[MOD] Realism:The Third Resurrection

[ToV]

Mmh, I wouldn't do that to be honest.
The cottages, as I see it, are small villages on the outskirts of the cities. These small villages, besides they small market they also are (i.e. the gold), also grow food (i.e. no reduction in food on the tile).

Cottages, Villages, towns, ext. all have DIFFERENT entries, last tims I checked. So you can have -1 food for towns, without having -1 food for towns and NOT have it for cottages.

 

[Houman]

@TOV

Thank you. Could you tell me which file you were looking into, that would speed it up a bit. I come back with suggestions...

 

[Nightravn]

Houman I will handle the Map, i will try to make it realistic but also try to keep the balance in there too. If anyone playing the different Civ's sees things out of whack or anyone who knows about certain resources in any particular region please post here so I can make the updates. I can also try and do some the XML modding and will look into incorporating some the Ultimate Strategy Mod aspects into this one.

You don't have to do this alone and if you can point me in the right direction I can help. Like with the issue of AI Civ's building the Native Archer this is an issue that needs to be addressed and I guess it is in the unit info file so will look at it. Any ideas on whats causing the Barbarian Issue?

 

[Houman]

@Nightravn,

The Aztecs and Incas are supposed to build the Native Scouts, Native Warriors, Native Archers and Native Longbowmen instead of Scouts, Warriors, Archers and Longbowmen. These are their special Unique Unit + the Unique Units they already have.

So this is normal that native civs are building native units. You don't need to make any changes in the Unitinfo.xml file.

The only problem we have here is the map it self. The editor you are using is not cabable of using the external stuff in our mod, like new units, new resources etc. Thats why you have to use the built-in Worldbuilder, start as Egyptions, Press CTR+W and edit it and save it back.

The Immortal Unit issue might be in the \XML\Civilizations\CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml file.

Wait for the Map editing, I will have a look myself, if the resources are still there and will let you know, if you have to take the Beta Map or the newest Map in order to make this changes...

Regards
Houman

 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

@Ivan

Regarding the Happy New year, yup mate! the Western and Chinese is over!
It is the Iranian and former Iranian countries that still celebrate this event since 7000 years back since Mithraism. This event is not being celebrated by the Arabs and the Turks. The countries that still celebrate Nowruz are the Kurdish people from Turkey and from Irak, whole Iran, whole Azerbaijan, whole Tajikestan, whole Kyrgyzstan and Persian speaking parts of Uzbikistan and Afghanistan, parts of Georgia and parts of India.

Happy Nowruz!

Ah, I should have guessed that it was Iranian in origin. Happy Nowruz in that case.


regarding the cottages/suburbs thing then. It's handy that the entries are seperate, it should make the editing easier (more targeted intervention).
However, I do forsee problems with such a change though. In the late-game a -1 food would make sense from a realism viewpoint.
But there are two (at the moment ) gripes I have with that:

1. cottages can reach maximum level long before the modern era (when the change makes most sense), before which food production in non-urban (cities) centres remained important.

2. It could potentially cause late-game starvation due to food shortages. Something that isn't present in our world: suburbs, though they don't produce food don't cause the city they belong with to have less food available, it just gets imported from further away (something that cannot be simulated properly without a major overhaul of the mod*). So while a food-penalty for suburbs during the late game is technically correct, it doesn't make sense gamewise as overall food-availability in modern well-run cities/countries doesn't decline (on the contrary).

*you could code (possibly) that traded (internally or internationally) food-resources give an additional food-bonus (not on the tile in other words, closer to what Mylon did I guess) starting from the industrial age onwards since that was when it became technically possible to transport immense quantities of food quickly over increasinly large distances. (disregarding pre-industrial examples like the grain-transports to Rome which were very much the exception rather than the rule)

 

[Nightravn]

Houman- no need for you to look as the lastest Map is the one I am playing and it has all the new resources. I made additional modifications to it in the world builder playing the eygptians, as I know this is how to mod a world builder save. My mistake was to then run it through YAME, I did so because I like the way it cleans up some map issues but failed to realize it would not be useable due to it being for this MOD. If still have the File before it was YAMEd so I will post that one for you to look at after I get home tonight (5pm CST/4 hrs from now.)

