1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Houman, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Mexico

    Mexico TR senior programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    578
    Location:
    Slovakia, Kosice
    regarding customassets : yet, it will recreate empty directory structure every time, so you can keep them (until is empty). if you wan use other stuff for other mods, you can rename your modified asset befor playng realism to something like CustomAssets.old, and when want plaing other games, just rename back

    regarding other maps - it is not suggested using other pre-made maps (only randomly generated)
     
  2. carnivore

    carnivore Digital Monkey

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    123
    so you say no scenarios for this mod ??
    bah

    will the team make scenarios that works with this mod ? it has HUGE potential to be the best mod

    it's like new game for me , but the lack of scenrios is a bit disappointing

    thanx anyway
     
  3. Mexico

    Mexico TR senior programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    578
    Location:
    Slovakia, Kosice
    yes, we plan to make more maps in future, yet we are fighting with some bugs and with performance problems

    as i mentioned before, you stiil can use generated map
    btw, which scenario map you was tried with error?
     
  4. carnivore

    carnivore Digital Monkey

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    123
    is earth1000 ad , which came with the original game , i think the other scenrios , with built up kindoms and all doesnt work either

    check it out
     
  5. Highlander_

    Highlander_ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Gdansk, Poland
    Congratulations for all TR team for developing this mod. Range of changes is really impressive. I've recently played Russian Civ at Prince Diff using TR 2.0 mod and I want to share my remarks. Maybe some of them will be useful for further development.

    1) General conclusion: Russia is overpowered. This civ has very lagre area for expansion and can easily dominate and lock expansion for european civs, especially Germans and Greeks. Surrounding barbarians cities makes expansion even easier (read below). After 200 turns I still could expand eastwards, but the high maintenance cost stopped me.

    I don't know if its a bug, but I was able to produce Hypasist unit, which was in reality Greek/Macedonian one. This unit is very powerful and allowed me to capture all surrounding barb cities while other civs had only achers/warriors and were unable to attack barbs.

    2) About barbarian cities concept. The idea is cool and of historical accuracy, but I'm afraid it doesn't work for computer AI. During the first 200 turns of the game revealed computer players didn't captured any of weakly defended barb cities. Instead, they produced costly settlers and were wandering desperately looking for free place outside cultural borders of surrounding babrarian cities. Example: I captured Riga before Germans, who passed it round and settled in Finland.
    Next case is stupid barbarian strategy. City garrisons preferred to commit suicide attacks on my units waiting in nearby forest - instead of waiting behind the city walls. That's why it was easy to capture city defended by 4 archers with one Hypasist, because 3 of 4 archers died attacking me even though it was absurd.
    Is it possible to adjust barbarian and computer player AI in this area?

    3) About unit promotions concept. I think that current version is too complex to be playable and balanceable. Examples: Is there a point in giving "Wild Axeman" +5% defence bonus againts "Swordsman"? Or giving "Swordsman" bonus against "Bental Tiger" unit? +50% bonus for Hypasist against "melee city garrisons" is too powerful.
    I also doesn't get the idea of bonuses for stacks of the same units. History shows the opposite - you can dominate battlefield properly cooperating tanks with infrantry and dive bombers, archers/musketeers with pikemen, etc.

    4) Game rebalancing. As I can see, you've rapidly increased cost of settlers & workers, and locked the possibility of building early cottages (monarchy required - I don't know why - if I can create a city, why not a cottage?). No cottages means low commerce and slow science progress. On the other side Earth map is full bonus fields (pigs,cows,etc) providing lots of food. The effect of such rebalancing for my game was that I have early big cities with relatively low commerce. To low to afford for maintenance & unit costs and high level of science. Low science = only few buildings allowed. In vanilla game, the problem is "in what order build", in my game the problem was that I built all available buildings faster than science invented new ones. So I have to build units and disband them (because I couldn't afford them). I was dominating civ and I could do nothing with economy problems. Monarchy technology came to late.
    Suggested solution: Strenghten economy againts food: less bonus fields, cottages available from the beginning.

    5) Small bugs:
    - I noticed fields with more that 100% culture - ex. 133% Russian on the former barbarian tiles.
    - Automated workers doesn't worked for some cities (maybe because of restricted cottage problem) - I have to give them detailed orders.

