[MOD] Realism:The Third Resurrection

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Roads aren't very realistic in this game. One major thing annoying me in most versions of civ is the 1/2 movement speed on enemy roads. This to me doesn't make sense. In Roman times roads were used for merchants and the millitary. When Rome started to fall one of the reasons was the barbarian hordes that easily found the Roman cities because of the roads. I don't see why you can't use enemy roads like any other roads. Also it seems likes roads can be built way to quickly. Maybe make it 3 turns instead of 2. Every time I play this mod it seems like the Mongols, Russains, Americans, Incans, Aztecs are doing the best and hold the top positions. Could you make it possible to have more Barbarians slowing down these civilizations. It doesn't seem like the vikings are properly represented either. It gives Catherine an easy time expanding.
And that one galley circles around europe pillaging fishing boats in the mediterrain and all the way to the english canal. This would really help out the strugguling civs of england, romen, and greek. One final thing, The English, Romans and Greeks never seem to improve their resources aroud their cities and they almost always semm to get eleminated early or be near last for most of the game. Could you either make them more agressive (if possible) or give them something so they can actually expand somewhere. I.E. make it so all civilizations that start with fishing also start with sailing. (might make it unbalanced or maybe even more balanced than before)

So the five main points of this thread are:
1. All roads should give you the movement bonus regardless of whos territory it is in.
2. Roads should take 3 turns to build instead of 2. Especially with the time it takes to actually finish a single game of this mod.
3. Remove that galley from Europe's coast.
4. More barbarians against Mongols, Russians, Americans, Incans and Aztecs.
5. Help out the weak civilizations of English, Roman and Greek. Maybe give them sailing?

Paulk
 
Paul,

Thank you for your comments. I will check and fix them. Giving the weaker civs sailing straight away might become unbalancing. What if we give them even more good resources around their capital?

Regarding the Barbarians, are you playing the 0.72.08 Map? All American nations (US, Aztecs and Incas) are surrounded by Barbs. The Vikings shoudl be stronger though, you are right in this case. Russian and Mongols should get some more too I suppose. ;)

Letting you using enemies road as full is unfair. That would make rushes very easy. In real, the armies even when using a road had to move carefully and be prepared for ambush.

The nasty Barbarian Galley shall be removed though. NightRaven please take care of the Galley, if there is none, then get rid of the Barbarian Harbors in their cities that face the european waters. I can give you a list of those cities.

We still have to discuss giving the weaker Civs more resources or just the sailing?

Thanks
Houman
 
Houman said:
@zhardan
According to your ? I suppose are having the Spanish version.
It might be that the Spanish version (translation for that part) is brocken. Could you try to play the Game in English and test it again? There will be some cleaning up with the Python code in the next version. Many Mods get updated and re-implemented to make sure everything is alright. wow almost all th etraces of my foerunners are vanishing. :( But it is important, since if the day of the new Patch come, we have to redo everything again anyway. In short, in next version, your problem might get solved. ;)

I have redownload the 0.7208 mod, i have deleted old Realism folder before to install it and mod is correct running :D

thanks!
 
zhardan said:
I have redownload the 0.7208 mod, i have deleted old Realism folder before to install it and mod is correct running :D

thanks!

haha. :D What does it say in the Readme file? (Yes guys read it)

Delete the old folder every time a major release is out there. ;) Unless it is a patch.

I am glad it works.

Have a great time,
Houman
 
I will take care of the Barbarian Galley and have already done a couple tweaks.

One suggestion for balancing some of the weaker CIV is to have ALL CIV's start with the Fishing, Hunting, and Farming Techs. It is hard to fathom that any CIV would begin to develop with out these basics. What we do then is classify the CIV's and give them one extra tech depending on their Traits ie Spiritual Civ's start with Mysticism, Industrious Civ's start with Mining, Philosophical Civ's start with the Wheel, etc. Now this will be a little time line unbalancing so we would probably have to adjust the time to research techs a little.

This will also give the worker something to do at the beginning no matter what CIV it is. Having a worker sitting around is just a waste in my eyes. Or I could go through the map and make sure that Each CIV as resources that the worker can improve depending on their traits but that would be rather annoying and not necessarily realistic.
 
Houman said:
Do you think you could take care of this Python programming?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=164903

@Houman.

I can give it the ol' college try. The only problem is that this week is a killer, so I doubt I can even start until around late next week. So if someone beats me to the punch, go for it. However, if no one commits to the task earlier, I'll try it out. My python's rusty. :)

Israfil.
 
I think caravels need to be pushed back. In the games I've been playing people have been circumnavigating the globe as early as 500 BC. In real life caravels started to be used in the 15th century and you can get these ships well before then. I think caravels need to be moved back to optics and privateers to gundpowder. This might not be perfect but I think it woukd create a much more realistic timeline. And Caravel were for exploration not for military or setteling, yet they can transport settelers and soliders. It should be changed back to explorers, missionaries, and great people.

Paulk
 
I agree with Paulk.... and here is the Tweaked World Map. The changes I made are.....

