[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

[bovinespy]

Oh i didnt knew that horses came over from europe.
If cows came from europe aswell then this is a flaw as i have 2 sources of them in north america

Well, I haven't really checked on the North American section of the map yet in my current game (and I can't right now 'cause I'm at work), but if there are 2 Cows in NA, that does sound like an error/oversight.

 

[Mexico]

Oh i didnt knew that horses came over from europe.
If cows came from europe aswell then this is a flaw as i have 2 sources of them in north america

about horses: and no horses is reason, why american cavalry has no horses as requirment, but is +20% expensive (this reflect "importing cost of horse from old world")

 

[Mexico]

A Balancing recommendation about Slave revolts:

They appear way to often. Sometimes 3 revolts in 3 turns in the same city. When you slay those rebels it should be a lesson for all to see and nobody would rebel again for a certain time. Also there should be some kind of rebel unit for each era as it doesnt makes sense that a mob of slaves turn into highly trained and equiped soldiers that are even with the regular military
Currently i have alot of 'slave' crusaders revolting my towns

this is first release of this component (was writen directly for this mod from scratch), so we know, that this need some adjustment/balancing/... i am collecting all your notes and want to rewrite this is future

 

[Nightmare01]

about horses: and no horses is reason, why american cavalry has no horses as requirment, but is +20% expensive (this reflect "importing cost of horse from old world")

hmmm the slogan of this mod is 'rewrite the history of the world'

So if the americans bugger up with all the europeans they can still build cavalry because they import it from the 'old world' (which never existed as the americans started in the ancient age and never split up from british empire) ?
I know you want to make it realistic but do we now replay the world history or do we rewrite it new ?
I suggest that the american player has to get good diplomatic connections to europe to gather horses by trade from other civs to build mounted units. Not to mention random maps where the world looks totally different.

just my 2 cents

 

[Nightravn]

Lots of good feed back and questions here.....

Lets start with Bovines favorite subject.... COWS.. .... specifically the ones in North America. We left out Horses, and Pigs from the new world on purpose as like it was stated they really didn't appear there naturally but came over with the Europeans and we want to promote Trading. The Cows are representative of other Bovine animals specifically the Great American Bison which were plentiful until those same Europeans got hungry. Allot of the animal resources are just like those in that they are representative for other types that is why there are deer in Africa and S. America.

@Nightmare - We don't think a Civ should be dependent on another to build it's UU, as there is a good chance no European Civ would trade those to you but we still want to make the resource placement kinda indicative of how they are naturally appearing in the World with of course keeping an eye out for balance and fun strategic gameplay.

The "Rewrite the History of the World" is symbolic of the whole CIV game itself and we encourage players to take those Civ that have died out centuries ago to Rise up and Rule the World.

@Prussia - yes we are aware of the slow down of the game with this Mod and I am happy to say that it has been fix and with the new patch the games runs great.

To address the issue with people having trouble with their economy.......

Well I have tested countless test games all on Noble I have yet to really find this a problem. Though as Mexico stated we have moved up cottages to masonry but have also increased the times of development as well to compensate for that and for the length of the game itself. I think one reason I do pretty well is that I have been playing with Civ's that start on the Coast as most of them do and the first tech I research is fishing as this allows we to grow my cities while bypassing the other worker required food techs and it helps immensely with commerce. I am a natural warmonger so I usually get BW next and then I either go for the Alphabet or for a Religion. An early Religion can do wonders for your economy. Also go out an steal your neighbors worker so you won't have to make one yourself. I don't make a worker until I time one to come out with BW and I usually only produce one settler for my quick second city (if in Europe more if elsewhere) and let the other CIV's give me theirs.

Don't be afraid of having your Research % drop to 50% as I would rather have 5 cities producing 100 breaks at 50% than 3 cities producing 70 breakers at 80%. Once you get to currency you percentage will come up. Though you should not be expanding/making units so much that you bankrupt yourself.

 

[bovinespy]

Lots of good feed back and questions here.....

Lets start with Bovines favorite subject.... COWS.. .... specifically the ones in North America. We left out Horses, and Pigs from the new world on purpose as like it was stated they really didn't appear there naturally but came over with the Europeans and we want to promote Trading. The Cows are representative of other Bovine animals specifically the Great American Bison which were plentiful until those same Europeans got hungry. Allot of the animal resources are just like those in that they are representative for other types that is why there are deer in Africa and S. America.

Hi Nightravn. That actually makes perfect sense (about the bisons). Sorry But thinking about substitute animals, then maybe the Incas should get a few Cow spots to represent llamas?

As far as resource placements, I'm getting some decent maps of varying usefulness (though you have to pay big $ for detailed resource maps), so hopefully next week I'll take a stab at it.

One last thing - I'm leaving work in about 3 hours. Do you have any idea if Houman will be uplinking the latest patch by then? (I ask because I only have broadband at my Monday-Friday job).

