[MOD] NEW BALANCE for Warlords (was slower tech + other changes mod)

Good to hear it works. I tried it out, but gotta admit- I like the more cartoony look of the incluided graphics. I used snoopy's terrains for civ iii, but this time I like the ones they did.

Ok, enough chatter. Next post I make will be to upload the next version with those date fixes and other changes.

Don't worry: you'll be able to use the mod MID game without causing any problems to your current v2.2a game.
 
Just d/l it & gonna try it out & leave some feedback later. Desided to give up on my other games & just start a new one on New Balance speed after reading your posts, which is more or less is the same amount of turns as the vanilla Marathon if Im understanding you right. Will also in the future try it out on Epic speed so ppl have some feedback on that as well because alot of ppl seem to like crazy long games that take at the least a week to finish hah like me.
 
There are other balances and tweaks to New Balance as well... it's not jsut the length that gets edited, but how much things cost, how long they take to build, how fast they develop, how long a golden age lasts, how quickly gps are generated, etc... so it may really change the game for you.
 
The changes look good, I like how you increase the options for jungle. If you ask me, it should be so that you can alleviate the negative benefits of jungle the further in the game you come. Short of removing it untill biology, of course.

Now that you're pillaging bits from sevomod, perhaps consider including the tile enhancements? I like how it gives flavour to the game that you can find ressources like cofee and salt. I was merely thinking of more varied bonus tiles for jungles, such as bananas, but other interesting "jungle fare". As you say, jungles are a pain in the arse on any civ, but as this is a game, perhaps some "comfy prices" would be ok?

[edit] I just saw that the Pirate mod has lumbermills on jungle tiles :D That is a good idea, think of it. The jungles of today are endangered because of foresting as well as slash and burn for farmland. Make it possible to build lumbermills or lumbercamps in jungles at an appropriate time. We will keep the jungles as hazardous places of annoyance, but they will yield a bit more production.

I am going to give 2.3 a spin tonight. Can you apply it on top of 2.2 and continue playing, or new game?
 
Yes, you can apply it safely.

Hey I'm not pillaging... I emailed him. And I only wanted the pedia structure he pillaged from others. LOL.

I think there are enough resource and other things right now to the game... While my mod appears to have a lot of changes, only about 4 of them are big changes, the rest are little, minor tweaky things. The core to my mod, as I see it is:

* Longer eras so you can enjoy the time passing.

o slow tech research brutally

+ use the gamespeed xml
+ increase a few key tech costs

o slow tech indirectly

+ cool down the overall economy

# postpone certain advances (villages, for example)
# lower budget gains (banks and markets)
# terrain is harder to work with (jungles)

+ upset the population a bit so they aren't so productive

# greater unhappiness from certain buildings and actions
# greater pollution
# less occurance of resources overall (not enough for everyone)

o Grant player some controls to combat the slowdowns

+ greater civic affects
+ slightly longer golden ages
+ etc


(WOW ARG the formatting on that didn't work out... too bad, I need to go to sleep... hope it makes sense).
 
Dearmad said:
Yes, you can apply it safely.

Hey I'm not pillaging... I emailed him. And I only wanted the pedia structure he pillaged from others. LOL.
Click to expand...

I think there are enough resource and other things right now to the game... While my mod appears to have a lot of changes, only about 4 of them are big changes, the rest are little, minor tweaky things. The core to my mod, as I see it is:

* Longer eras so you can enjoy the time passing.

o slow tech research brutally

+ use the gamespeed xml
+ increase a few key tech costs

o slow tech indirectly

+ cool down the overall economy

# postpone certain advances (villages, for example)
# lower budget gains (banks and markets)
# terrain is harder to work with (jungles)

+ upset the population a bit so they aren't so productive

# greater unhappiness from certain buildings and actions
# greater pollution
# less occurance of resources overall (not enough for everyone)

o Grant player some controls to combat the slowdowns

+ greater civic affects
+ slightly longer golden ages
+ etc
Click to expand...
I think you're doing a very nice job. Im going to try and fit the rebellion AI mod into yours, so that one can experience emerging new civs over the course of the game, and have some rebellions to fight during times of turmoil :)

I think that I liked sevomod because it really did a lot of changes to vanilla Civ4. Perhaps not all of those changes were needed, or even good. But I do miss the planting trees one to purdy up my later game cities.