Thanks for clearing up the Native Archer info. I did not realize those were new units for those Civs.

 

[Oettinger77]

ahh good to know that you're speaking german houman - makes some things much easier


Regards

 

[Lachlan]

What did happen for standard world map ?

Why not a fictive standard map ? With fictive Civs ?

==> Empire of the East, Kingdom of Lomar, City-State of Jalapurnam, Repeblic of Rauru, Keshian Horde, Shogunate of Miyapo, etc ...

What do you think ? ...

The map should be varied and fun ...

----------------------------------------

Can you consider my ideas for the air units attack (but not take cities) like ground units ?

 

[israfil]

@Israfil
We really need to set a team on this project. I would appreciate if you could join me in this holy task. We need XML freaks like myself buy especcially Python nerds, a bit of simple skinning abilities-junkies and if available 3dStudio gods.

Who can contribute to the team?
Thanks
Houman

I agree, and Happy NawRuz. I'm actually heading to a party as I write this (well, I'm about to).

As to contributions - I'm no graphics guy. I am a pretty hard-core programmer by background, though I'm also more involve with software development process these days. Given my schedule, I could commit no more than a few hours per week, but I suspect I can help.

As I said before, I think that putting some good concurrent development tools on this would be good, so to that end I've setup a sourceforge project called civ4mods. This way we can put our files into subversion, and we can release without fear of space constraints. At this point, it's ready to go - we just need to determine a repostitory structure and start checking things in.

Anyway, the net effect is that I'm happy to help, happy to help deal with release management and that sort of stuff, happy to code python, hack xml, whatever. Just don't expect pretty graphics.

Israfil.

 

[israfil]

For those who are not software developers, subversion is a repository for code, resources, whatever. It allows you to make changes to files and "check them in". Thereafter any "checked in" state of the file is accessible through history. It is very much like CVS. It is a great tool for many people working on the same code. Multiple developers can work on the same stuff and synchronize their changes. If Houman checks in some changes, I can get a difference report that shows me what he changed.

As a side effect, it also means that people who are adventurous can "update" their local copy directly from the repository, if they're willing to deal with the bugs. They can do this even between releases. But we also get a fair bit of control over clean builds and releases. Active developers can check in code, but anyone can get a copy of the workspace to play with, find bugs, make suggestions, etc.

Israfil.

 

[Houman]

@Israfil, thats great. A repository sound very good to me. I use CVS at work but I don;t know all the commands yet. It is pretty straight forward though. I am glad you and Nightravn are in the team. Nightravn is taking care of the Map, when he is finished I will take care of the Barbarian AI on the map.

I am very glad you can program in XML and Python.
We have right now two problems, I can't solve.
Why are the wonder-videos not playing anymore? It doesn't make sense, I even have removed the modified CvEventManager.py from the Python folder, so that the Game has to read the original one in the Game folder. Still nothing...

The other one is related to the Cold Fusion Plant, which seems to disable all the Nuclear Plants.

#GreenMod: remove nuclear plant after fusion plant was built
		if iBuildingType == iFusionplant:
			pCity.setHasRealBuilding(20, False)

This is bad, because you need at least 1 Nuclear Plant left in order to build the Nuclear Silos and ICBMs. I tried to solve the problem in making a second type of ICBM that can be built with a Plutonium Silo, which again will be provided for free in every city, if the player has build the Wonder Cold Fusion PLant.