 

[Mexico]

One last thing - I'm leaving work in about 3 hours. Do you have any idea if Houman will be uplinking the latest patch by then? (I ask because I only have broadband at my Monday-Friday job).

i'm sorry, but i don't have time for finishing some improvements in merc code, so patch will be released during weekend (i think sunday is more realistic that saturday)

 

[ImperialBritain]

Looks like I'll have to try and find someone to create some late Redcoats for you to put in. I have the idea that someone could skin the riflemen to look like the late Imperial Redcoats, I'll make some equirys and some requests to see if anyone will do it. I'll post when I get someone to do it.

 

[bovinespy]

i'm sorry, but i don't have time for finishing some improvements in merc code, so patch will be released during weekend (i think sunday is more realistic that saturday)

Hi Mexico. Fair enough - I'll just keep going with my current game then. If I finish early, I'll try a quick random map start.

 

[Zoo7]

I would like to take the opportunity to add my voice to the chorus of grateful users of Total Realism. Really great job, guys. Kudos!

Prompted by earlier posts concerning the late availability of cottage building, I would like to add that this is one of the main selling points of this mod, in my opinion. It forces the player to be much more careful and deliberate in the early phase of the game. When you compare Civ4 to Civ3, one of the most striking differences is the economic draught that hits you if you expand too fast in the beginning. Total Realism enhances this difference. I would hate to see this changed.

That comment may make it obvious that I don't use the mercenary options. From the comments I have read, it is hopelessly unbalanced, giving a source of income way out of proportion. If you need hints on how to balance this income, maybe you could look at the amount of money a city can produce when converting production to cash. Producing troops and hiring them out should not make a lot more income than this, I think.

I would also agree with some previous posts that the Assassin unit is overpowered. The tech stealing is not so bad - it allows you to catch up if you're behind in the tech race, but if you're in that unfortunate position, I think the extra help is appropriate But the ability to cause civil disorder is too much. Not only can you wreck the economy of opponents, but using the assassins to induce civil disorder in border cities of an opponent allows you to move your units right up to the city gates before the war declaration. The civil disorder will also remove the defense bonus of the city, allowing your siege units to concentrate on causing collateral damage to the defenders. Used this way, the assassins enable the player to cause a devastating first strike, taking out many or all of the border cities, along with their defending units, with little or no casualties. Leaving an opponent that may be effectively broken after the initial turn of war.

I don't think this use of the assassin unit as a key component of a blitz strategy was intended. And obviously, the AI is not equipped to use it in this way. Thank God! Which brings me to the matter of defending against assassins. Which seems nearly impossible. One defending assassin does not really decrease the success chance that much, and adding more doesn't produce a linear increase of the defense. And besides, your capitol will be busy enough producing one assassin for each of your cities, in addition to those you use offensively. I like the suggestion to enable attacking assassins without declaration of war. I think that would neatly take care of the defense issue. As for the overpowered offensive capabilities, I am not sure what to do. Perhaps reduce the ability to cause civil disorder, or add a cost to activate that ability...

Last comment about assassins: I suspect there may be a bug in the activation code. In my current game I experience a lot more failures than expected against a certain opponent (Chinese, NOT police state). The results seem consistent with what I'd expect IF he had police state... But I've checked that several times, he doesn't... By the way, it would also be nice if the tech stealing code reported if there were no techs to steal.

Further feedback:

I like the stack aid. This is a real nice enhancement of tactical play. There are some doubts in my mind though... Like, if a unit in a stack attacks a unit that is not in a neighbouring plot (ie. using roads or having 2+ movement points), will it retain the stack bonus? I seem to lose a lot of battles that I should have 90% or better chances of winning, according to the odds displayed when I right-click on the target... this might be explained by the unit losing the stack bonus immediately after leaving the stack. I think it would be better if the stack bonus was only updated during the turn calculation. That would also prevent certain exploits, like moving a unit (could be a leader) from stack to stack, allowing the stacked units to take advantage of the bonus in their attacks, before the leader/unit moves on to the next stack. Is that really an exploit? Well, it feels like it

All in all I love this mod pack. I wouldn't want to live without it. Keep up the good work

 

[Serga]

@Zoo7

Wow, you think like me
Completely concordant with you.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

@Zoo7

My thoughts too. I agree with every point you make.

And, to be an ass again, some more naming issues: phalanx to hoplite. Phalanx is a name of formation, that many nations (Egyptians, Persians, even early Romans) have used after it was spread by Alexander (and Macedonian Phalanx, that Alexander used, unlike Greek one, was really made of pikemen!). Hoplites are what is really unique to Bronze Age Greece. Maybe even Spartan Hoplites specifically. And one more - Greek Archer to Toxotis, just seems less generic. And vice versa - Hypaspists are really quite a unique unit, for Alexander and Successor States; maybe that name should left for Greece alone, and all the rest could use Shortswordsman or Early Swordsman or Bronze Swordsman or such. Unlike, for example, Cataphracts, that were employed by a number of nations (even though Aztec Cataphtract does sound a bit odd). And Companion Cavalry could be renamed to Hetairoi.

 

[Nightravn]

@Walter Hawkwood - I like your take on the naming issues and would like to ask you to get the whole list together and post in the feature tracking on sourceforge as this way they won't get lost in the forums.

