[MOD] Medieval: Conquests

[Kailric]

How about terrain affecting strength? Cavalry is worse in forests than in open land and archers prefers standing on a hilltop and so on. Possibly archers shouldn't get crossing river penalty. It might even be beneficial if they can shoot at melee units, which is slowed by the river (read: extra first strike when attacked from across a river).

Game related again
I'm not sure if this should be implemented in the game. Maybe weapons should be multiple yields, but if bows just use wood then it defeats the purpose of getting rare slow growing trees. Still the concept of "I actually want unit A but I have to use unit B because of the needed resources to make them" would be a nice addition.

Well, its been discussed about the multiple weapon yields, and while that sounds interesting I do not want to add to the complexity of the military just yet, especially considering I did add in multiple Armors. And with my addition of Alternate Equipment and new Armors you do have the "want A but have to use B" addition somewhat. One way we could introduce the Yew bow for Longbowmen would be to add Yew as a new resource you can only get from Natives(Longbows orginated from Welsh Hunters), much like I have for Spices and now Silk, you could limit its acquisition that way.

All very good suggestions and realistic, though. What I like is realistic but fun. I can easily create Automatic Promotions per Profession for things like you suggest. Well, considering there is already a Terrain Defense bonus so all units have a penalty for attacking into forests or hills even. Through Promotions they can eliminate that penalty however. Well, sense all units are at base equal adding a additional penalty to Mounted Units for forests attacks seems to fit.

So...
Mounted Units -30% Attack for Forest, -20% Light Forest
Archers +20% Defending from Hills or Behind Walls, No Penalty Attacking across River

With these bonuses/penalties it will make Archers more defensive as they should be and make it so you will have to send in Skirmishers to handle fortified units in wooded areas.

I am going to give the "Charge" promotion a First Stirke ability for Mounted Units. It makes sense sense a Cavalries initial charge was most damaging and is similar in concept to a First Strike. Early Cavalries usually dismounted after this first charge.

I like the extra first strike too for Archers being attacked across rivers but I will have to code that in so I may wait and do that at a later update.

 

[mastrude]

I don't never ast no favors, but... I've just gotten my butt kicked in five successive, fairly plausible efforts on the easiest setting of the game. Vanilla Colonization is no cinch to beat either, even on Pioneer. Here's a suggestion: What if Il Papa waited for 350 turns on pioneer, 325 oin the next up, etc.

 

[Kailric]

I don't never ast no favors, but... I've just gotten my butt kicked in five successive, fairly plausible efforts on the easiest setting of the game. Vanilla Colonization is no cinch to beat either, even on Pioneer. Here's a suggestion: What if Il Papa waited for 350 turns on pioneer, 325 oin the next up, etc.

So, You completed some games then without a crash I assume? I ran a couple AI sessions to see how they fair and they didn't do so well either. But there was only a few minor bugs found so this next version is pretty stable I hope.

I like the idea of a short game, you have 300 turns to prepare your Kingdom and another 100 to defeat the Pope so that's what I am shooting for. The whole Idea is to build up your forces in time enough to withstand his onslaught. So, if that is extremely hard to do then we should either tone down his Army or make it easier to gain soldiers.

Your defeats was it attributed to not having enough Weapons, or Armor, or Troops to do battle with?

 

[mastrude]

So, You completed some games then without a crash I assume? I ran a couple AI sessions to see how they fare and they didn't do so well either. But there was only a few minor bugs found so this next version is pretty stable I hope.

I like the idea of a short game, you have 300 turns to prepare your Kingdom and another 100 to defeat the Pope so that's what I am shooting for. The whole Idea is to build up your forces in time enough to withstand his onslaught. So, if that is extremely hard to do then we should either tone down his Army or make it easier to gain soldiers.

Your defeats was it attributed to not having enough Weapons, or Armor, or Troops to do battle with?

Yes, no more crashes recently. I think we should ignore the crashes I had and move on to your next version.

In the fourth game I had lots of weapons but not enough soldiers.

In the fifth game I had plenty of soldiers but not enough weapons and armor. I achieved stonework on the very turn that the pope declared war--too late. I never got to longbows and crossbows. I also think I may have built too many specialized settlements.

It seems that winning the game depends on the luck of how many researchers the game gives you. That has seemed to make all the difference. Maybe you could let people buy them? Also, the Pope's forces are so strong relative to mine that it takes two or three of mine to kill one of his.

