[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

WarKirby said:
Baaad ideas. Civ IV is too defense oriented already. It takes literally hundreds of years to lay seige to a decently sized city. Making it take even longer is just silly.

The attacker already pays dearly for assaulting cities. Archers get a standard city defense bonus, plus the cultural defense bonus for the culture level of the city, plus the bonus for walls which the AI is likely to build, plus city garrison promotions which AI also has a habit of bestowing upon archers, plus the stack aid bonuses that come from AI's tendancy to put 3-6 units in a city.

Maximum of 5-10%? That is just ludicrous. You already need to out do your enemy about 4 to 1 to take a city, plus the enemy heals faster because they're in a city.

A catapult striking a city walls may not do much. But we're talking about a battery of catapults being fired repeatedly over many years. Around the time of catapults, 1 turn = about 10-20 years. If you had a few catapults and enough ammo, the average city would fall in a week or two, and you think it should take longer.

Make the maximum damage less than 50%. Definately not. If you bombard someone repeatedly, a magic shield does not appear around them once they get injured. Throw rocks at someone repeatedly and, make no mistake, they will die.

The max damage should be all the way at 100%. Now that's realism. Maybe doing less damage to units per turn though. In my curent game, I seem to be killing units with one bombardment.

There should be a downside to mega bombardment though, like destruction of buildings (barracks, library etc.) and severe population drops. Meaning that if you pound a city into dust, you won't benefit from claiming it afterwards.

WarKirby

WarKirky,

I agree with you. In France we had many castles (as in scotland, no ?;) ) and most of the time they fall after a siege of an average of 6 monthes. The longest one i know is four years. It's long but this English Castle was too close to Paris ( around 60 kilometers) ;) .
Destruction of buildings and a loss of one or two pop seems a good idea. I also don't want to lower the strenght of siege units because there are costly and weak if not well protected.

The Frog.
 
Nearing 100th page:goodjob:

"I think macemen should get 10-15%against melee; the macemen are equipped with the armor and have superior weapons compared to classical age.

I figured they(macemen) should have a greater strength against melee
(more thinking against swordsman) swordsman str 6 +25% melee vs. 8 that comes out to 7.5 vs. 8, at least having a 10-15% melee(or have bonuses against swordsman and axemen not pikemen and other melee units) would be a good choice.

I still think catapults are have too much strength, they should have to be protected by other units. presently is is difficult to kill them with an axemen, I think the catapult defense is better represented by having other units on same tile. Vanilla catapults have a str of 5 originally because if it was weaker it would be even more of a sacrifiical unit, but since this new ability from dales combat mod they are stronger and should no longer be a stand alone units and they are no longer meant for physicallly attacking which was there reason for their 5 strength in the first place.

a question of mine.. what is the difference between having 15% str-15% str defense and having 15% city raider? except the first one the 15% added for attack ability is for anywhere where as the city raider is only added for cities. and of course on defense they are the same..

i htink the specilized bonuses are not quite as effective. adding 10% strength is better then ahving 15% specialized strentgh, there should be more reason to specialize, the 5% is not a big enough difference in my opinion when it could only be used against a certain type of unit where as the 10% is universal

a suggestion, i think you guys should reintroduce 25% city defense or 20% from the start. with all these new additions, it should be more necessary to bring seige weapons. i think."

- me a while ago:lol:
 
Spartan117,

I don't remember exactly where i read this thread but you can find it on civfanatics. It explain how combat bonus are used and how is calculated your percentage to win. Some are always added (Combat I to VI), others in special cases for attackers only, others in special cases for defensors only,....
It could be interesting that one of us found this thread. Just to know if it's really usefull to make some changes....

The Frog.
 
Spartan117,

I have found it :D .
You go to Home Page, then War Academy, Military Strategy, Game Mechanics and you read Combat Explain by Arathorn...
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/combat_explained.php

It's not easy to understand (at least for me, it's wrote in english) but it can help you (i hope ;) )

The Frog
 
I agree with WarKirby and Froggie. The game is really too defense oriented, however accurate the ratio's of attackers to defenders. It takes too long to conquer even some of the weaker cities. At heart Civ is too simplistic to accurately reflect the give and take of the battle field IMHO.:)
 
great images that can be used, just liked to throw that in there somewhere....:lol: i mentioned it before but no response or any type of reply.:) It doesnt alter game play, just makes the game more presentable.:mischief:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139865

macemen should get bonus vs. melee

Siege units(not including machine gunner) strength should be weaker.

I think the city raider should be made stronger.

I think specific bonuses also should be increased.

City defenses should be higher, more closer to original.

My reasons are in the previous post. Currently in the promotion system. city defense is quite ineffective(compared to 15% field defense), city raider (compared to 15%attack strength), specialized bonuses(compared to 10% strength)
 
@Houman, i like the idea of Islam converting cities after they are conquered. Perhaps 5 to 10 turns? Seems to accurately portray Islam's conquests. But i would encourage keeping the missionary unit. In the modern era Islam has changed its tune, point of sword to missionary practices. Perhaps learned a bit off christianity about marketing and 'selling' its religion? :lol:
 
I like the era pictures, but the rest would change the game too much. Not doubting the quality of the art or anything, but I've kinda's grown attached to the simplistic icons used by civ.

