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[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Houman, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Mexico

    Mexico TR senior programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
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    578
    Location:
    Slovakia, Kosice
    1) will be resolved in next patch
    2) the same :)
    3) FAQ..hmm.good idea...

    and about patch.... right now i am testing new code (updated religion mod, new DLL, updated mercenary, ...) and i must say: we got some performance improvement...we need some tests before release, but i hope that this weekend we can release this patch
     
  2. bovinespy

    bovinespy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    310
    First off - this is a GREAT mod! Thank you very much! I love the feel of the game, especially on the Earth map. I've got my first game going as England on Noble. After getting out to a large tech lead, I closed my borders to keep others from catching up, and now that they're starting to get close in tech level, I've got the difficult decision whether to stay isolated and lose lots of trade $, or open up, and let my rivals gain on me even faster. It's somewhat reminiscent of medieval China IRL, where they were way ahead of the West, but then cut themselves off from the rest of the world. Great stuff!:goodjob:

    As far as suggestions, like others have posted, I would also like to see the maintenance cost for mercs significantly reduced - not just to prevent player exploits from "leasing out" his troops, but also because I'd really like to see what it's like to hire one of those Level 11 badboys, but I haven't done it yet (because I just can't justify tanking my economy/research for ONE unit). That said, I really like that mercs are in the game. As England, I "rented" a unit of catapults eons before I could build them myself, and they proved crucial to gaining Oslo off the barbs just ahead of the French and Russians.

    Also, as I suggested in the General Discussions forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=174051), perhaps it would be little more realistic to swap leader traits for Genghis Khan and Tokugawa. The Mongols should (IMHO) have the Organized trait, to encourage them in building a huge empire, whereas the Japanese should have the Expansive trait to encourage them to build huge cities and squeeze every last little bit out of what land they have. Not a big deal and certainly not a gamebreaker by any means, but just food for thought....

    Not sure if it's related to the earlier discussed religion bugs, but in my game, Hinduism was founded normally, but doesn't reside in any city! Instead, the holy city appears/re-appears every 10 years:confused: I guess you guys will take care of that eventually.

    Great work - I can't wait to see the next update!:king:
     
  3. Raize

    Raize Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    162
    I can't seem to get the Terraforming (except for Land -> Water) to work, despite haing researched all the way up through "More Terraforming".

    Mainly I'm trying to convert Water->Land to form landbridges throughout SE Asia. My workboats aren't giving me the option.

    Is there some trick to it?
     
  4. Toys®Us

    Toys®Us Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
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    159
    Location:
    Shawinigan
    Same problem.
    :)
     
  5. Nightravn

    Nightravn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    239
    WoW allot of feedback here so were to start? how about at the End and work my way back.

    Terra-forming Issue - WOW you actually made it to the Modern Age? What's it feel like, I haven't been able to get there as of yet so am not aware of this issue. Is the flow of the game good in that time. As for the problem with Terra forming could you please post it in the bug tracker on sourceforge.

    Slave Mod- I like your Ideas Ruben but this Mod came from Naf4ever's Mod and he tried the Super-specialist Slave but the problem was that if you had the Representative civic those slaves got the added research bonus making them way to powerful. This is something we will have to look at for the future. As for spawning inferior units well if we did that then there would be much chance of them actually doing anything of significance. Though I suppose we could increase the amount of them say to double the amount of garrisoned units because there were usually many more slaves then soldiers. If we can get it to work there would have to always be a chance of revolt no matter how many Troops were stationed in the city though the probably of a revolt could be a sliding scale depending on the number of troops.

    AI Aggression - Well we added this to have the AI fight more often and be more competitive with the player. I shall do some tests without it to see how it fairs.

    Merc's - We are modifying this so the Merc's level won't be so high and will be adjusting their costs as well.

    Helping the Helpless Romans - I don't know what to do for that wimp who calls himself Caesar other than play him so he gets the glory he deserves. I think we will have to modify some of his traits in order to make him more manly. I will think about adding the Gold mine but that just make him as a player Civ way to powerful.

    Cottages - Higherlander I too have come to this conclusion and will be discussing it with the other team members though if we do put it back I will be suggesting that the time it takes to grow each level be increased and possibly doubled. With the turn length of this game I think that is in order anyways. We moved them for 2 reasons, one was to help control the timeline a little and to nerf the overpowered financial trait. With the absences of years the timeline is not as critical and with the other things we did to tweak the financial trait and increasing the development time for the different stages of cottages should help keep that in line as well.

    Slowness of Game - To everyone we are very much aware of this issue and have actually reduced it for the upcoming patch. It was caused with the addition of the Religion and Raze City mod but 12Monkeys as increased the performance and fixed the issues we had with it.