    Please note that I focused mainly on the problematic issues. There is lot of stuff in this mod that was a positive change from vanilla version, and my overall conclusion is also positive.

    Do you have a short "guide" that informs about all features of this mod? It is hard to dig through all this thread.
     
  6. Civ3_Pan

    Civ3_Pan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Messages:
    4
    Don't get me wrong here...I didn't think my post about a 30-second wait had any seriously negative tones to it. I'm simply trying to help out the mod team here by giving feedback and opinion. Yes, 30 seconds is too long for me to wait between turns and so far this is the only mod I have played that has caused my system any problems. Usually with the vanilla version and mods there is a 2-3 second wait at most (only that long when deep into the modern eras) between turns. So you can imagine how it feels to me with a 30 second wait. I do not want to multi-task or throw socks at cats...sorry. And I purposely never play MP because I don't like waiting on others :)


    With that said, again this isn't a negative post in any way. In fact, I'm back to report that I've tried to find a way to turn off some of the components to this mod to see if that would speed things up and perhaps find out which component it is that might be slowing it down the most. However, I'm not really a modder and not sure how one would even turn off individual mod components or if they would even be the cause of the slowdown effect. At this point, I haven't been able to find a way to speed it up.

    After further testing, the time between turns ranges from 22 seconds at the best to 32 seconds at the worst. Turning off anti-virus and other applications has no effect on this. If you're getting up to a 90-second wait on your system, Mexico, I'd say a 20-30 second wait on my system isn't out of line. I do realize how much code you all have in this mod and that it's not an easy job to go through. However, I'm simply reporting my opinions and feedback after playing the mod in an effort to help you all make it better. I am not trying to come across as that jackass earlier did :)

    Again, I love the mod from what I have seen/read. I just don't have the patience atm to wait 20-30 seconds between turns when I've gotten used to only 2 seconds over the past several years.

    EDIT: OKay, some of my numbers were off. Further testing shows standard Huge map gives me 3-5 seconds between turns (with 3 in the beginning, 5 towards the end) and this mod ranges from 18-32 seconds (all within the first 20 rounds or so...couldn't make it past that). A little better than my original numbers but I'm still too impatient to wait :)
     
  7. Ruben

    Ruben Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    I have been playing civ IV always at emperor level but experience that because of the high aggression level the ai-players are always annoyed with me so I can never trade with them or make alliances simply because they never like me. This is a pity because it makes the diplomacy part less fun and realistic. In order to solve the problem I decided to set the aggression level not at high as is done in the mod but at normal level. Don´t you think it is better to put aggression level at normal level or maybe this mod is not intended to be played at emperor level but at lower levels? Had you guys moderators a specific difficulty level in mind when you created this mod?
     
  8. Smash15195

    Smash15195 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8
    i finished the french translation for civilopedia, units, ressources etc... i fix pbs with é-è-à-ï-î-ô. with which I must sent the modified files ?
     
  9. Serga

    Serga Civilized maniak

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    bug or feature?
    If second than why? :confused:
     
  10. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    London, UK
    An observation: with "Agressive AI" option on, AI actually performs worse. They tend to favor military tech over economic, cultural and scientific development. As a rule, religions are founded and wonders built signifcantly later. And civs that suffer most are actually ones with Agressive leaders, who are supposed to expand militarily, but encounter very strong military opposition from even the most "supposed-to-be-peaceful" civs. So I fail to see the logic behind having the option on by default.
     
  11. Mexico

    Mexico TR senior programmer

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    578
    Location:
    Slovakia, Kosice
    ah..my note was not mean against you..it was mean as just inform how time can vary depend on HW...and about mod components -- i am working on new method how to merge this together, because until nwo, there was only calling method separately for all component -> this lead to 3-5 times doing almost same instructions for each component. ie if unit is moved, there is calling 4 mods component, and each component doing at 70% the same: passing list of unit and searching for appropriate unit - so when i can merge this 4 methods into one, we can aquire som performance improvement. but in this case we need rewrite about 80% of code - and this is not work for one hour - it can take about 2-3 weeks to rewrite whole code (but i will do it, i promise ;))
     
  12. Los Tirano

    Los Tirano God-King

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Driving my enemies before me.
    Im not so sure Russia is unbalanced, being able to expand and create a significant empire isnt necessarily a bad thing. It all depends on what your civ does.

