[MOD] Medieval: Conquests

[Nightinggale]

Got a situation in v.2 where the game won't let me put a serf in a schoolhouse.

Serfs can't study at natives either. However my Willy Trader can.

 

[Kailric]

Got a situation in v.2 where the game won't let me put a serf in a schoolhouse.
A deer conquered my settlement. When my worker tried to kill the deer, the game asked me if I wanted to go to war with Barbarian, then crashed.

You sure it was a deer? They are set to "Only Defend" and can not attack. I do see there is a bug where if the barbarians have captured a Treasure Unit then the game will ask if you want to got to war with them if you try to attack say a Deer that's in the same space as a treasure unit. Treasure Units will follow other Animals and Bandits around and need to be removed from existence for Barbarians to fix this.

My theory is somehow a Deer wandered into your village, seen all those skins hanging up, went mad, killed everyone, loaded up those skins, and then went looking for a place to bury them. Just not sure how the Deer ever managed to wander into your village.

Edit: If this happens for the moment, open world builder and just remove the treasure unit.

 

[Kailric]

Serfs can't study at natives either. However my Willy Trader can.

Oh yeah, serf's are "bound to the land" and can't do a lot of things like learn from natives or become Peddlers, the pedia explains this somewhat. Historically once a serf always a serf, but with the discover of Guilds your towns will produce Peasants instead of serfs. In history, if a serf could escape to a "Commune", a large town, and live there for a year they was considered freemen.

They should be able to be educated though, I just tested this and they can. However, I forgot to mention in version 2.0 there is a Max Population limit. If a town reaches that max no one can join until the infrastructure is changed. Hover over the Join Settlement command or while in city screen hover over the City Name to get some help on the matter.

Edit: We could set it up so that serfs can only travel within the players borders.

 

[Nightinggale]

Now I played with profiling on for a while. I ended up playing 717 seconds and I learned the following:

The most used functions are:
CvGlobal::getDefineINT 133.7s
FVariableSystem::GetValue 132.24s
CvPlot::calculateNatureYield 126.75s

The first two have a design which makes them ideal for caching. In fact RaR caches most of the calls to those two, making them almost instantaneous.

I looked at the calculateNatureYield in RaRE and it appears to be tricky to do anything about.

The really good news is that I don't get "this invention slows everything to a crawl" or anything like that. Making something which is noteworthy faster shouldn't be tricky.

The really jerky interface is gone. I have no idea what happened. When it slowed like that I was exploring with a scout and it took like a second (or more?) from I pressed the key to move until it started moving.

EDIT:

They should be able to be educated though, I just tested this and they can. However, I forgot to mention in version 2.0 there is a Max Population limit. If a town reaches that max no one can join until the infrastructure is changed. Hover over the Join Settlement command or while in city screen hover over the City Name to get some help on the matter.

Edit: We could set it up so that serfs can only travel within the players borders.

Sounds reasonable that they should stay within your own boarders. After all serfs had restricted movement because the lord of the land didn't want all his subjects to move away (like to the new world).
However it seems odd that my Willy Trader could study at the natives. Is that intensional?
Also if serfs can't study at the natives, doesn't that make it tricky to learn the native only traits?

 

[Kailric]

Now I played with profiling on for a while. I ended up playing 717 seconds and I learned the following:

The most used functions are:
CvGlobal::getDefineINT 133.7s
FVariableSystem::GetValue 132.24s
CvPlot::calculateNatureYield 126.75s

The first two have a design which makes them ideal for caching. In fact RaR caches most of the calls to those two, making them almost instantaneous.

I looked at the calculateNatureYield in RaRE and it appears to be tricky to do anything about.

The really good news is that I don't get "this invention slows everything to a crawl" or anything like that. Making something which is noteworthy faster shouldn't be tricky.

The really jerky interface is gone. I have no idea what happened. When it slowed like that I was exploring with a scout and it took like a second (or more?) from I pressed the key to move until it started moving.