Just my $0.02

WarKirby
 
I think theres a lot of good ideas on the table, but what we should be thinking of is dealing with the major bugs in the previous patch because adding more stuff adds more bugs 2.
 
WarKirby said:
Baaad ideas. Civ IV is too defense oriented already. It takes literally hundreds of years to lay seige to a decently sized city. Making it take even longer is just silly.

Maximum of 5-10%? That is just ludicrous. You already need to out do your enemy about 4 to 1 to take a city, plus the enemy heals faster because they're in a city.

A catapult striking a city walls may not do much. But we're talking about a battery of catapults being fired repeatedly over many years. Around the time of catapults, 1 turn = about 10-20 years. If you had a few catapults and enough ammo, the average city would fall in a week or two, and you think it should take longer.

Make the maximum damage less than 50%. Definately not. If you bombard someone repeatedly, a magic shield does not appear around them once they get injured. Throw rocks at someone repeatedly and, make no mistake, they will die.

The max damage should be all the way at 100%. Now that's realism. Maybe doing less damage to units per turn though. In my curent game, I seem to be killing units with one bombardment.

There should be a downside to mega bombardment though, like destruction of buildings (barracks, library etc.) and severe population drops. Meaning that if you pound a city into dust, you won't benefit from claiming it afterwards.

WarKirby

I do agree with some of your points, and you do mention a solution that I didn't think of at all... an incentive NOT to use bombardment unless you have to! Thats right... make bombardment to a city have negative consequences such as killing pop units and destroying buildings. I totally agree with your last suggestion.

About max damage: theoretically, it should be possible of course to kill a unit with bombardment alone, especially during the modern ages. However, you also need to take into account that early missile systems like catapults were extremely inaccurate, not to mention the silly mistakes that modern militarys make sometimes. So that chances of doing great damage to units was pretty slim I imagine. So perhaps we need less chance to do damage, but a higher maximum damage available. In the name of "realism".

I really wish I could have the lengthy sieges you are talking about. Mine was a serious disappointment. And it's not just one siege I'm talking about... in the game I'm in, I have something like 30 cities, to everyone else's 5-7. I only just researched Liberalism. I used bombardment to take over at least half of those cities, and when I do use bombardment, I haven't lost a single unit in the siege. That seems grossly overpowered to me. But I do like your negative consequences solution very much to help balance it out. Siege weapons are strong, so they should be used with caution if you want to keep the city.
 
I like the damage to units with bombardment idea- although once a seige unit is attacked by melee- it really shouldn't have a chance at all to survive.
especially trebs and catapults- the men who ran the machine would have run away- brings up a point- the unit should be able to be taken (captured)like in civ/conquests.
 
flexter said:
Houman!!

In The Next Patch Can You Make All Helicopters Carry All Infantry And Most Veichles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For Instance You Cant Load Commandos Or Marrines Onto The Infantry Chopper!


The commando is fixed but Marines have already the flag to be carried by infantry helicopters, are you sure you mean the marine?
 
As for siege victory, I usually pack spare units to grind against city defenses to weaken them. If they have 4 fortified units, I bring 4 throw-away units and 5 useful units (hey, someone has to be at max health to defend next turn :P)

Oh, and for the AI not shelling you back: From personal experience, you can't ranged-bombard your own squares. Much sadness.
 
Houman, Mexico

Are the ICBMs in TR city busters? If so, how can I modify strengt of ICBM? I want strong ICBM but not that strong that one missle can destroy a city of 15+ pop and all wonders.
Please tell me what I must change.

Thanks in advance

p.s. It is a question for the future if you are wondering how I made to bypass CTD and played to modern time;)
 
First post in a while ;)

Anyway, I found this mod a couple days ago, and it is pure excellence.

Unfortunately, though, I am having a lot of trouble with it. I was able to run it fine when I first got it, but then it crashed yesterday while playing(The camera zoomed out, and then crashed after the "microsoft report error" box came up. Since then, it has been acting up - I have trouble getting it to even start up... I usually have to try starting it several times before it works. Then if I get it going, it usually crashes while playing. My current game is saved right at the point before it will crash after pressing Enter... so if I figure out how to, I might be able to send someone the file, because this mod deserves to succeed:goodjob:

P.S. Nice links in your sig, Houman. The state of our country has been making me sick for a while.
 
hey guys,

first, i really look forward for the wrlord version,

hope it wont be long now,

second,
i wanted to know if know this - the stack attack by dale 1.03, doesnt work on multiplayer game,

by wish is the both of your versions of vanilla and wr, will be mp comp'.

keep up the good work.
 
I just downloaded the latest version and the patch. Installed the MOD and then installed the patch. Started CivIV and loaded the MOD and it restarted and almost got finished installing and I got a window error message. This is all I am able to cut and past of the message.

AppName: civilization4.exe AppVer: 1.6.1.1841 ModName: cvgamecoredll.dll
ModVer: 0.0.0.0 Offset: 00155a8a

I tried to reinstall the MOD and patch and got the same message. Rebooted the computer and it still will not load.

Any ideas as to why I can not load the MOD?
 
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