[MOD] Realism:The Third Resurrection

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Hmmm that is interesting predicament. I would suggest that the Manhattan Project instead of providing a nuclear Silo in every city should provide a production bonus to building nuclear silos and/or nuclear reactors. One probably doesn't want nuclear silos in every cities anyways but in designated areas.

OR

Take away the requirement that nuclear reactors from the silos and require that you have 2 nuclear reactors some where in your CIV to build Nuclear Silo's.
 
Yes, an old empire covered in resources might be a problem, but some countries do heavilly concentrate in this manner. If the Pharaoh wants every flood plain covered in wheat crops it had better be done! :whipped:

The age of colonialisation was not so long ago when some empires used other peoples land for space to grow resources in huge concentrations. As in history, this adds new potential for war. Sorry Montezuma, i need to sack your cities to bolster my treasury and use your lands to plant coffee. :lol:

Research cost for all techs would have to be increased after plantation to make it fit nicer with actual history, and to deal with the historical problems everyone seems to be experiencing. Cunning players dont usually go through dark ages except after a long war, so they learn things very early.

Seems like people want this, and as for burning, looting, and exploiting resources, how attractive a target does a civ become that has lands filled with milk and honey? :religion: :yup:
 
For replantable/importable resources to make it realistic and balanced here are some suggestions:
-make it take many turns to build around 20
-once completed it should consume the worker
-have it possible to pillage the resource. so having this imported resource destoryed would really hurt because you would have to waste so many turns to build another worker and have the worker build another new resource.
-optional:make it so the new resource isn't tradable

When considering adding stuff please do not give up balance for a little more realism.

Paulk
 
C'mon, twenty turns? Were just planting crops and raising animals here. They have to be tradeable. So its just like in the real world, where huge numbers of multiple goods are traded, not a few resources per continent. Could go with the consumption of the worker, though it seems just too focused on limitation.

All civs still do only have so many squares they can put resources on. If they stretch out to your far borders, your vulnerable from cultural takeover and pillaging.

Increasing research cost will even it out. Will also help to follow history. If you want to really get ahead as per say England did by using India, you need to have an empire going with lots of resources flowing in.

Houman, whats your take on this?
 
But don't you see the problems with health and happiness. All of these extra resources will be adding to the already over-abundant health and happiness. This mod already makes the game a bit easier imho, but I like the fun of the extra resources.

Allowing empires to be covered in resources shoots any sort of balance all to hell. Every city will grow huge, no health or happiness issues, and trade will be a none issue with all those resources.

I think this is a bad idea.
 
Yes, the health and happiness problem is a big one that would need to be fixed. We could remove the health bonus, and the abundance of food would address any loss due to ill-health. Cities would look like cesspools, but that too would be realistic for certain times. Problems would come from civs with the caste system and thirty scientists. :sad: If we removed the happiness benefit of resources, with the population growth insurrection would be the order of the day. If we keep the happiness benefit and increase the unhappiness penalties for actions then any civ without a load of luxury resources wont be able to do a thing. :sad:

Cities will only grow huge if a civ spends a lot of time (and workers) focusing upon them. A focus on enriching the countryside is not a focus on military. Also seem to forget that cities actually do this. A city in a great position with lots of food coming in grows greatly. Chinese cities and the benefits of rice-fields anyone?

Is it possible to give fraction benefits from resources? +0.5, +0.2 etc.

This is how it is, so there must be some way to make it work... But reworking the whole system may be the only hope. Help me Kenobi!
 
Guys guys,

I like your enhusiastic approach toward this problem. However I must disappoint you in this matter. This is as far as I know technically impossible to implement unless we have a lot more Python experts joining us. Besides Blues argument is correct. What you are saying is realstic, however it will outbalance the game badly. Do not forget: certainly we can grow resources in the real world and make them permanent. However the real world trade and economic system is 1000x more complicated than this simple way in CIV.