    Overpowered Russian or any Civ - well the promblem is not that the Russians are over powered it is that the AI sucks at combat. We can only do so much with the AI and that is usally limited to giving units or production bonuses. The only thing I can suggest is that if you find it to easy is to go up a level or 2. Someone asked what level this game was "balanced at" and the answers is that I tried to make it Fun and tough at the Noble Level where as that is where the game is balanced to begin with. Once you go up in levels the AI gets bonuses so if you are finding the Emporer Level to hard then good you shouldn't have to give the AI a bunch of Bonuses to be challanging but until someone comes up with a better AI engine we are stuck with that limitation.
     
  6. Aragorn7

    Aragorn7 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Denmark
    Hi!

    I first want to congratulate you for this unique and exciting mod you made.
    I really love it and it is a very good alternative to Sevo´s Mod.
    However, I have some questions for you.
    It is nice to see the barbarian cities with realistic names but something that bothers me is that the barbarians are spawning in the heart of my kingdom without crossing my borders first. Is that a bug? If it ain´t a bug then I think it is pretty unrealistic and a big minus, but I am eager to hear an explanation on that subject.
    Another thing is the Mercenaries Mod! In the early stages of the game it is easy to contract out your armies, but in the later eras the amount of contracted armies are almost zero. Is that because the barbarian civs almost are wiped out and the other civs are at peace?
    I noticed that after a hole Era without lending out some armies, two civs went to war on each other and suddenly one of the civs hired one of my armies. Is that how it works?
     
  7. Nightravn

    Nightravn Chieftain

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    Aragorn - the Barbs spawning inside of your borders is the result of a slave revolt and it is a byproduct of using the slavery civic. This is the "cost" for the "benifit" of having slaves.

    As for the Merc's, yes this is how it works the Civs won't be hiring Mercs unless there is a need for them ie War.
     
  8. Mexico

    Mexico TR senior programmer

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    Location:
    Slovakia, Kosice
    don't get this as offence, i know that there is too much pages in this forum - but in start menu you have link to readme.txt , and seraching in forum is working too - this is not bug, this is feature: - if you adopted slavery civic, it is small chance, that your slaves initiate revolt -> spawning barbarian unit around your city
     
  9. Toys®Us

    Toys®Us Chieftain

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    Location:
    Shawinigan
    A report is posted to SourceForge about the terraforming problem.
    The flow of the game is OK for me, despite the fact that many others are complaining. I'm using a powerful computer I think. :rolleyes:
    I'm a chess player, so when you play 40 moves / 2hrs 30min, you learn to be patient.
    At the end of the game, with approximately a population (mine) of 4200, the AI took an average of 15-20sec per move. Sometimes 6, sometimes, 30, etc... with 10 civilizations still alive, one destroyed.
    ===
    I really like the addition of salpeter.... When you don't have some on your territory, you're feeling strange suddenly!
    :hmm:
    ===
    I tried to pass through the ice with a battleship, but it was not possible. Maybe just with the workboats or destroyers...
    I'll try again at the first opportunity.
    Too much new rules and concepts to learn for me in a first game.
    I'm confused a bit.
    *****
    It takes a long time to complete a game. I love it like that.
    Thank you.

    A great MOD.
    "One of" my favorites.
    :)
     
  10. Mexico

    Mexico TR senior programmer

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    Location:
    Slovakia, Kosice
    :)
    ice: yes, you can break ice only with destroyer or workboat (breaking ice take 2 turns, if i remember good)
    speed: as i mentioned above, new version of dll and python code will improve speed (delay between turns), also i am working on new python code, which improve perfromance too (but my code will be released in later patch - too much working)
    terraforming: ok, i've got this report..i don't know, if i can solve this to next patch (i don't want to shift release of new patch -right now is planed for weekend, but there is too much work to do, and no time)
     
  11. Houman

    Houman TR Team Leader

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    Thank you for comment. :)

    How do you explain that Expansive trait moves vertically instead of horizontally? Are you sure that taking Organized from Japan and giving it to Mongolia would make Mongolia actually to expand right? And Expansive for Japan makes them more of an Isolatanist?

    Thanks
    Houman
     
  12. Nightravn

    Nightravn Chieftain

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    Toy, when I said Flow of the game I didn't mean the turn length but was trying to see how you felt about how the game played out. Are you getting enough turns in per Era to make each feel significant. Or are you blowing through the Industrial Era like it wasn't there..... that type of flow is what I am concerned about. Each Era should play like ONE ie Era's are lengthy and should be enjoyed for what each offer.
     
  13. Toys®Us

    Toys®Us Chieftain

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    OK. I understand now.
    When I was in the Industrial Era, I didn't notice something yet. Then came the "Modern Era", and it was like it wasn't there (your own words).

