MOD: Patch Suggestion - C3C version

[Kaboth]

Good job player1 fanatic; its obvious an incredible amount of thought went into this mod and the impacts one change would have on another. Firaxis could learn a lot from this and would do well to implement many of these changes in their own patches.

 

[player1 fanatic]

thanks

 

[Joselia]

What about changing something with the radar towers? I hate these things. Their whole existence is meaningless to me. The AI uses them like crazy and I build one NEVER. I've made a mod where the radar tower takes longer to build (8 turns) and it is soo much better. But maybe an increase in their purpose might also make them better to build since an increase in turns only makes them that more stupid to build. I wouldn't mind getting rid of these meaningless contraptions all together. But what do you think?

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well I think that it has more something to lazines of human player compared to AI one.

25% bonus on attak and defense can be beneficial.
But, human are usually on offense in that era so RT are not priority to them (and they still kill worker).

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by player1 fanatic
Well I think that it has more something to lazines of human player compared to AI one.

25% bonus on attak and defense can be beneficial.
But, human are usually on offense in that era so RT are not priority to them (and they still kill worker).

But at the time when RTs are available, workers should be in surplus.

If placed correctly, a radar tower (in combination with civil defense) makes every city a fortress. Very hard to get through such a line.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Version 2.21 is posted (download from the top of the thread).


New in v2.21:

I allowed Celts to build Medieval Infantry once again. After playing some games with them I realized that in some cases they could really need attacker with offense of 4, even if it means sacrificing ability to build Gallic Swordsmen.

The Oracle wonder gets its price reduced from 300 to 200 shields. With old price it was very suboptimal wonder considering that it's inferior to Hanging Gardens and gets obsolete early.

Shields gained from forced labor are increased from 20 to 30 per population. It needed some boost considering that with old value it was very difficult to rush anything later in game when units and building get more expensive. On the other hand, it's not too drastic increase to unbalance early part of the game.

 

[Kiech]

Not sure if I like everything in this patch...but I may need to test it out

Anyways, a few fixes I have been pondering:

In Fuedalism, workers are free (actually, I think this is what was originally designed...but they couldn't make it work right)

Trade Territory map goes to map making(another think I assume they planned but couldn't make work)

New SMALL wonder for Ironclads:
Master Shipyard - Req a harbor in town it is built. Acts like an Offshore platform (with pollution) & gives that city a free harbor.

Modern paratroopers changed to Special Forces:
12(12).12.1 Amphibious w/paratrooping
Marines may upgrade to SF

Tow moves 2

Privateers should be 3(3).1.x with NO range. I really don't want them bombarding my improvements all of the time.

Facism allows a new upgrade of the privateer to Pirate ship with better stats. Maybe a small wonder that makes suicide bombers w/hidden nationality for facists only.

Airports, jet fighters and bombers moved to Advanced Flight.

I think thats it.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Originally posted by Kiech
In Fuedalism, workers are free (actually, I think this is what was originally designed...but they couldn't make it work right)

Not sure is this possibile.
You could make workers cost no upkeep, but I don't think you can make it government specific.

Originally posted by Kiech
Trade Territory map goes to map making(another think I assume they planned but couldn't make work)

I don't think that separating World Map from Territory Map can be done in editor.

Originally posted by Kiech
New SMALL wonder for Ironclads:
Master Shipyard - Req a harbor in town it is built. Acts like an Offshore platform (with pollution) & gives that city a free harbor.

Modern paratroopers changed to Special Forces:
12(12).12.1 Amphibious w/paratrooping
Marines may upgrade to SF

Tow moves 2

Airports, jet fighters and bombers moved to Advanced Flight.

This all could work it editor.
Although i wouldn't add anythin in my mod, since I use more conservative approach when modding.

Originally posted by Kiech
Privateers should be 3(3).1.x with NO range. I really don't want them bombarding my improvements all of the time.

You would be suprised to know that this is already how they work from C3C (no range bombard).

Originally posted by Kiech
Facism allows a new upgrade of the privateer to Pirate ship with better stats. Maybe a small wonder that makes suicide bombers w/hidden nationality for facists only.