But it gets confused. The PLutonium ICBM get over everything and it says if you build a COld Fusion Plant you would get a Manhatten Building n every city rather than the Plutonium Silo. I can'y solve it through XML.
It might be that we have to remove the Cold Fusion Plant OR the best way would be if the Cold Fusion would rather disable the meltdown effect rather than removing the buildings. That would be excellent (line in CIV II)

If anyone else has an idea for solving these two problems, please step forward.

I have solved the Immortal issue (No longer for everyone and doesn;t require any Iron or Copper)

I have made the correct txt_pointers for the Inquisitor units to the Pedia and strategy guide.

Regards
Houman

 

[Houman]

Hey it is like university times when you are chewing on one problem for hours; in a desprate attempt you post the problem in Internet and 5 minutes later you solve it by yourself....

OK the videos are fixed. What should we do about the cold fusion plant wonder and ICBM problems?

HOuman

 

[Perfect_Blue]

Ok, I know I've posted on this before, in a manner, but it actually seems to have gotten worse...if thats possible, maybe just my imagination. Of course I only mention this because it hurts my game, and when its me...well, its important .

Anyway, the Aggressive trait; now not only are my Mongol horsemen deprived of this bonus, but so are my archers? Am I only teaching my footsoldiers to be aggressive? Now, I understand hesitancy to give this trait broader reach over say, air force or naval units, too much power, I get that. But my deadly Mongol horde doesn't care about infantry! Arrows and Horses, that's my game. Now both my cavalry and my archery units are deprived of the basic aggressive bonus...

Houman, HELP!!

 

[Nightravn]

here is the Modified Map.... tell what ya think

 

[israfil]

Hey it is like university times when you are chewing on one problem for hours; in a desprate attempt you post the problem in Internet and 5 minutes later you solve it by yourself....

OK the videos are fixed. What should we do about the cold fusion plant wonder and ICBM problems?

HOuman

This might be solving it sideways, but (I haven't gotten deep enough into Civ IV mod details to know whether this is feasible) couldn't you make the ICBMs dependent on nuclear plant OR cold fusion plant? Or could the cold fusion plant simply deactivate the bonuses of the nuclear plant? Let's find the cheapest, easiest solution in the short run, and as we get better at Civ IV hacking, we can go for a better, more elegant solution.

Israfil.

 

[israfil]

@Israfil, thats great. A repository sound very good to me. I use CVS at work but I don;t know all the commands yet. It is pretty straight forward though. I am glad you and Nightravn are in the team. Nightravn is taking care of the Map, when he is finished I will take care of the Barbarian AI on the map. ... Houman

I'm going to take the .72 version, and put it in subversion, then layer the .7201 patch on top of it. I'll post information on how to get anonymous subversion access to this forum, plus web-svn repository browsing. I encourage you (Houman) to get sourceforge accounts and I'll hook you up. As to who has commit rights to the repository, I'll leave it to you, since this is largely your baby. As people submit patches and suggestions, they can be given direct access to the repostory, but in the short term, it should be a small number of committers, to keep things simple while we learn. Anyone who doesn't have write access to the repository can still send diffs (deference files) as patches, which can be checked and commited.

I'll also put up a short summary of subversion and how to use it.

regards,
Israfil

 

[Paulk]

This is a Clarification/statement about the natural resources of Western Canada. Western Canada contains vast amounts of natural gas, oil, and tar sands. I'm not quite sure about the exact statistics but the Athabasca tar sands in northern Alberta contain one of the largest oil deposits outside of the Middle East. I think that this would count as at least one oil resource for Western Canada, specifically Alberta. Or you could possibly move the oil resource in Western United States further north.

Sincerely,
Paulk

P.S. People who live in Alberta received a $400 resource check from the government for the massive profits we received from government regulated oil industry.

 

[Houman]

@Blue

I forgot to tell you. I analyzed this problem and you are right. It doesn't make sense that Mongols get Aggressive Bonus on infantry.

The problem lies in Aggressive Bonus itself, if I change it to Cavalry, the Greeks Phalanx get nerfed. We need a new trait -> Horde.

