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[MOD] Realism:The Third Resurrection

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Houman, Feb 20, 2006.

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  1. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    Thanks for this report, Blue.

    I fixed it:
    - Inquisition Building will now remove every turn all religions other than the state religion and not only when it was once built.

    Regarding the spreadrate of christianity it is by 25% (the lowest of all religions, but Christianity allows you to build cheap missionaries and up to 10 of them (most of other religions).

    I suppose we should decrese the allowance of Missionaries from 10 to 7 and an cost increase of 33% to slow them down, do you think that would be good enough + the updated inquisition building above?

    Thanks
    Houman
     
  2. AvianAvenger

    AvianAvenger Warlord

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    Is there going to be an update soon? its been a while..., no rush or anything i dont excatly have time to play. I was just curious because they're is no next release date on the main page.

    Its my opinion that all resources should initially be invisible, if a civ does not know of the significance or how to make use of a resource, why would they be looking out to settle down near it? how would they even know about it? e.g. gold mining, you dont just know where gold is located by looking around on the surface.
    Settler = "...Lets set up camp here next to this big pile of gold. wine & marble" ~just doesn't seem right for a bunch of people interested in fish to go looking for things they dont yet comprehend how to make use of.

    The only exceptions to this would be animals i suppose, foods food. But as for the others, why should they gain a production bonus from something they dont yet know how to use.
     
  3. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    I think we should distinguish between living resources and natural resources. Horses, sheeps and cows were around, even if humans didn't know how to use them. (Even though cows are sheeps are domestic animals and wouldn't exist without humans anyway, hehe)

    Iron, Gold and others cannot be understood and distinguished without the proper knowledge and living running animals are though.

    If we hide all the resources at the beginning, there might be a big problem in starting cities. AI might think there is not much around the first position and move the settlers in a worse position. This might unbalance the game again.

    Regards
    houman
     
  4. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    Good news!

    Finally we got a python expert as a freelancer for our project. Most of you would know him as 12Monkeys. :)

    He is working at this time on the new Razing City and Judaism Religion.

    An estimated releasedate for the netx version is this coming weekend. :) BUt this isn't carved into Stone and might get postponed.

    Regards
    Houman
     
  5. Perfect_Blue

    Perfect_Blue Yume Senshi

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    Updated inquisition sounds good; you're saying as long as the inquisition building is in the city there will be no spread of 'heathen' religions, right? If so, that's all one could ask for, much thanks. :)

    As for resource visibility, I follow the point above about living versus mineral resources. Maybe my people don't know how to use horses yet, but we know there's a big herd of them right over the hill. I'd say leave them visible.

    By the by, has anyone played Fall from Heaven? I like the way the first settler works in that mod. It has a rather large sight radius and some decent movement (4, I think?). I like it because it allows one to move on the first turn to a better position and not get screwed in the game for starting late. Makes sense to; If those little tribal huts have maps of their regions, my tribe should have a map of its region. Maybe it could be toned down a bit, but I do like the option to rebase on the first turn, coupled with a decent sight radius.
     
  6. Nightravn

    Nightravn Warlord

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    Houman- are we going to put Judaism back on Monotheism? And have you thought about my suggestion of moving Christianity up before feudalism? If we do that and adjust it's cost we should be able to have it found just after the turn to AD.

    Didn't know about the barracks but now I do. The time line is pretty good at the moment. Playing Rome if I beeline for iron working I can get Praetorian around 1800-2000 BCE. Though If you play more realistically and do some of the other Techs in order to make it so your not totally gimp when you do get them then I usually get them around 1000 BCE or so. Maybe we could increase the Iron Working cost just a tad and see where that gets us, I'll play around with it and let you know my findings.

    On the New Map I have distributed the resources in order to promote trading and I put forests on most mountains. I figured that way if you have one in your city area then it is not a complete waste cause now you will get a health benefit. Beside most mountain ranges do have tree up till the snow line anyways so it is basically realistic.
     