In CIV a single Banana resource is enough to keep all your cities in your contitent happy. A single Oil resource is enough to deliver power to all your Tanks, Airplanes and cities. Therefore if we add to more resources, we would kill the game.

Regards
Houman
 
Yeah Houman, your right. Reworking, no, remaking the entire game is beyond us.

I am really looking forward to the new version. Especially the new ideas and slavery being fixed up.
 
@ All : why not add news civs ? It seem that on CivFanatics exist two different packs of animated leaderheads...

One from amra and one from the team of Sevo
 
Nightravn said:
With the World Map you have to use it as a scenario. Unfortunately you can only use map scripts with custom games.

I wonder if we could make a map script that generated the world map.

:)

Israfil.
 
AvianAvenger said:
Is there going to be an update soon? its been a while..., no rush or anything i dont excatly have time to play. I was just curious because they're is no next release date on the main page.

While we will release from time to time, if people are really really desperate to get features early, they can check out the latest and greatest (experimental) version from sourceforge. Using any Subversion (SVN) client, they can use the following repository url to get the mod. Beware, though - you may check out the mod in an unstable state. If someone forgot to check in a file and you check it out before they find the mistake and fix it, you may end up with a broken mod temporarily. Of course you can always blow it away and re-install form a stable release.

The url is:
https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/civ4mods/trunk/civ4.mod.realism/src/mod/Realism

Israfil.
 
Hey all,

I just implemented Dualism as a companion to Monotheism and Polytheism. By Dualism is meant oppositional or Theistic dualism - where two opposites struggle for spiritual dominion (god vs. devil, etc). This concept was not originally in either strict monotheism nor polytheism. From this, the above three depend on Mysticism, and priesthood and meditation can derive from any or all of the above three.

The main thing here was to re-target Zoroastrianism on a technology that didn't depend on hinduism's or judaism's dependencies. Now, since any three can be constructed, but not simultaneously, nor in series, it is much less likely that someone will found more than one of these three, and they should show up fairly closely to each other in time.

One thing I was thinking about as a continuation of this notion is to have any and all inquisitor units dependent on having dualism, since without this good vs. evil struggle, the whole notion that other religions must be elimitated or prevented from being present is less meaningful. The counter-argument to this is that zoroastrianism, whilst monotheistic and dualistic, nevertheless was sometimes exclusivist and sometimes inclusivist, depending on which Persian dynasty you are looking at... speaking historically anyway. So it doesn't automatically track that dualism implies religious exclusivism. That seems to be a more modern notion.

Oddly enough, most ancient religions tolerated each others' presence, even if they did not approve or concede their validity. Possibly this was because so few in history have been truly dominant over a vast majority, and most religions sparked in contexts where there were many local gods, etc. It seems that the combination of monotheism with dualism, plus some added ingredient made religious exclusivism the "in" thing. Perhaps we can have another tech "exclusivism" which gives you inquisition. Hmm.

Anyway, dualism is in with zoroastrianism dependent on it, so at least some of our historical balance is improved. Suggestions for a graphic for dualism are welcome, as at present I just copied priesthood. Also any suggestions for additional value to Dualism apart from simply founding Zoroastrianism would be welcome. I haven't thought of any apart from the above discussion.

Israfil.
 
Hey Lachlan, new civs would be a good idea, as would the vast number of new leaders added in the leaders mod. But some civs are poorly done, as well as there is the possibility the floodgates would be open, with everyone wanting yet another civ to be added. We could just add the most important. Ottoman's etc.
 
Speaking of leaders, I've added Ali ibn-Talib as a second leader for Arabia. Given that Saladin is actually Kurdish, not an Arab, and that there are few truly universal leaders of the Arabs that I can think of in history, I chose Ali. Particularly because Ali is the only leader in Islam that was (for a time) recognized as the leader of the community by both the Shi'ah and Sunni factions.