I don't think that government specific unit upgrades are possibile.
On the other hand, the other wonder idea could work.

 

[Kiech]

I pointed out the privateer because you said you wanted to change the range to 1.

The Pirate ship wouldn't require you to be Facisit, but rather be a prereq, sorry for the confusion.

 

[Gogf]

Originally posted by player1 fanatic
I allowed Celts to build Medieval Infantry once again. After playing some games with them I realized that in some cases they could really need attacker with offense of 4, even if it means sacrificing ability to build Gallic Swordsmen.[/SIZE]

How about just make Gallics upgrade to guerillas?

 

[player1 fanatic]

In order to do that, ties to normal upgrades need to be sewered.

And that means that warriors won't be able to upgrade to Gallics, if this was done.

 

[Balam]

Hmm...is it possible to create a new unit, entitled something like 'serf', that acts like a worker but is gov. specific? This way you could make them dirt cheap under Feudalism. Alternatively, you could have a wonder specific to the Feudal advance that churned out serfs. Ah, the possibilities

 

[Kiech]

We need someone to program the game for that, I would think...plus Sids permission. Too bad.

 

[MachDelta]

Wow, this is a great mod! I was thinking about making a tweaked version of C3C for myself, but I won't have to (much ) with this! Thanks!


Speaking of which, here are some notes from my own 'tweaksearch':

-Lower spy costs for almost all actions. Spying is just WAY too expensive to make it of any real value.

-Policeman job reduces corruption by 2 (up from 1). Just to make them a little more useful (I even considered 3, but that might be too much).

-Increase dyes bonus commerce to 2 (up from 1). Its the only luxury with a bonus of 1, all others are 2-4.

-Increase tobacco bonus commerce to 2 (up from 1). Same reason as dyes.

-Give Cruise missiles "Tactical Missile" option to load them onto nuclear subs. (Oh how I wish there were seperate "Tactical Missile" and "Tactical Nuke" flags...)

-Manufacturing plant pollution reduced to 1 (down from 2). Modern mfg. plants are much more environment friendly (and regulated) than the beasts of the industrial revolution.

-Submarine upgrades to Nuclear sub. Such an obvious change IMO

-Move Build barricade action to Metallurgy. I think barricades and costal fortresses are a better match. Plus it puts a nice technological gap between fortresses and barricades to give fortresses a period of supremacy.

-Barracks require Warrior Code. Gives militaristic civs an early (if short lived) bonus where they have none.

-Give towns a defence value (15 or so?). Even the smallest town is a tactically superior position than a grassy field.

-Lower citizen and building defence values (something like 0/5, 5/10, 5/15, 10/15, etc). I don't quite understand how having more people and landmarks in a city magically give its defenders a boost, but whatever.

-Slightly increased OCN for all map sizes. Corruption is perhaps the most poorly implemented Civ3 feature after pollution. I'd like to deal with it as little as possible

-Fixed civ colors (like in BBW, etc).


And thats it so far. I also had another crazy idea, and that was to give 1 tech in each age the "first to gets free tech bonus" like Philosophy has, but i'm it might prove to be too powerful. For the record though, the 4 techs were Philosohpy, Education, Atomic Theory, and Computers.
Anyways, take my suggestions for what they're worth (eg: not much ), and keep up the great work!


Now i'm off to do a little modding of my own - thanks for the inspiration BTW!

 

[player1 fanatic]

Speaking of which, here are some notes from my own 'tweaksearch':

Lets see...

-Lower spy costs for almost all actions. Spying is just WAY too expensive to make it of any real value.

Trust me, spy costs are not too expensive. While tech steal is expensive in ancient era in industrial and moern era

(and sometime medieval) it's very cheap compared to buying (even when using safely option).

Personally, I think that cost for most options prices are OK, but maybe few of them could use some discount (steal

plans or propagana for example).

-Policeman job reduces corruption by 2 (up from 1). Just to make them a little more useful (I even considered

3, but that might be too much).