Removed Viking and added Oslo and Helsinki.
Moved France over one tile to east to allow for city to the west.
Moved English settler up and west one to allow for better border expansion between them and France. Also moved a few resources to allow for better placement on secondary cities.
Moved Gold in Spain south eastern area to north eastern hill out of Madrid's fat cross to entice settlement near it. Note I am not sure If I did this earlier or if the original is this way but Spanish settler is in middle where Madrid should be. I left it this way either way.
Moved a few Barbarian Cities and AI settlers so they were not one tile away from coast.
Add a few fish resources through out map and gave Greece pearls.

Removed HARBOR from Carthage.

As for the whole Mongolian can see India thing... I don't know how to fix that. I have looked in the Map XML and can't find anything that would cause it. I do know that it is caused from when you first start a map and change the starting locations by not being the first CIV on the list but I have no clue how to remedy it. I did do away with the contact between CIVs and that didn't effect it so I don't know.

edit- I just figured it out and will post a fix asap

re-edit... ok here it is..... with revealed tiles fixed as well as contact with other CIV's at start. Also got that road Paulk

BTW there was some miscellaneous this code in the map XML "ScriptData=(dp1" most of it was followed by this......

"S'CulturalDecay'
p2
S'(DP\Ni\Ni\NS.'
P
s.


which I believe has to do with some of the CIV's starting of to close to each other which I remedied. Though that first part "ScriptData=(DP" didn't always have the rest following. Anyways I removed it all of it and the Map seems to be fine but still have a copy with that stuff still in if it is needed.

One other thing..... I added the game option Aggressive AI so hopefully the AI wont be such push overs.


Tell what ya think..... :goodjob:

P.S. just starting playing a round and the Barb Galley is still there. So will look into it more but it is probably in the MOD part where ever the Tech level is determined for them. I guess because they have longbowmen in some cities they have access to the sailing Tech. I will modify that and post my findings.

ok finally got rid of galley... there was a galley over in Asia so I nix'd it and after playing a few turns saw that the American CIV is no more message so I tuned down the Barb's just a tad in America.
 
Nightravn said:
I agree with Paulk.... and here is the Tweaked World Map. The changes I made are.....

So since the map seems to be a seperate resource that, while related, is not a dependency for the mod itself, I suggest we release the map seperately. It's sort of effectively so since Nightravn posts it here, but I mean on sourceforge.net as well.

Israfil.
 
The new map looks good. I especially like the new placements of the european nations. Madrid is in an incredible spot now. Good Job.
O yea and there is a square with a road on it. Its to the west of the mongols in the desert.
 
Greetings all,

So for those of you who want to try the mod in an unstable state, between releases, anonymous (read-only) access to the repository is available to anyone. The repository uses subversion (http://subversion.tigris.org/). For geeks out there, eclipse has a Team client for subversion. The update site is available at http://subclipse.tigris.org/update/

There's a great explorer integrated client called TortoiseSVN which lets you use windows explorer to manipulate SVN workspaces and repositories. It's available at http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/

When you attempt to connect, you need to use the repository address of http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/civ4mods/trunk/civ4.mod.realism for the whole project or http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/civ4mods/trunk/civ4.mod.realism/src/mod/Realism for the actual mod contents. If you want to work directly from the repository (not recommended except for testing) you would check out .../Realism right into your mod folder, removing any previous copy of the mod. You can make changes, but you won't be able to check them back in.

For the most part, unless you are a developer/geek in your daily life, this all may be a bit intimidating, but it's there for those who are interested. Just remember, you can always blow away the mod in your folder and re-install it from a downloaded release.

regards,
Israfil.
 
Paulk said:
The new map looks good. I especially like the new placements of the european nations. Madrid is in an incredible spot now. Good Job.
O yea and there is a square with a road on it. Its to the west of the mongols in the desert.


Will look into the road thing.

fixed this... look up a couple posts to get the new MAP.
 
Whats up with Monotheism? It doesn't do anything. Does it? It seems wierd that you can get theology without monotheism. Is this intentional? I've seen the AI get this tech but what is it for?!?!?

!!!!!
 
Paulk said:
Whats up with Monotheism? It doesn't do anything. Does it? It seems wierd that you can get theology without monotheism. Is this intentional? I've seen the AI get this tech but what is it for?!?!?

!!!!!

It should be removed if its not good for anything, however you could attach a religious spread effect to it.. or something like that.
 
@NightRavn,

You did an excellent job! Bravo! You really should join officially the team. Ask Israfil for details and register as developer into Source Forge.

Israfil is right; we should also provide the Map separately. However I suggest we should publish the map once as a separate file under Source Forge and once with the whole Mod.

The reason behind that is that the Generator for Custom games is kind of...broken. The results are not good and we have no man power at this time to tweak it. The additional 6 resources on the Realism Map are distributed in a way to make trades between Civilizations more necessary. In other words our Mod relies on this time a lot on the Realism World Map in order to work the way it was meant to be. :D

That’s why it is important that you join the Source forge and upload your file once in the Mod repository and once as a separate file.