EDIT:

Sounds reasonable that they should stay within your own boarders. After all serfs had restricted movement because the lord of the land didn't want all his subjects to move away (like to the new world).
However it seems odd that my Willy Trader could study at the natives. Is that intensional?
Also if serfs can't study at the natives, doesn't that make it tricky to learn the native only traits?

Yes, I have tons of DefineInts. Good news then, glad the choppiness is gone. Maybe it had something to do with caching the graphics. Like in a lot of games the first time a graphic or scene is loaded it slows the game but after that your good to go.

Well, even when Serfs where about there was still "Freemen", the list is as follows...

Slaves - can not learn and domestic travel only, not as good in all production
Serfs- can not learn and domestic travel only
Criminals- can not learn from natives, but can be Peddlers and get a discount on land purchases, not as good in manufacturing
Cottar- these are freemen but are homeless. They slept in "Cots", or what we call modern day mobile homes, can not found new settlements, not as good in manufacturing, make good Peddlers
Peasant- the Freemen, they can do it all and no penalties. You get these through immigration until you research Guilds
Experts and Masters- are Freemen same as Peasants

About Wily Traders, the reason they can learn is I never changed their NativeLearnTime Attribute to 0. They are not Specialist like a Expert Farmer would be, they simply just gain a bonus when Peddlers and are No Bad Goodies as well. Any other Specialist Unit can Learn from Natives they just need to "Clear Specialty" first. With Wily Traders you just don't have to do that.

Edit: It would be cool though if Wily Traders could learn a skill from the Natives but still have the Wily Trader promotioin bonsues. At the moment the bonuses are tide to the unit itself, once you change the unit the bonuses are gone. There could however be a new attribute added to UnitInfos where a unit keeps his native free promotions even if he changes his Specialty.

 

[mastrude]

My guide is too obsolete to be useful in it's current form, and I'm withdrawing it from public view.

 

[Kailric]

My guide is too obsolete to be useful in it's current form, and I'm withdrawing it from public view.

Heh, sorry buddy, I tried to tell you there was some major changes coming. This is all for play testing though. One thing I wanted to ask you, in this version I have removed workers building Castles with lumber supplies. This was a bit buggy as you pointed out but do you think you will miss it or was it something that added to the strategy and fun?

Keep in mind your are play testing and none of the game mechanics are "wrote in stone". When I play a game I always think in those terms, I think this would be cooler if you could do this or that. So, don't view it like a critic would but rather figure out what would make it better or improved.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Well I am having a lot of fun with my game, the new trade theatres are great, I am having a lot of fun with my professional merchants marching and sailing back and forth and making tonnes of money!

I am not sure if the Traders League is a bit over powered (I assume it is the trade points turned into gold when you have discovered everything?) I am getting about 30000 gold a turn now (not that i am complaining all that much it is fun to be so rich it is hard to spend it ) (I am playing marathon though) I really enjoy the trade point discovery system. The Merchant Guild is cool, allowing you to make your local trade even more profitable, maybe the city state faction could have a Banker's Guild that takes it to 200%?

The other extra stuff you have added is cool too, the gold generating buildings etc. I haven't yet fully got into the knights system, I have had 1 specialist become a knight so far but i haven't tooled him out yet, I haven't had a worker build a castle, so I am not really missing that feature, the soldier founding outposts is good enough for me.

With Monasteries can you only found one? or is there some other kind of limit, because i sent a monk to found a second and he just made a normal settlement.

The turns are taking quite a long time, right from the beginning, I am guessing there are just a lot of new functions going on.

I like the max. pop system, it is annoying but it means you have to make choice on what towns will do, it also makes you spread out and found new settlements which is good.

All in all I am enjoying my game, I stopped because it froze and I have to reload an auto save, I am thinking this is just a game engine problem rather than the mod specifically though.

 

[Kailric]

Well I am having a lot of fun with my game, the new trade theatres are great, I am having a lot of fun with my professional merchants marching and sailing back and forth and making tonnes of money!

