till the Viking Age... so you got till then to prepare. There could be a tutorial for that as well.

Edit: Scratch that on the new update tonight. Just not enough time to test everything before I leave in the morning