    As spain i was protected from barbarians so i swallowed up french territory early and got rid of them. Germany was kind of cut off by russia but after i slew the greeks and romans germany moved down. Gave athens to persia, since they were such nice allies. Then europe started getting interesting. England took areas that germany could have used, and then england and russia fought a very nasty war. England lost a few cities. Russia expanded, once weakened i came in and cut the russian empire in half (ahh crusaders and conquistadors). Thus ending their imperialistic ambition for the time being. Recovery would take many turns.

    Those roving settler archer bands amuse me, because when they finally settle it can be quite strange. Highlander, you talked about Russia being able to expand so far east that it wasnt funny. Well in this game the mongols have been quiet, but there are a ring of three indian :)crazyeye: ) cities preventing russia from going that way. The Indians beat them to it, and they also have their territories in India that they usually have. Or had, because my army walked through them on the way to Beijing, which is now mine. It had the pyramids.

    So the size of european empires can be quite bizaar, especially when the player influences it.
     
  13. rockinroger

    rockinroger WoC Team Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,312
    Location:
    Overland Park, Kansas
    Hey i for one appreciate all the effort of those who develop mods. My hats go of to you and your team. I think people need to realize this is done for fun. There is no pay involved, so it isnt a job. If someone doesnt like the mod, then make your own, but sharp critcism is not productive.
     
  14. Raize

    Raize Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    162
    Solution: Mercenaries. Make 'em and contract 'em out. I had the same problem as you until I started flooding the market with my excess units as mercenaries.
     
  15. Serga

    Serga Civilized maniak

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    If i see foreign assissin on my territory is there any way to expel it out?
    If no than it Total unRealistic :)
     
  16. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    London, UK
    Been playing quite a few games now, and I think that mercenary upkeep (not hiring costs) should go way down (to 0.2-0.3). It would eliminate the biggest exploit - earning tons of money contracting out. Before the mercenaries came in, I couldn't have ~800 gold in mid-classical (prior to currency!) without ever lowering taxes from 100%! If 1-2 level units would cost 1-2 gold to upkeep (and earn), mercenary income would still be sizeable, but not overwhelming for a human player, and you still couldn't afford to field a big mercenary force for long.

    BTW, anyone knows if AI is able to contract out its troops? We've all seen them hiring and firing, but contracting out?
     
  17. Highlander_

    Highlander_ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Gdansk, Poland
    It is a solution, but I would prefer standard one: cottages available from the beginning.

    I also noticed that delaying cottages is a big handicap for civs "Financial" traits - they lose their biggest bonus (+50% commerce from field - mostly cottages) it the early game.
     
  18. CivFanCCS

    CivFanCCS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NY
    So I have been playing around with the mod a bit..works great here... 3.0gz 1.5 gig ram... crappy video card. anyhow to get to the point i am writing this... when u load up Realism from Start menu... (working with XPHEsp2) once the game is loaded if u alt tab and check priority setting in tm u will find that civilization priority is set to below normal... did some checking and even if u set priority to high or realtime as soon as u start the game... by the time the loading screen appears, the priority is back to below normal.. aft. game loads and u start game. alt tab and change back to normal/high/realtime and it works great... not sure this just me but i highly doubt it... :)
     
  19. Civ3_Pan

    Civ3_Pan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Messages:
    4
    It drops priority on mine as well, but each turn it resets it back to Below Normal again. I don't see any way to force it to stay on Normal.

    Mexico, that sounds like a lot of work you have ahead of you. I'm sure everyone here appreciates the work you all are putting into this thing. I'll keep checking back on the status of this mod. I'm still very interested in playing it.
     
  20. fegguk

    fegguk Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    Hawick (Scotland)
    Great mod even with few bugs

    Played as Germans but no tutonic knights became avaible just standard macemen.

    Most other thing seem to work exept that we live in mostly jewish world, where only a few cling to zaroastianism. Interstingly enough hinduism has not been founded by the renaisance.

    The slave revolts are a pain untill you realise what they are. A frequently asked question post might be a good idea.
     

Share This Page