I am not sure if the Traders League is a bit over powered (I assume it is the trade points turned into gold when you have discovered everything?) I am getting about 30000 gold a turn now (not that i am complaining all that much it is fun to be so rich it is hard to spend it ) (I am playing marathon though) I really enjoy the trade point discovery system. The Merchant Guild is cool, allowing you to make your local trade even more profitable, maybe the city state faction could have a Banker's Guild that takes it to 200%?

Yeah, I would say the Traders League is over powered with 30,000 gold a turn!! I forgot to mention that the game is set up for Normal length.. I'll have to look into adjusting things for the different game Speeds. And yeah, It converts your trade points into gold. I really wasn't sure how much that would end up being though each turn.

The other extra stuff you have added is cool too, the gold generating buildings etc. I haven't yet fully got into the knights system, I have had 1 specialist become a knight so far but i haven't tooled him out yet, I haven't had a worker build a castle, so I am not really missing that feature, the soldier founding outposts is good enough for me.

As of 2.0 workers can't build castles anyway as most people said the same thing about it.

With Monasteries can you only found one? or is there some other kind of limit, because i sent a monk to found a second and he just made a normal settlement.

Ill check this out, you should be able to build as many monasteries as you want.

The turns are taking quite a long time, right from the beginning, I am guessing there are just a lot of new functions going on.

Yeah, we are working to improve this.

I like the max. pop system, it is annoying but it means you have to make choice on what towns will do, it also makes you spread out and found new settlements which is good.

That's what I was aiming at, to add a little strategy. It can be turned off easily enough if it does become just too annoying. After a city reaches a certain pop it no longer gets effected by over Pop warnings.

All in all I am enjoying my game, I stopped because it froze and I have to reload an auto save, I am thinking this is just a game engine problem rather than the mod specifically though.

If you can post a saved game. Thanks so much for testing things out! There are some bugs with the Barbarians that I am fixing as well. I may upload an update tomorrow.

 

[Nightinggale]

One thing I wanted to ask you, in this version I have removed workers building Castles with lumber supplies. This was a bit buggy as you pointed out but do you think you will miss it or was it something that added to the strategy and fun?

I'm not sure I like the concept of buildings needing lumber. Lumber is used by carpenter meaning it's consumed by the city. Logistics can make it tricky to supply the city with enough stock to supply the carpenter each turn AND have extra for the building.

Keep in mind your are play testing and none of the game mechanics are "wrote in stone". When I play a game I always think in those terms, I think this would be cooler if you could do this or that. So, don't view it like a critic would but rather figure out what would make it better or improved.

I will complain whenever something I spot something which isn't ideal. Like in my last game I send a ship towards the spice market and it spent around 20 turns exploring before I realized I had settled next to a huge lake. It seriously took like 20 turns to explore
At least I wasn't the only one with that problem. 4 other civs had settled next to that lake.

I have yet to actually build a city next to the ocean (the real one) and send a ship to the spice market. I tend to start far from the coast. Maybe my mapsize is too big, but it should work with all map sizes.

With Monasteries can you only found one? or is there some other kind of limit, because i sent a monk to found a second and he just made a normal settlement.

Works for me. You have to found with a unit with monk profession. An expert monk with free colonist profession will not found a monastery.
I did at one time in 1.5 have a monk and a free colonist (or a soldier, can't remember) together and learned the hard way that the B key will NOT make a monastery in that setup. Both buttons are available though and you can click them with the mouse.

The turns are taking quite a long time, right from the beginning, I am guessing there are just a lot of new functions going on.

Look a few posts back and I mention I profiled for 717 seconds (a bit long. I forgot it was profiling ). I mentioned that I can likely reduce CPU load by maybe as much as 250 seconds by introducing caches for XML values. But yeah so far performance haven't been the main point of interest. I intent to change that.

 

[mastrude]

Heh, sorry buddy, I tried to tell you there were some major changes coming.

I'm not complaining.