There are two more things:
When you publish a map, add an incremental number to the end. So in this case xxx0.72.08.01. In this case we don't mix it up, which version is old and which is new.
But do not change the 0.72.08. It could be that we add new resources in the future and this nr should show which map is compatible with which mod.

The other thing is, after you save a map, for some odd reasons the ModPath=Mods/Realism disappears from the Map file.

So in Windows please open the file with a proper XML editor like notepad++ (http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net) and change the
ModPath=
to
ModPath=Mods/Realism
before you publish it into Source forge.

Very good job!! Bravo! :thumbsup:
Houman
 
@Paul
@Avian,

There is a reason behind the Monotheism;

Please read this post from Abbamouse the author of Realism Religion Mod:

------------------
I'm thinking about changing the techs that grant certain religions. Here is how the history breaks down:

Hinduism: Elements as early as 2000 BCE, writing in 800 BCE. A number of sites give a figure of 1500 BCE for a complex faith containing many of the elements of modern Hinduism.

Buddhism: 500 BCE or so -- founded by Buddha, who had been educated in Hindu thought (so of course Buddhism was a response to Hinduism, and thereofre was informed by it)

Judaism: As with Hinduism, there is huge disagreement over the age of Judaism. For example, there is no archaeological evidence of Kings Solomon and David or any of their predecessors. If there was an Egyptian captivity, it seems most likely to have been around 1200 BCE, give or take a century. We have clear archaeological evidence of Israelites somewhere around 900 BCE. So a range of 1500 BCE to 900 BCE for Judaism seems to be pretty reasonable. There was probably some cultural influence from Zoroastrianism on Judaism's development during the Babylonian captivity, but most scholars seem skeptical of claims that Jewish theology was greatly altered by Zoroastrianism.

Zoroastrianism: While elements of this faith seem to be quite old -- linguistic eveidence suggests perhaps as early as 1500 BCE -- the "traditional" dates given for Zoroaster's/Zarathushtra's life would have him teaching around 600 BCE (a date considered improbably recent by most historians). Somewhere betwen 1500 BCE and 1200 BCE would be a reasonable origin date for this faith.

Taoism: Elements of it date from around 400 BCE, although some works like the Tao Te Ching may have been written as recently as 200 BCE. It was certainly a organized movement by 100 BCE, however. So a date of 400BCE - 200 BCE seems reasonable.

Christianity: The Gospels seem to have been written down sometime around 70 CE, although we might have trouble recognizing their authors as Christian today. Still, a time-frame of 30 CE - 70 CE seems pretty reasonable. Christianity was obviously an offshoot of Judaism when it was founded.

Islam: From about 610 CE to 632 CE, Islam was explicated by Mohammed. There is plenty of historical evidence to support these dates. Islam drew from both Jewish and Christian traditions, recognizing both as "people of the book."

Implications:
1. The order in which religions appear should be something like:

Oldest:
Hinduism (1500 BCE, give or take 300 years)
Judaism (1500 BCE - 900 BCE)
Zoroastrianism (1500 BCE - 1200 BCE)

Old:
Buddhism (around 500 BCE)
Taoism (400 BCE - 200 BCE)

New:
Christianity (pre-100 CE)
Islam (600s CE)

2. A faith which was clearly informed by another prior to its establishment as a distinct religion should require the prior religion (or rather, its associated tech) as a prerequisite. So:

Hinduism = no prereqs
Judaism = no prereqs
Zoroastrianism = no prereqs
Buddhism = Hinduism prereq
Taoism = no prereqs
Christianity = Judaism prereq
Islam = Judaism and Christianity prereqs

So combining these two, the tech tree's religion elements should look something like this:

Hinduism ---------------> Buddhism
--Judaism ------------------------->Christianity----------------->Islam
----Zoroastrianism
-----------------------------Taoism

Specific suggestions:
* Hinduism stays where it is, but Polytheism's cost is lowered to 80 instead of 100 so it might actually be the first religion founded in more games.
* Swap Monotheism and Meditation on the tech tree, which allows players to research Monotheism at the beginning.
* Since Priesthood now has Monotheism as a prereq, have Judaism founded by first to discover Priesthood.
* Allow Meditation to be researched if the civ already knows Monotheism -- and have the first to discover Meditation found Zoroastrianism.
* First to discover Literature founds Buddhism
* Theology now requires Priesthood rather than Monotheism

---------------------------------------

As you can see, there were some deep thoughts about the religious system we are using. This is not carved into the stone and we might want to improve it. Taoism will be completely changed. Minor updates to Zoroastrism and Hinduism will follow.

Maybe now you understand why it is not easy just to add a religion. ;)

The reason behind Monotheism is one the historical timeline and second the foundation of Monotheism doesn't necessary gives you a religion. As an example Abraham and Noah.

Regards
Houman
 
Houman- Roger that.... will register with that site to upload directly to the project and will follow the number system from now on. Do I need to change what I have posted already?
 
@Nightravn,

I had a look into the file and yeah the Mod=Mods/Realism was disappeared. So you have to do that.

I haven't loaded the game yet, since I am modding. But I will overfly the map tonight and give you my opinion.

Many thanks
Houman
 
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