I think they are not bad normally. I could sometimes get one extra shield (in some cases very useful) and some extra

bonus to both science and gold. The trick is to use them when you really need an extra sheild or if city is maxed out

so and can give more worth when taxmen or scientist.

-Give Cruise missiles "Tactical Missile" option to load them onto nuclear subs. (Oh how I wish there were

seperate "Tactical Missile" and "Tactical Nuke" flags...)

The only problem I have with this is that AI won't be using this option. And I try not to weaken AI with my changes.

-Submarine upgrades to Nuclear sub. Such an obvious change IMO

I had this change in PtW version of MOD.
The only reason I didn't include it is that I reasoned that 100 shields submarine could sometimes be more useful then

more expensve Nuc. Submarine. If you want to implemenmt this in your mod I suggest lowering price of NSubs to 120.

-Barracks require Warrior Code. Gives militaristic civs an early (if short lived) bonus where they have none.

Ability to produce 20 shields Barracks by itslef is a great bonus when playing militarist.
Also since most non-Mil players won't realy build Barracks until when get ready for Archers this won't change much.

-Give towns a defence value (15 or so?). Even the smallest town is a tactically superior position than a grassy field.

Could inbalance early game conquest. Even with normal rules spearmean in town has defense of 2.7 Andything extra would make Archers and Horsemen much weaker.
Myabe if you remove minimal terrain bonus (from 10% to 0) and then add 10% bonus to towns?

-Lower citizen and building defence values (something like 0/5, 5/10, 5/15, 10/15, etc). I don't quite understand how

having more people and landmarks in a city magically give its defenders a boost, but whatever.

I think these are used when bomber are bombarding the city to see will they destroy/kill building/population.

-Increase dyes bonus commerce to 2 (up from 1). Its the only luxury with a bonus of 1, all others are 2-4.

-Increase tobacco bonus commerce to 2 (up from 1). Same reason as dyes.

-Manufacturing plant pollution reduced to 1 (down from 2). Modern mfg. plants are much more environment friendly (and

regulated) than the beasts of the industrial revolution.

-Move Build barricade action to Metallurgy. I think barricades and costal fortresses are a better match. Plus it puts

a nice technological gap between fortresses and barricades to give fortresses a period of supremacy.

-Slightly increased OCN for all map sizes. Corruption is perhaps the most poorly implemented Civ3 feature after

pollution. I'd like to deal with it as little as possible

-Fixed civ colors (like in BBW, etc).

These are mosly flavour issuses. And I tried to limit my mod more on game balance then flavor (since it's a subjective thing, someone likes it someone don't).

Now i'm off to do a little modding of my own - thanks for the inspiration BTW!

No problem.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Patch Suggestion lite has been released!

 

[dsr]

Just getting back into civ after being gone for a while, and I'm trying to catch up with your mods, which I always liked in the past.

But, now there's three versions, and though we have normal, lite, and ultra lite, lite has stuff in it that is not in the normal version.

So, my question for you is which is the definitive player1_fanatic patch suggestion mod?

I am trusting your judgement here, as I tried to unravel you a long time ago but was severly schooled.

Thanks!
dsr

 

[player1 fanatic]

Lite version is what you should look for.

It's newer and more often updated.
Still, since some things are changed in different light (less changes overall, but since it's newer has some changes that normal doesn't have), I deciced to keep old patch suggestion for download. I haven't planned to update normal mod in anytime soon.


And ultra-lite is a "joke-mod".

 

[aldaek]

Lite version is what you should look for.

It's newer and more often updated.
Still, since some things are changed in different light (less changes overall, but since it's newer has some changes that normal doesn't have), I deciced to keep old patch suggestion for download. I haven't planned to update normal mod in anytime soon.


And ultra-lite is a "joke-mod".

I would like the full C3C version, but it says that it is not found. Do you not support the full version anymore? If so, I will have to find another mod similiar to this.

 

[player1 fanatic]

It's strange.
It should've been up.

In the meantime try browsing Apolyton.net forums (Civ3-File Forum), where you could find a download.


P.S.
Yes I'm pretty much now supporting PS-Lite only, but this version should have been donloadable.