So, gonna give us lumber mills for jungle? Puh-lease? :D
 
Dearmad said:
Yes, you can apply it safely.

Hey I'm not pillaging... I emailed him. And I only wanted the pedia structure he pillaged from others. LOL.
Click to expand...

Hehe, I was just jesting. If you ask me, all modders should allow anyone to use their work, as long as credit is given and the mod is released for free.

I think there are enough resource and other things right now to the game... While my mod appears to have a lot of changes, only about 4 of them are big changes, the rest are little, minor tweaky things. The core to my mod, as I see it is:

* Longer eras so you can enjoy the time passing.
Click to expand...
Done well.
+ cool down the overall economy
Click to expand...
Yes, the economy is slower, but the war-part of it is faster. Your mod is more ... aggressive I might say. Not a bad thing.

# postpone certain advances (villages, for example)
# lower budget gains (banks and markets)
# terrain is harder to work with (jungles)

# less occurance of resources overall (not enough for everyone)
Click to expand...

Oh, yes, I felt that. Even if the time scale of my game last night was wonky, due to me selecting epic instead of new balance, I felt the "pain" for grabbing ressources. I warred my neighbour in 6100 bc lol! To get some stone for my wonder factories, and some iron. A sweet catch

o Grant player some controls to combat the slowdowns

+ greater civic affects
+ slightly longer golden ages
+ etc
Click to expand...

Slow downs? What slow downs? Didn't you just say you wanted the slowing down to happen? The real slow down IMO is the late game. Of all eras I really don't like the modern era. Boring and always this "curtains down anytime now, can't be bothered" feeling over it.

Anyways I think you're doing a very nice job. Im going to try and fit the rebellion AI mod into yours, so that one can experience emerging new civs over the course of the game, and have some rebellions to fight during times of turmoil :)

I think that I liked sevomod because it really did a lot of changes to vanilla Civ4. Perhaps not all of those changes were needed, or even good. But I do miss the planting trees one to purdy up my later game cities. Its like 180mb, lots of extra civs and too many new traits, UU. But it had those ressources, and I like that, if just for the sake of variety.

So, gonna give us lumber mills for jungle? Puh-lease? :D

EDIT. I just installed 2.3 on top of 2.2a, and to my delight, the year counter changed from 5400bc to 200 AD, reflecting the changes you made to epic game length :)
 
Cool. I didn't expect the date to change. That used to coded into the savegame files, maybe they changed something. Just rmeember, that's one of the few calculated changes I've made to Epic... everything else might flow very differently, especially economically.

Yeah the modern age slows down strangely for me it used to go pretty fast. But in my last game I had a war with Cyrus, then on the turn that ended Rome declared war... so it's been war war war... slow is normal... I plan to play another game here to see how it goes again.

Good luck on the rebellion mod addition. That is the one gameplay mod I am thinking about adding myself, once he gets it under control for Warlords and stable. I hope he doesn't go overboard and make it really complex with all sorts of new game balances that will make adding it in really tough.

I add in the unit stat mod for my own play. I like that mod a lot.
 
There is one significant way the jungle mod has changed my game. I bother with the jungle warfare promos now. I am on a map, shuffle, that is pangea with a huge belt of jungle in the middle. So me and the spanish, malinese and mongol are sort of stuck with each other down south, and the carthaginians, japanese, korean and chinese up north. In between is a belt of pitiful tribal jungle germans and zulus I think. Ah poor bismarck, he has no chance with his wooden poles against my knights and my macemen.