  7. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    @Blue,

    Yes the inquisition should do now what you exactly have described. :) That makes inquisitions worthier than before.

    Regarding first settler, different move etc...it is not a bad idea, however, since all starting cities (capitals) have tons of supporting ressources for the beginning, no one would be doomed to not stay at the spot. ;) Especially AI always places the city on 4000BC. So fooling around there won't be of much use at this time.

    @Nightravn,

    You really have the map under control, which is very good. I like your idea about the forest on mountain. I never throught about it that way. The tech costs will be increased for all but especcially those after middle age.

    How is the OpenTech? Do you like it?

    I haven't forgotten religions, I will take care of them tonight.

    Houman
     
  8. Nightravn

    Nightravn Warlord

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    Thanks, I am trying...... as for the open tech I'm not sure I have that version as the change log didn't say you had implemented it yet but either way I haven't got that far in my test games. Been focusing on the early period trying to get the balance right.

    Good to hear about those religions. I'll DL the updated version once your done and do some more testing. It will nice to have someone other than Isabella found a religion. Though it is kinda nice when she does and then I take her out... :evil: :ninja: :dance:
     
  9. Perfect_Blue

    Perfect_Blue Yume Senshi

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    Also noted that this mod doesn't allow one to edit unit names by left-clicking the name in the lower left corner. One can still go in through world-editor and rename them, but that's a pain and I'm always tempted to look around. I know its a small thing, but I would be grateful if easy naming of units would be re-enabled.
     
  10. AvianAvenger

    AvianAvenger Warlord

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    @Houman

    So basically make everything that needs to be mined or quarried invisible ~sounds good to me. Initially at the start of a game you only need food anyway...
     
  11. Los Tirano

    Los Tirano God-King

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    Driving my enemies before me.
    I have a proposal for changing plantations and crop resources. Currently some lucky areas have special resources, but short of building a plantation or farm that is it. You can use the square but resources dont spread to new lands, and this is thus, unrealistic.

    So, how about we make it so that once you have a resource, through one plantation or farm, workers can be instructed to begin building this resources elsewhere on other plots. Introducing new resources will take a great many turns.

    People will scream game inbalance, but we wont allow it for horses or minerals, though cows sound reasonable. Economies such as New Zealand greatly rely on dairy products. Cows were originally imported and established in New Zealand, which is what this addition intends to do.

    Also when taking over new countries, such as the 'New World' workers can be brought in and plantations established. This will bring more realism, but it would need to be usable by the computer also.

    Now, what do other people think about this idea?
     
  12. Paulk

    Paulk Humanite

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    It should consume the worker and take many turns. I think i saw that idea in another thread as well. I've been hoping for something like this for a while. Also resources that are traded to you should also be able to be replanted. But if this is included it will be questionable wheather the AI will be able to use it. May take a lot of coding.
    Paulk
     
  13. Los Tirano

    Los Tirano God-King

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    Yes, consuming the worker sounds reasonable.
     
  14. Bolleque

    Bolleque Chieftain

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    I have another idea about saltpeter. Is it really needed as a resource?
    IMO it was not so important for civilisations in real history as it is now in the game.
    Saltpeter is required basically for all gunpowder unit. Lack of this resource causes that your civilisation is ruled out of the game :(

    You could manage without iron or oil (difficult but possible) but without saltpeter you are dead.

    There are solutions:
    1. remove it
    2. make it very common (but it does not make much sense)
    3. make it required for only early gunpowder units as it was in civ3

    I am keen to play your mod on random map. I tried but it was not playable only because of distribution of saltpeter on map. Then we could solve both issues in the same time :D
     
  15. jbolton0421

    jbolton0421 Chieftain

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    It would add to the realism. :D
    The replants/imports should go to appropriate plots (cows/sheep in grassland, bananas in the jungle, etc.)
    I agree with the longer build times.
    But, why consume the worker? :confused:

    If the AI can find suitable city locations, then it should be simpler to find workable spots for farms, pastures, plantations. The harder question is when? does it do it. When it imports something for the first time? Does it try to build enough for export? (I think pineapple was introduced to Hawaii from Cuba).