    I clearly remember the feeling inside when I won the space race...
    Game over? Now?
    When you're asking yourself a question like that after 3 days, maybe there's something wrong, yes.

    I need to play more games to confirm.
    BUT my feeling inside was real.

    Another thing I need to test in the future: is it possible to build ICBMs?
    I'll let you know later, or someone will report the correct answer.
    :borg:

    EDIT: I didn't have the time to elaborate a strategy with the nukes. It was not my intention to build the Manhattan Project. In fact, I always try to avoid it. But suddenly I realized that 2 nuclear plants were needed to build the nuclar silos. A surprise for me. For the first time since I'm playing Civ4, it's like I was forced to use the nuclear technology. And with the Manhattan Project, you obtain 1 FREE silo in each city (?) <---Maybe a big mistake here. WE ALL WANT to be the first to have the nuclear bomb (to avoid to build the silos and gain time advantage)! But it was the end of the game... for me.
    Maybe that's why it appeared so fast (the ending).
    Please, WAIT for more reports from testers.
    I'm just giving you my impressions.
     
  14. bramage

    bramage Chieftain

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    Feb 6, 2006
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    is it possible to use this mod with the earth realism map 1.5.3 or any other maps???? the other times i have played with the earth realism map 1.5 with the first total realism mod, i could not get saltpeter(therefore was not able to train riflemen). please let me know.
     
  15. Mexico

    Mexico TR senior programmer

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    no, as you mentioned, you can't get bonuses, if you load map which is not prepared for TotalRealism mod (this is same for each mod, which has own set of bonuses, not only for realism). but you can use generated map
     
  16. Nightmare01

    Nightmare01 Chieftain

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    Hey guys this is really a great mod, i personally prefer it over sevomod and the vanilla version. The game feels and looks alot better !


    One thing i noticed:

    I started the world map as Germans on Prince level (my usual difficult). As i had alot of neighbors i ran out of free space very soon so i switched to warmonger mode and started to conquer several towns. My army was to big to maintain it permanent. So i burned alot of them in an final assault on rome. After that my unit upkeep was nearly at zero but i still made alot deficit. The City maintenance made me bankrupt, even with research at 0% and maxing out the commerce in all cities it was at -11 gold per turn. The only income that had kept me alive all the time were the loot from the conquered cities. I checked out the AIs with the world builder and noone of them expanded beyond 5 cities, even when they had plenty of space to do so.
    I didnt continued to play as i couldnt raze any cities nor i could find a way out of this financial dilemma. I have had 9 cities to maintain at that point, isnt it supposed to have that much cities in the ancient age or did i something wrong ?


    Oh and i have some small suggestions too ;)

    I very much like the submarine bonus vs. various ships. Very realistic !
    How about a new tech named 'Sensors' which will include Radar and Sonar systems.
    This could bring a promotion for the destroyers.
    like 'ASW' (Anti Submarine Warfare) +25% vs. all Subs
    Its like in WWII. In the beginning the allies didnt had much chances to catch the german subs. Later on when the Sonar systems got improved it was alot easier for the destroyers to hunt down the subs.

    Also adding +1 visibility for all modern ships with the developement of Radar would make sense.

    About the slave revolts. Very nice idea but they just happen to often. In my case every 2nd or 3rd turn a rebel attacked one or more of my cities. My garrison forces got alot XP just by beating these morons :crazyeye:
    This feature could be exploited to produce super hero units.

    You may also check out the revolution mod. It gives a really nice addition to the game feeling. The rebellions and barbarians are not only in the ancient times a problem but throughout the whole game.

    keep up the good work lads, cant wait for the next update :goodjob:
     
  17. Mexico

    Mexico TR senior programmer

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    thank you for your ideas about sensor- we will think about this for future releases
    about slaves: yes, we are aware about this , this problem will be adressed in some later patch
    about revolution mod: already in feature request. this mod is based on SDK modification and we have Realism based on SDK too, so this can take some time to integrate together
     
  18. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

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    Adding a rebellion mechanism is definitely a must for total realism. No one has ever conquered the world in real life -- because after a few years, conquered territories eventually reclaim their independence. This would allow a much more accurate simulation of reality.
     
  19. Redman77

    Redman77 Chieftain

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    This is a great mod have no complaints Just 1 suggestion can you add more civs & leaders.
     
  20. Vishaing

    Vishaing The Son

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    Mar 9, 2006
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    I remember having this idea when talkiing about the slave mod and requesting slave specialists back in. My idea to balance the +3 research was to suggest a conditional -3 research to the slave specialist. Essentially, I believe that one should put a simple if/then statement in somewhere that "If civic = representation, then slave generates -3 research." Thus the -3 would balance with the +3. I'm not sure if it's really possible, but it couldn't hurt to try right?
     

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