Anyways, the jungles are painful for those stuck in them, and it really makes me want to invest in huge fleets to sail up and punch Hannibal in the nose, he is my worst foe and he is hiding far away >.<
 
Took your advice & started a game on New Balance speed & your right things are much better. Got to around 1000 BC & everything was flowing gr8....then I noticed that there wasnt as many resources as normal & was somewhat struggling, started a new game & again, a noticable amount of resources missing....I generated 2 more random smartmaps & kept getting the same result.

I do agree w/ every change u've made so far but this one. Some of the early, insignificant resources such as wheat, deer, dye etc dont need 2 generate as much as vanilla Civ4 but I rarely saw horses, copper, iron, stone & marble anymore. Also, in my limited experience late in the game, theres already far to little in the oil, uranium etc late game resources.

Will try a new game later maybe part of it was just some bad random maps but so far not realy feelin this change

Great job on clearin up the plane tiles, I was hoping some1 would get around to that, did a test run with worldbuilder & it looks great sooo much easier on the eyes. Also the new units look great, not sure why Firaxis didnt incorporate them in2 the game when the expansion came out.

Will update later.
 
As an opposing voice on the decrease in resources, I'd like to say I'm enjoying the mods approach. In vanilla civ I always found resources not to be strategic at all really - everyone ended up with horses, iron etc. so there was never a real impetus to base my gameplay around them. Likewise, if everyone has a couple of happiness resources in their empire, these resources decrease in value. In my latest game though I actually found myself waging war for the express purpose of another empires silks. Made the whole experience a little richer - there was at least a pretext for war this time!

BTW - Incorporating the Revolutions mod would be pretty uber. All those extra unhappy faces would suddenly have real significance.
 
The resources thing:
There should be nearly enough horse for everyone... but not always. So "no horses" is odd. I've played games where *I* didn't have horses, but so be it... other civs did.

Copper: unchanged.
Stone: unchanged
Marble: unchanged
Iron: clumpier, same #
Uranium: untouched
Oil: Biggest change: There's never enough oil for *all* the starting civs. There's usually enough for 80% of them... Kill them off as oyu go, prepare to negotiate for it, or war for it. Alternately, use Uranium for your warships (drive for fission- this happened to me one game it was very fun). If you have it, prepare for there to be wars due to you having it. Some AI's get very nasty about this...

Luxury resources: I think I cut them by 10-20% so that there's enough for 80% of the civs with each one... means in order to get all of them you will need to be very friendly... or very unfriendly... or just damn lucky.

The revolutions mod needs to mature a bit more. It's an awsome undertaking, but I don't want to end up debugging a rapidly moving target... Will love to use it when it gets there...

Anyway, I'll probably always be at odds to some degree with people over this, but an underlying principle to my mod is: crafting a civ isn't easy. You can't have everything all the time. And the world is (at least a little bit) unfair.

The Aztecs got no horses and no wheel until it was too late.
The Incas got no decent land except a looooong N-S stretch.
The Eskimos got snow.
The Arabs got oil. Lots of it... has it done them good given they lacked a lot of other things? They went through long periods of colonization and hate the wwest now due to a lot of it...
Many Africans got desert or jungle and abundant wildlife which made agriculture difficult and not really needed. Then they got colonized by others who had mastered how to work certain environments. Now they have Oil and Uranium and get victimized due to it.
South Pacific Islanders got lots of islands with dangerous jungles and no way to unify.

As a Civ leader it is your job to think about the situations in which you find yourself, then overcome them, flow with them, kill others before they overtake you with their advantages, or die trying. Reacting rather than taking the initiative will cost you.

Ok, gotta go for now.
 
Hmm I guess I just generated some bad maps then, like i said in my previous post mite be the case, it happens. I agree completely with the luxury resources being cut, was the fish, whale, wheat, pig etc food related ones changed also?

As for killing off Civs, I avoid that at all costs, just my style of play as I play ona 160x100 map. The more the better to me as it makes it more realistic, competitive & in every way more like our world.