    This is a great mod!!!
     
  16. Bolleque

    Bolleque Chieftain

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    But if we introduce a possibility to plant resources - there should be also a possibility to remove it. Burn, baby, burn !!!

    This whole concept adds to realism but might adversly affect balance and playability.
     
  17. Nightravn

    Nightravn Warlord

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    We put the saltpeter in the game specifically for the reason to make gunpowder units depend on it. It adds to the strategic play of the game and it seemed that since most other units required a resource that gunpowder units should as well. Which is why I tried to put most of the strategic resources, other than copper and iron, in areas in-between the CIV's starting points on the World Map. While you are right that you can last a little while while out copper or iron, it won't be for to long though.

    Once we get the Main components of the MOD done and it should be pretty good to go soon. Then we will look at the Random map maker to adjust its properties to balance it out. If You know how to do that then go for it as we could use the help and someone with the knowledge to do it.
     
  18. Nightravn

    Nightravn Warlord

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    Planting Resources will take away from the strategic aspect of the game and the way the resource are spread to promote trading and/or "colonization" ie conquering. While granted it is realistic, I think it would greatly effect balance.

    If you want them Banana's then go get them or become chums with the person who has them.

    Just to let yall know I played a test game to about 750 BCE last night as the Romans and the Change in their strength to 6 with a 25% bonus verse Archers and 50% verses Melee is very balanced for the time. They had a distinctive advantage but it is not overly so like it was before. Also the Aggressive AI on this came is great. It seems almost everyone starts off annoyed at you and when after I had conquered France and was in the process of conquering Spain, Mr Bismark decided to take advantage of the situation and Declared on me. Now I had most of my troops in Spain about to take poor Ole Isabella out so It was a pure Player like move. I was both very surprised and very pleased with it. Unfortunately Mr Bismark didn't wait to have all is troops in position before declaring and I had enough troops to hold him off at first. SO I finished Miss Bella off in Spain, though she as at least one other city in Africa, declared peace with her and proceeded to move my front to Germany.

    With all that being said it is a much more balance scenario than it was before the mod to the Praetorians and I am not just wiping them out like before. It is actually quite a hoot.
     
  19. Perfect_Blue

    Perfect_Blue Yume Senshi

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    Well, I'm not screaming, but I do feel that could be too unbalancing. Even if it takes a while, like terraforming, just thinking of an old empire covered in resources. Tell me that's not unbalancing. Why move out if I can just build resources? Why go to war or trade? Would trade even matter anymore? And of course, a big one, would the AI (loosely applied) even start to get the hang of it?

    Personally, I think this mod already adds a bunch of resources and makes it sometimes much easier to have high health and happiness, plus more resources are on the map, period. Does one really want to put in a feature to add even more?
     
  20. ekephart

    ekephart Chieftain

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    Hello all.

    I've run into a problem, that I'm not sure has been addressed. I've searched this thread but coudln't find too much. I'm playing as the Romans and have finally reached a point where I should be able to build nukes. So here goes...

    The Manhattan Project requires a total of 2 Nuclear Reactors. It also provides a Nuclear Silo in every city. However a Nuclear Silo also requires a Nuclear Reactor. And to build an ICBM you need a Nuclear Silo in that particular city. I recently built the Manhattan Project but have not been able to build ICBMs. It seems once a Nuclear Silo is placed in each city via the Manhattan Project the game sees this as a requirement for a Nuclear Reactor in every city in order to "use" the Nuclear Silo to build ICBMs. Has this been addressed? I wouldn't think you'd want to remove the Nuclear Reactor requirement for Nuclear Silos...

    Thoughts?
     
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