His leadership traits are identical to hashteput's (spi/cre).

If anyone can find a decent pre-islamic leader for the Arab civ, that would be good too, but I can't think of one.

Israfil.
 
Oh, and I just re-used Saladin graphics for Ali, having very little graphical talent, and no tools by which to make an animation out of icons.
 
@all

Regarding new Civ, this is one of the most challenging and time consuming aspects. We have right now so much other stuff to implement, adjust and balance...there is just no time to add a poorly civ.

You will be surprised how much has been done in the coming version. We have nr 98 (!) versions in the repository! 98 changes, implementation since the project went OpenSource. And there have even been some changes done since ver 0.7208 before we went OpenSource. We have put altogether at least 60 hours developing, analyzing and administrating into the coming version.

Maybe you would now understand why we cannot add everything without planning! ;)
 
israfil said:
Hey all,

I just implemented Dualism as a companion to Monotheism and Polytheism. By Dualism is meant oppositional or Theistic dualism - where two opposites struggle for spiritual dominion (god vs. devil, etc). This concept was not originally in either strict monotheism nor polytheism. From this, the above three depend on Mysticism, and priesthood and meditation can derive from any or all of the above three.

The main thing here was to re-target Zoroastrianism on a technology that didn't depend on hinduism's or judaism's dependencies. Now, since any three can be constructed, but not simultaneously, nor in series, it is much less likely that someone will found more than one of these three, and they should show up fairly closely to each other in time.

One thing I was thinking about as a continuation of this notion is to have any and all inquisitor units dependent on having dualism, since without this good vs. evil struggle, the whole notion that other religions must be elimitated or prevented from being present is less meaningful. The counter-argument to this is that zoroastrianism, whilst monotheistic and dualistic, nevertheless was sometimes exclusivist and sometimes inclusivist, depending on which Persian dynasty you are looking at... speaking historically anyway. So it doesn't automatically track that dualism implies religious exclusivism. That seems to be a more modern notion.

Oddly enough, most ancient religions tolerated each others' presence, even if they did not approve or concede their validity. Possibly this was because so few in history have been truly dominant over a vast majority, and most religions sparked in contexts where there were many local gods, etc. It seems that the combination of monotheism with dualism, plus some added ingredient made religious exclusivism the "in" thing. Perhaps we can have another tech "exclusivism" which gives you inquisition. Hmm.

Anyway, dualism is in with zoroastrianism dependent on it, so at least some of our historical balance is improved. Suggestions for a graphic for dualism are welcome, as at present I just copied priesthood. Also any suggestions for additional value to Dualism apart from simply founding Zoroastrianism would be welcome. I haven't thought of any apart from the above discussion.

Israfil.


Excellent Analysis, Israfil !!! I agree on that.

Regarding the Inquisitions, we could make the Inquisition Units dependent on two Techs. The techs that reveal there own religion and on Dualism - or exclusivism. That might work..have to test it though...

Houman
 
@ekephart

Thanks for pointing out the error with ICBMS. The problem is fixed now!!

I had implemented the req. for 1 Nuclear Reactor for each Silo. There is another xml tag that defines if a certain class needs to be in the same city or not. You are allowed to skip this tag without true or false. So I thought by not defining it, it thinks the Nuclear reactor can be anywhere. But no it thinks the other way around. One of those bugs you can't even see in the Description or Worldbuilder....I wished Worldbuilder was a bit more functional to be a better real live debugger...

Now I have inserted the Tag and defined explicitly "false" it doesn't need to be in the city. So now after this fix *crossthefingers* it should work. ;)

Houman
 
Oh my God.....

The new Patch 1.61 is out....a new patch is always the nightmare of every modder...:(

Everyone will now rush to install the new patch and all the Mods will become incompatible....Damn couldn't they wait until after Easter? We were so close to the release, if the new Patch has done fundamental changes, it will throw us back for weeks until we get there where we are now...

:(
 
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