Mod-Modders Guide to Fall Further

[Iceciro]

If the unit you are upgrading to has a religion assigned in UnitInfos, then when upgrading to that unit the one in UnitInfos is retained, regardless of what the unit had previously.

That'll do just fine - I can then make changing the religion by making the unit able to upgrade into variants of itself with different religions.

 

[Omegon3]

That really depends.
What features have you imported, I'll try to noodle this out and see what could be causing BTS to be totally explodey.

I THOUGHT that there was some way to enable a more extensive "debugger" to trap the error that was causing the issue...??? So far as the features that I've imported, they hit almost every XML in the book including some that I have never touched before (for example, CivColor, CivicOptions, Civics, Promotions, etc.). Orbis has done some pretty cool things that I thought would go nicely with FF including a "mechanically-based" civ (the Mechanos). While I'm pretty confident that NOT everything will work (likely dependent on the DLLs to call some of the python routines), I gave it my best shot.

These changes touched several civs, though I didn't include their modifications to the Scions (retained all the FF version -- heck, you guys invented them!!!) and opted NOT to make only a single race of lizard men (they only have the Mazatl -- electing to split good and evil via their leaders). They also added leaders for almost every civ that I that would be "nice" (nothing like having a bunch of different leaders from which to choose...). They even added several new traits -- one particularly interesting ("minor") which basically adds traits as the game progresses (a little different than adding traits from unique terrain features though they appeared to also add this feature from FF).

I also liked their "shapeshifter" spell (between human, wolf, and bear forms), but I'm about 80% confident that this isn't going to work in my "merge" due to the nature of the changes -- including python modifications.

Anyway, if you know the technique for advanced debugging I would REALLY welcome the advice. Right now I'm at square "0" so far as progressing on this "modmodmod" to FF.

Thanks.

 

[xienwolf]

You may want to look at Fall Further+, they incorporated the Mechanos at the least, and a few other Orbis features.

 

[Valkrionn]

Orbis has done some pretty cool things that I thought would go nicely with FF including a "mechanically-based" civ (the Mechanos).

They also added leaders for almost every civ that I that would be "nice" (nothing like having a bunch of different leaders from which to choose...). They even added several new traits -- one particularly interesting ("minor") which basically adds traits as the game progresses (a little different than adding traits from unique terrain features though they appeared to also add this feature from FF).

Just thought I'd mention this... The Mechanos were imported to FFPlus, albeit tweaked to fit in the different tech tree, and changed somewhat as well... Gave them a 'religion', for example. Ordo Machinarum, founded when they settle their first city, increases science output. Basically represents the belief that mankind can become the equal of any god through the power of our intellects... More a driving principle than a religion, but hey.

Also, the Minor trait actually came from Notque's Minor Leaders mod. He's actually an FF team member, but hasn't been on in quite a while, and Minor was never merged in... I brought it over to FFPlus, along with many, many new leaders. Although, they'll be changing mechanics soon.

Edit: Agh! I was beaten to the punch... Can't even advertise my own modmodmod first.

 

[WarKirby]

Also, the Minor trait actually came from Notque's Minor Leaders mod. He's actually an FF team member, but hasn't been on in quite a while....

A long while

He's been MIA since before I joined, and hasn't shown up yet.

 

[Omegon3]

Just thought I'd mention this... The Mechanos were imported to FFPlus, albeit tweaked to fit in the different tech tree, and changed somewhat as well... Gave them a 'religion', for example. Ordo Machinarum, founded when they settle their first city, increases science output. Basically represents the belief that mankind can become the equal of any god through the power of our intellects... More a driving principle than a religion, but hey.

Also, the Minor trait actually came from Notque's Minor Leaders mod. He's actually an FF team member, but hasn't been on in quite a while, and Minor was never merged in... I brought it over to FFPlus, along with many, many new leaders. Although, they'll be changing mechanics soon.

Edit: Agh! I was beaten to the punch... Can't even advertise my own modmodmod first.

I guess that I'm WAY late for the party...

Still, if ANYONE knows how to perform extensive debugging, I would really appreciate the help. Since I've now spent hours working on this "modmodmod" I would like to at least finish it and right now I'm at a stand-still.

Thanks.

 

[Iceciro]

*grumble grumble* I don't suppose there's any way to DENY access to a unit based on having a certain trait?

Without going into Python.

 

[xienwolf]

Hrm... you could maybe do so using ProductionTraits to make the cost go negative.

 

[Iceciro]

Alright, so new question: The units I touch in UnitInfo within my module do not appear to be inheriting their defense stats from the normal XML - I'm not touching anything related to combat, but they're all showing up with no defensive strength.
EDIT: Can get around it for now by using iCombatDefense to whatever it normally would be.

EDIT: Disabling units through PrereqTraits doesn't appear to work, only promotions. >_<
So much for Xiven for now.

 

[xienwolf]

Yeah, the Default Value for Defense is being the same as Combat (rather than a constant number like for most other fields), so I have to review my logic for deciding if I should update the defense or not. I probably didn't account for the combat strength being left as 0 in how I set things up for deciding if Combat Defense should update or not.