Let me ask my question again: What percentage of settler-difficulty games do you think an experienced but new player should win?

I feel like I'm whining here--sorry! I am in fact a fairly lousy Civ player, even with thousands of hours of play. I think you need to be immersed in the Civ community to figure out a lot of the fine points of the game. When the game is in beta or just released is when other players take the time to analyze what the game is doing in detail. I've never been able to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

By the way, to keep from being crowded off the map, I've been reducing the number of of other civs all they way down to three.

I very much appreciate your working with me.

 

[mastrude]

It's true that the help text says it must be a coastal city, but is this real-world reasonable?

 

[Kailric]

Ok, hey, post me some of your saved games so I can analyze the data. So, It sounds to me that you are not able to research Techs fast enough to be a match for the AI. If you have all the last Techs that upgrade units then your units should be a good match.

I've added a couple or so more techs in this last update but I believe that I have decreased tech cost. My ideal goal would be to have nearly all the techs researched, maybe two or three left to go by turn 300.

And, well, on the lower difficulty the player should win nearly everytime.

 

[Kailric]

It's true that the help text says it must be a coastal city, but is this real-world reasonable?

Thats a valid point, and would be a cool addition if you can build docks on lakes. I'll code that one in if its simple this patch.

 

[mastrude]

I've had enough of this mod for now.

Just two of my frustration: How can it be that heavy infantry can be fortified on a mountain top and the papal knights and pikemen just wipe them out whenever they feel like it? How is it that knights can target trebuchets when there are fortified heavy infantry on the same square.

Too tough.

 

[mastrude]

Ok, hey, post me some of your saved games so I can analyze the data. So, It sounds to me that you are not able to research Techs fast enough to be a match for the AI. If you have all the last Techs that upgrade units then your units should be a good match.

I've added a couple or so more techs in this last update but I believe that I have decreased tech cost. My ideal goal would be to have nearly all the techs researched, maybe two or three left to go by turn 300.

And, well, on the lower difficulty the player should win nearly every time.

Nope. Not winning even once on pioneer difficulty.

Did get to stonework and longbows last time, but I was not nearly almost done with the tech tree.

This is not fun. Am I an idiot? Are people winning this game?

 

[Nightinggale]

The next version should have some major changes. I think it would be better to wait for that one before making balance changes. I agree that it certainly isn't the easiest mod available and might be too hard on the easiest levels. However fixing it takes a lot of thinking and play testing to get right and future additions disturbs the balance again.

Am I an idiot?

Yes, but that's unrelated to how you play the game
(that is always a dangerous question)

 

[mastrude]

Yes, but that's unrelated to how you play the game

All too true.

 

[mastrude]

I couldn't stay away.

I was shocked! -- shocked! -- that longbowmen don't get a city defense bonus. This is unrealistic. Please consider adding this to your list.

However I just got my butt kicked one more time, so I'm gone again.

 

[Kailric]

I couldn't stay away.

I was shocked! -- shocked! -- that longbowmen don't get a city defense bonus. This is unrealistic. Please consider adding this to your list.

However I just got my butt kicked one more time, so I'm gone again.

Well, I have made changes to the Longbowman, he now has 2 first strikes. Also, you can "train" your archers (leave them fortified for 5 turns at a city) and then give them the Garrison I promotion and then there is your city bonus Thanks so much for your play testing and your posts though. Sorry its tough at the moment.

Everyone has their own playstyle so it's hard to mold a game to accommodate everyones style of play. One problem is that I, like a lot of others, didn't like the idea of settlements starting with lots of building so it takes longer to build up your towns to even start making Weapons and Armor, so maybe it should be a longer game with that in mind.

In fact I'll change the normal game to 400 turns till Conquest begins. You can change your game now. Just open up CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml in a text editor and change the code below to 400 like in red...

<GameSpeedInfo>
<Type>GAMESPEED_NORMAL</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_NORMAL</Description>
	<Help>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_NORMAL_HELP</Help>
	<iGrowthPercent>100</iGrowthPercent>
	<iStoragePercent>100</iStoragePercent>
	<iTrainPercent>100</iTrainPercent>
	<iConstructPercent>100</iConstructPercent>
	<iFatherPercent>100</iFatherPercent>
	<iGreatGeneralPercent>100</iGreatGeneralPercent>
	<iRevolutionTurns>100</iRevolutionTurns>
	<GameTurnInfos>
	<GameTurnInfo>
	<iMonthIncrement>12</iMonthIncrement>
	<iTurnsPerIncrement>[COLOR="Red"]400[/COLOR]</iTurnsPerIncrement>
       </GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>
</GameSpeedInfo>

 

[Babjatekos]

Well, I have made changes to the Longbowman, he now has 2 first strikes. Also, you can "train" your archers (leave them fortified for 5 turns at a city) and then give them the Garrison I promotion and then there is your city bonus Thanks so much for your play testing and your posts though. Sorry its tough at the moment.