 

[orlanth]

Anchors away and set sail for the Spice Route with this trade achievement vid!

Link to video.​

bik version uploaded to https://sourceforge.net/projects/col2071/files/spiceroute.zip

 

[Nightinggale]

I'm not complaining.

No but you intended to do so and Kailric foiled your plan

Anchors away and set sail for the Spice Route with this trade achievement vid!

That looks really cool. The only thing which worries me is that it might not be that interesting the 30th time you get the spice route.

 

[orlanth]

Thanks Nightingale! Yeah there should be a way to easily click & skip it for people who've seen it a lot, or turn vids off in gameoptions. It's only 2 though, so not anywhere near as many as the wonder movies in Civ.

 

[mastrude]

I don't understand the "build a home" mechanic. Is it true that the specialist builds his home work site and then disappears? I didn't see this in the 'pedia.

EDIT: No, I see, he builds his trade building. Then he's in it.

 

[Kailric]

I will complain whenever something I spot something which isn't ideal. Like in my last game I send a ship towards the spice market and it spent around 20 turns exploring before I realized I had settled next to a huge lake. It seriously took like 20 turns to explore

This made me lol quite a bit. Can you imagine your guide says, "Here, Sir, is a great spot right next to the ocean!". Then 20 turns later your like, "This ain't an ocean, it's a damn big arce lake!!! Stupid guide!" OK, yeah, I hadn't planned for those types of contingencies. Not sure what to do about that, it actually makes it real to life as you have no idea really what's on the other side of the horizon.

I don't understand the "build a home" mechanic. Is it true that the specialist builds his home work site and then disappears? I didn't see this in the 'pedia.

Yeah, I totally forgot about that addition. Some units (defined in the XML) have the ability to add their preferred place of business to the settlement. They can only do this once and the unit is not consumed in the process. This was intended to help speed up building the infrastructure of your settlements, as in this mod you have fewer buildings to start with. So, when your Baker arrives from immigration you can instantly set him up shop and not have to wait all those turns.

And thanks, orlanth, great show! By default all videos can instantly be skipped by hitting esc key.

 

[mastrude]

When a beast unit, buck or black bear, attacks my town, none of the field or town workers fight it. If I recapture the town, they're still at work in the fields. That ain't right.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Works for me. You have to found with a unit with monk profession. An expert monk with free colonist profession will not found a monastery.

That would explain why the monk did not work, when I bought new monks they founded extra ones fine, i must have accidentally set him to peasant when he left the city

All in all marathon seems to be scaling quite well, apart from having ooodles of money (which is still fun, I am able to buy any building I want or purchase a heap of trebuchet, or anything else for that matter in a single turn ) I am building myself quite the medieval empire! Hey Popey! Come and have a go if ya think ya hard enough! (well don't come just yet I still need to tool up knights!)

The Trade Levels are a lot of fun, maybe add in some extra levels that decrease travel time off map, or add to prosperity or fealty, to help you prepare for the end game. As your merchants bring in more wealth they help to increase the overall prosperity and loyalty of your kingdom. It will also be cool to see the silk road with a land route off map made, so that building a well defended route to the edge of the map will help to maximise your cash flow!

 

[Kailric]

When a beast unit, buck or black bear, attacks my town, none of the field or town workers fight it. If I recapture the town, they're still at work in the fields. That ain't right.

Ok, something fishy is going on with the Animals. For one Bucks are incapable of attacking, Bores also. They can only defend. And they should not be capturing towns. I'll check into this thoroughly in the morning.

By the way, what settings are you using when you start your game? I only test using the default Map, THE_NEW_WORLD, and just use the quick start. Custom games sometimes cause problems like these.

 

[mastrude]

By the way, what settings are you using when you start your game? I only test using the default Map, THE_NEW_WORLD, and just use the quick start. Custom games sometimes cause problems like these.

I had changed the map to Caribbean and it was a custom game on pilgrim difficulty. It was one of those carnivorous Bucks all right.