Alternatively I may go back to having defense just default to 0, but that will mean having to update almost every unit in unitinfos to specifically list their defense once again.

 

[2Hydroclopse]

In Xml/Technologies/CivTechInfos what is the functionality <era></era> tags.

Or more specifically, would anything be harmed if I added all the new techs to the ancient era classification?

 

[Iceciro]

EDIT: Nevermind, that's not the issue. Something else is the issue. *grumbles*

 

[Opera]

What is the difference between BuildingTypes and ForceBuilding in UnitInfos?

I added a unique replacement of the Academy (buildable by a Great Sage) for a civilization and it is buildable at any time like a normal building. However, when I get a Great Sage, I can still build a regular Academy in a city that has the replacement building.

So, my question is: would moving Academy to BuildingTypes fix that? And would moving Academy out of ForceBuilding cause issues?

 

[xienwolf]

<era> in TechInfos just controls what is given out for free if someone decides to start their game in an era other than Ancient (which some people seem to like doing, even though it has caused numerous issues in the past, I believe most of them are cleared up now). If the Tech is meant for a single Civ only, place it in Era_Never so it cannot come out as a freebie unless the player is specifically aiming for it.


UnitInfos: ForceBuilding puts that building in that city, unless the city already has it. BuildingTypes allows the unit to construct that building in that city if that city would have been able ot build it anyway. (So Altar of Luonnotar must be Forced, cannot ever build it, but everything from Supplies is BuildingType, can't get it without the right tech)

 

[sylvain5477]

I'm surprised about something I haven't pay attention to before, about unit art and button.
I created new "Art" reference for the Tears in TEARS_CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml, which I then use in TEARS_CIV4UnitInfos.xml to create groups of unit.

One group is finally one "Unit" in civ way, as you actually build only one group at a time. So you should need une button (to build) for a group.

However from what I understand, I have to set one button per unit "art" (in TEARS_CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml) instead of one button per unit group (in TEARS_CIV4UnitInfos.xml).

It does not seem logic at all, and as I would like to use the same art is several different groups, I must have a problem.

Have I misunderstood something or do I have to duplicate the same art for each group in which it is used to go around this strange system and get unique button per unit group ?

 

[Sephi]

In Xml/Technologies/CivTechInfos what is the functionality <era></era> tags.

Or more specifically, would anything be harmed if I added all the new techs to the ancient era classification?

era in Techs are important when you start a game in a later Era (you are given all techs of previous eras for free)

 

[Opera]

Thanks xienwolf

 

[xienwolf]

I'm surprised about something I haven't pay attention to before, about unit art and button.
I created new "Art" reference for the Tears in TEARS_CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml, which I then use in TEARS_CIV4UnitInfos.xml to create groups of unit.

One group is finally one "Unit" in civ way, as you actually build only one group at a time. So you should need une button (to build) for a group.

However from what I understand, I have to set one button per unit "art" (in TEARS_CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml) instead of one button per unit group (in TEARS_CIV4UnitInfos.xml).

It does not seem logic at all, and as I would like to use the same art is several different groups, I must have a problem.

Have I misunderstood something or do I have to duplicate the same art for each group in which it is used to go around this strange system and get unique button per unit group ?

Yes, if you want to use the same NIF, but a different button, you need a new Art Define. If I am understanding your question properly.

 

[sylvain5477]

Yes, if you want to use the same NIF, but a different button, you need a new Art Define. If I am understanding your question properly.

Actually, it is a bit more complicated

I have in TEARS_CIV4ArtDefines_Unit.xml :

ART1 : NIF1, BUTTON1
ART2 : NIF2, BUTTON2
ART3 : NIF3, BUTTON3

And in TEARS_CIV4UnitInfos.xml :

UNIT1 : ART1, ART1, ART2, ART2, ART3 => BUTTON1 (?)
UNIT2 : ART1, ART2, ART2, ART2, ART2 => BUTTON1 (again!)
UNIT3 : ART2, ART2 => BUTTON2
UNIT4 : ART2, ART2, ART2, ART3, ART3 => BUTTON2 (again!)
UNIT5 : ART3 => BUTTON3

You see my problem ?
I do not find it logical that the button is not defined in the UNIT Xml instead of the ART Xml, this way:

ART1 : NIF1
ART2 : NIF2
ART3 : NIF3
UNIT1 : ART1, ART1, ART2, ART2, ART3, BUTTON1
UNIT2 : ART1, ART2, ART2, ART2, ART2, BUTTON2
UNIT3 : ART2, ART2, BUTTON3
UNIT4 : ART2, ART2, ART2, ART3, ART3, BUTTON4
UNIT5 : ART3, BUTTON5

 

[xienwolf]

Hrm... the definition of a button for the unit does seem rather superfluous, have you tried not defining that one and seeing what the result is? I am almost 100% certain that the button utilized is that of the first NIF pointed at through Art Defines. It would be kinda nice if they had it so that the button was set by unitinfos though with how much unit recycling is done in the game, so MAYBE that one does override things. I know if you set up a racial artstyle through promotion that will override most things, and links through art defines, so I am reasonably certain that the button in Unitinfos is just not used (or maybe used for the pedia)