Everyone has their own playstyle so it's hard to mold a game to accommodate everyones style of play. One problem is that I, like a lot of others, didn't like the idea of settlements starting with lots of building so it takes longer to build up your towns to even start making Weapons and Armor, so maybe it should be a longer game with that in mind.

In fact I'll change the normal game to 400 turns till Conquest begins. You can change your game now. Just open up CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml in a text editor and change the code below to 400 like in red...

<GameSpeedInfo>
<Type>GAMESPEED_NORMAL</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_NORMAL</Description>
	<Help>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_NORMAL_HELP</Help>
	<iGrowthPercent>100</iGrowthPercent>
	<iStoragePercent>100</iStoragePercent>
	<iTrainPercent>100</iTrainPercent>
	<iConstructPercent>100</iConstructPercent>
	<iFatherPercent>100</iFatherPercent>
	<iGreatGeneralPercent>100</iGreatGeneralPercent>
	<iRevolutionTurns>100</iRevolutionTurns>
	<GameTurnInfos>
	<GameTurnInfo>
	<iMonthIncrement>12</iMonthIncrement>
	<iTurnsPerIncrement>[COLOR="Red"]400[/COLOR]</iTurnsPerIncrement>
       </GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>
</GameSpeedInfo>

I wanted to ask that where do I found that 300 turn
but I have only the original CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml in the original folder, I dont find it in the mods xml folder :-/
I have to make a CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml in the mods xml/gameinfo folder with that kind of lines in it?

by the way its an amazing mod! keep ut up!

 

[Babjatekos]

okey question is inessential, problem solved

 

[Hrvoje193]

It's very nice to see this mod alive again, I enjoyed it very much some time ago.

 

[Kailric]

It's very nice to see this mod alive again, I enjoyed it very much some time ago.

Yeah, I didn't realize that file wasn't in the mod yet. So yeah, move it to the mod folder and edit it there. Right now I am testing the AI and it is having difficulties with the difficulties as well so I am having to balance things for them. When that's done ill be just about ready to release next version.

Thanks, Hrvoje193, I have added a lot to this next update and I hope it's not too much. I have been having a blast though testing it out.

 

[mastrude]

Thanks very much! I actually think 400 turns may be more than I need, so I'm going to try 350 and 375. Great mod! I think I will make some change to the Privateers mod too, maybe an extra 25 turns.

By the way, what's a good freeware XML editor? I have Microsoft Infopath, but it expects the schema in a different filetype and doesn't like Civ's schemas.

Also by the way, I played a good game, but not particularly lucky, and it took me 300 turns just to have the base to build an army.

 

[Kailric]

Thanks very much! I actually think 400 turns may be more than I need, so I'm going to try 350 and 375. Great mod! I think I will make some change to the Privateers mod too, maybe an extra 25 turns.

By the way, what's a good freeware XML editor? I have Microsoft Infopath, but it expects the schema in a different filetype and doesn't like Civ's schemas.

Also by the way, I played a good game, but not particularly lucky, and it took me 300 turns just to have the base to build an army.

I use Visual Web Developer 2008 Express Edition from Microsoft and I haven't had any problems with it that I can remember. And don't get burt out on the mod just yet I'll need you to test the newest update I been working with the AI still getting the game where they can actually play it, it's getting closer.

 

[Nightinggale]

By the way, what's a good freeware XML editor? I have Microsoft Infopath, but it expects the schema in a different filetype and doesn't like Civ's schemas.

http://modiki.civfanatics.com/index.php/Civ4_Useful_Programs#XML_Programs

However so far I have made all my XML edits in notepad++ meaning I get no aid other than syntax highlights. I guess "good" depends on the user.

Btw if the turn limit can't be removed by settings (nobody figures out how/nobody investigates), then a hack solution would be to set iTurnsPerIncrement to 40000 or a million. Hats off to whoever reach that
Still the best solution would be to make it react correctly to victory conditions. It's not unlikely that I will take a look if it's still broken in next release.