As for the changes being historically accurate, I must agree & will keep that in mind & Im sure it will grow on me. After playin Civ for so many years, you just kinda get used to one style but I do welcome nething more realistic. I did however notice some of the civs starting there capitals in areas with no resources at all, not sure if that always happens cus I never have really looked for that or had worldbuilder to closely examine things with but yeah that seems odd. Not sure how or if a capital rival civ city can ever become a top 5 & be competitive with urs if its not by a resource or 2.

Home now & starting a new game shortly & New Balance speed is def. the way to go for now, I must agree 100%.
 
fish: less common (now match other resources, it used to be everywhere)
whale: a *tiny* bit MORE common and more accessible in location
other foodstuffs not changed that I remember

Also, subaru you are using a mapmaker, I think, that I don't use... I d/led it last night and will look into it, but I don't think I've ever used anything but: Continents, Fractal, and Terra to investigate my mod.
 
Hmm good point. I really prefer terra maps but un4tunatly the regular map makers huge isnt nearly enuff for 17 other civs. SmartMaps 160x100 is the perfect size but some of its features leave a lil to be desired.

Yeah I did notice fish were less common by alot, altho crabs & clams seem to be the same. About fish, not exactly sure ur reasoning on this as fish are almost everywhere ( alot more common then any resource by far) there is water & were a mainstay in many early Civs. I agree with somewhat of a change tho as the game placed way 2 many IMO but theres seems to be not enuff now. As for whales, I agree they were way 2 difficult to access in the early game & needed to be increased slightly.

Loading up a new game now.
 
The fish thing, and all resources, to me, represent extraordinary amounts or quality of items. Not the sole occurances of things in the world. This is why sea squares grant food whether fish are in them or not; enough food to grow a city when you have a lighthouse... the resource square means you've got something special beyond what is typically there...
 
Seafood tiles should perhaps not be reduced too much. Historically coastal civs have done marvellously, due to the ease of travel by sea, and the danger and slow speed of travelling by land.

I am now at 1550 AD in my epic length game. I must say I really enjoyed the flow of it so far. I just broke into the rennaissance. I spent a long time in my classical era, broke into medieval around 1040. The medieval era still feels bland and insignifcant. Its just macemen and k-nnnnn-niggets. Do like the slightly more realistic treb.

But I wonder. I can spit out units super fast, making domination victory a real option. For a change. Does the computer benefit from this, too (noble)? Coz I seem to steam roll it. Might be because they are suffering in the jungles, of course.

Anyways, it is now a cutthroat race between me and Hannibal. Ive sent a huge army towards his capital, however I have to fight through his vassal states first >.< . Both of them!

Science is a real problem IMO. Well, it is a challenge get me right. Ive managed to found _ONE_ religion. Luckily I managed to spread confucianism to just about every single city on earth, but man, normally Im not happy if I found less than 3 religions.
 
Sounds like I should say, enjoy the challenge.

Yes the AI benefits too from whatever speed chanegs are in the game. At noble however, I made the AI equal to the player, which is what I though Firaxis had said they were going to do but didn't; it got lots of cheats. Now it doesn't. I don't expect that level to be hugely challening...

Prince is the level I play at. That's where the AI gets a few price cuts the player doesn't. Nothing too whacky though. Then from there up it's like how Firaxis did it.
 
First of all pls exuse my ugly english... The mod is great! And i have some questions and propose to the mod (imho):

1. There will be good idea to improve nuclear weapons explosive power (without mod - nuklears rockets too poor...) Also, for creating nukelear missiles ALL civilizations must have Manhattan Project (not only one) or missiles cost for others civilisations should be more than MP owner - it will be more realistic. Also MP shoult cost more.

2. It will be a good to take some interesting ideas from "revolution mod" and include it in this one.

3. My interesting idea, which I waiting for a long time , but Sid and Firaxis don't think as me :( My idea there will to make "dynamic" climate. If we dont care about forest and jungle climate can changed! And otherwise if we stay some forest in balance the climate stay also constante. The
"balanced climate" idea add more realism in to the game. What do you think about this?
 
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