The Arabs traits are not correct either. Spiritual, Philosophical? I don't agree.
The historical truth is different and that can be found even in the authentically Hadiths that are holy to the Muslims. After Mohammed’s peaceful preaching in Mecca, that took 13 years, he almost had 100 followers together. In that time the Quareish tribe that was in charge of the polytheistic temple called Ka'ba (that is now regarded as Abraham’s house, which is historically also not true). The Quareish tribe made a lot of money, since the Arabs from all over the country came to pay tribute to the Gods within the Ka'ba. They saw their income in danger and rejected Mohammed’s Monotheism. Mohammed was warned that he might get killed and fled to Medina.

The Medinese who were the biggest tribe after Quareish and like any other tribe jealous of their power and money, saw after a while a political reason for themselves to join the Moslem movement. As soon as Mohammed had his first small army of followers he started to invade the Caravans of Quareish tribe. Money and Women were distributed as loot. The looting of Caravans became even allowed in the holy book as some people had protested against it first. After then more and more peaceful Sures have been replaced by more aggressive ones how to fight and behave against the “heretics”.

The movement continued invading the Caravans of Quareish tribe and became richer and more popular. It was not only a spiritual way to convert to Islam but also good for the pocket. That how the numbers grew so fast and finally he could beat the Quareish tribe and take Mecca. After the dead of Prophet Mohammed, his politics were confirmed by the follower Abu Bakr, but since all Arabian was already united under Muslim rule and there was nothing more to conquer; the expansionist politics had to cross the Arabian borders for the first time in their history. That’s how the Muslims invaded East Rome (Byzantium) and Iran (Sassanidian Dynasty).

According to these historical facts, I wouldn't give them the trait Spiritual & Philosophical, which matches more the Tibetans, who were ready to give up their country for the sake of peace.

I would give them the new aggressive bonus to the Cavalry (I call it Horde) + Expansionist + Spiritual to the Arabs. Hopefully it is allowed to give a nation more than two traits.

Regards
Houman

 

[israfil]

The Arabs traits are not correct either. Spiritual, Philosophical? I don't agree.

Snip...

According to these historical facts, I wouldn't give them the trait Spiritual & Philosophical, which matches more the Tibetans, who were ready to give up their country for the sake of peace.

I would give them the new aggressive bonus to the Cavalry (I call it Horde) + Expansionist + Spiritual to the Arabs. Hopefully it is allowed to give a nation more than two traits.

@Houman: Don't forget that it isn't the Arab civ that's listed as phi/spi, it's Saladin (Salah'ud-Deen) the arab leader. Having said that, I think I might agree that Saladin would be better expansionist/spiritual wtih a horde bonus on cavalry. However, Ali might be a reasonable alternate leader who was philosophical and spiritual. He tended to give up power in the earliest days of Islam when Abu-Bakr and Umar and Uthman were busy proposing each other as Khalif (successor). He (Ali) quieted his supporters (Shiat-al Ali,or Shi'ah) for the sake of unity, according to some tellings, until eventually he was declared Khalif by the communty elders after the above three died. (Of course then he was assassinated, so it all went crazy between the Shi'ahs and Sunnis). Maybe make Ali Phi/Spi. He certainly wrote tons of philosophical speaches/treatises. Or maybe a Sufi saint could be used.

The point you raise implicitly is important, though. The game makes historical judgements on specific leaders, so it's importnat to think it through. But we can also add more leaders to the tribe to choose from, so we have more choices. For example, For germany you could have ludwig, bismarck, and frederick, and maybe one of the Goth kings. They might all have different attributes, while Germany would retain it's unique units for any of them.

Anyway, you can add multiple traits. I "cheated" in an early game and added all traits to a leader and went nuts for kicks, to play with how bonuses work.

Israfil.

 

[israfil]

Hi Houman, Immortal is showing up in non-persian civs.

Israfil.