@Zoo - Thanks you for you comments and I agree that the assassin can be use more effectively by human players so it might be abit unbalanced. Though I have had the AI send some to some of my top producing cities to slow me down so they can still be a little tricky with them.

As for them being use in a blitzkrieg type fashion well unless you make lots of them and have them strike all the target civs cities at once after the declare war by attacking those border cities you wont be able to use them against that Civ and more. I usually send them in to some of the inner cities to kill the culture for after taking the front ones I can now move to take those inner cities faster.

I am not sure what is in order to make them more balanced but we shall try. I am thinking that until we can get it so that assassin can attack other assassin, we should increase the defending ability of the assassin so that if one assassin is in the city then the attacking assassin as very little chance of succeeding and we are looking into making them a national restricted unit so that should help as well.

Not sure on the Stack Aid issue and will have to look at it further in my currents tests.

@ImperialBritain - Yeah we use other peoples units as none of us are Graphic Artists. So when you get a good one let us know. That goes for anyone else who want certain units in.

 

[Prussia]

Is there anyway to make the game loading quicker, and the time in between turns slower?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Is there anyway to make the game loading quicker, and the time in between turns slower?

Play random maps, not Earth. They are way quicker. If you already play random, try playing smaller maps.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

@Walter Hawkwood - I like your take on the naming issues and would like to ask you to get the whole list together and post in the feature tracking on sourceforge as this way they won't get lost in the forums.

Phew! Completed and added some new ones.

 

[Nightmare01]

@Zoo - Thanks you for you comments and I agree that the assassin can be use more effectively by human players so it might be abit unbalanced. Though I have had the AI send some to some of my top producing cities to slow me down so they can still be a little tricky with them.

As for them being use in a blitzkrieg type fashion well unless you make lots of them and have them strike all the target civs cities at once after the declare war by attacking those border cities you wont be able to use them against that Civ and more. I usually send them in to some of the inner cities to kill the culture for after taking the front ones I can now move to take those inner cities faster.

I am not sure what is in order to make them more balanced but we shall try. I am thinking that until we can get it so that assassin can attack other assassin, we should increase the defending ability of the assassin so that if one assassin is in the city then the attacking assassin as very little chance of succeeding and we are looking into making them a national restricted unit so that should help as well.

Actual the AI had send an assassin into my capital city wich caused disorder for 5 turns. Probably this was just random but exactly to that time i was building an important great wonder
As revenge i had send three assassins into his cities. All of them failed in thier mission. Are these assassin really that powerfull ?
Also it would be good to remove any nationality from these hidden special units. Or does spies now wear thier nationality colours

 

[Cube4]

I think the immigration mod should be added.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4149559

I can't play right now cuz i'm not home, and my sisters computer sucks big time, it doesn't even meet 1/3 of the system requirements.

I think that you should focus on adding future era technologies and units, If I remember correctly, the mod has added 300 years and is supposed to end in 2300 AD.

 

[crismac]

Actual the AI had send an assassin into my capital city wich caused disorder for 5 turns. Probably this was just random but exactly to that time i was building an important great wonder
As revenge i had send three assassins into his cities. All of them failed in thier mission. Are these assassin really that powerfull?

For me they are really powerful.AI sent an assassin into one of my cities caused 10 turns of disorder.So I sent 7 assassins to one of his cities size 22,when they attacked I knocked his city size down 12 points,stole 5,000 science research for a tech I can't remember witch one,and caused 55 turns of disorder .So I say they are very powerful,maybe to much so.I also have stopped an assassination attempt by having them stay in my cities .

 

[Spartan117]

@bovine
so you play civ while you work

@realism member people

Privateers are really good since they are able to bring military units and settlers across enemy borders

except they upgrade to ship of the line?!?! once i research , i think chemistry, then i can no longer build privateers.
there is no modern replacement for the privateer and i find myself building privateers and still using them in modern era... by the way i dont think privateer's ability is overpowered as it only applies to ocean tiles...and the ai knows how to use it for the most part..

i thought spys should be actualy use to steal technology and not assassins..i thought assassins would be able to assassinate leaders of cities...are the spys in the realism mod able to steal tech?...they should be the units to obtain this ability if they do not have it

how effective the assassin is in causing chaos, completing mission, should be determined on whether there are spys or assassins in the area and on how many units are in the tile, isnt this somewhat similar to spy already in the game?. this would stop the need of assassin spamming to protect cites
if assassin in caught it has negative effects on diplomacy to either that nation or all other nations as well...you attempting to assassinate leader..Oh My God!?!?

maybe for the mercenaries mod part, maybe there should be unique mercenary units for every era....so basically an example there is a unique mercenary horse archer and cataphract...etc..and they should have specific bonuses

the mercenaries units can be stronger during time periods where they were used more in(modern times, musket era times, etc)... and weaker in eras where they werent as effective(WWII era)

by the way do mercenaries need to have individual names? they should be called mercenary or maybe after a mercanery company that provides mercenaries aka real life... example: the mercenary company that provided mercs to angola and sierra leone

another cool idea hiring mercs has negative effects on relations like real world or a UN option that would stop the hiring of mercs, but then again there should be alot more to the UN anyway