[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

Hey, guys!

I've just finished my first game with the 2.0.1 version and something strange came along: I couldn't build any ICBMs. My civ had uranium and most of the cities had silos and nuclear powerplants. Also, the Manhatan project had been completed. I downloaded and took a look at the new patch log
(2.0.2), but none of this is mentioned. Can anyone help me? I apologize if this has been answered previously on this thread. Thank you.
 
Houman said:
Good morning,

Eeverything is going down in my private life - and now this; a false alarm caused by the lovely Symantic Antivirus program that has now crushed our Total Realism community who would think we are some Trojan makers and want to harm them. :sad:

Please have a look on this here:
http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Main_Page

This is the script we use to make the installer for the mod.

Now click on this link under the recent news to read for yourself the false alarm is caused by Norton Anti Virus and NSIS installer script.


Click on it and read it!

THERE is NO trojan inside the script. :sad: Check the files with any McAfee or else Anti-Virus program beside the Norton and you will see!!!

P.S. Patch 2.0.2 released! Main page - download

Regards
Houman
When it was first posted, I wrote something along the lines that Norton was basically expensive bloatware that is always asking for money for a new upgrade or extension. And also how difficult it is to remove from a hard drive once installed. I use free anti-virus, anti-spam, free worm and trojan detectors; and lastly free firewall software. They catch most (if not all) of the bugs that keep the anti-virus companies in business without constant alarmist warnings that your computer is infected.
 
Ankenaton said:
When it was first posted, I wrote something along the lines that Norton was basically expensive bloatware that is always asking for money for a new upgrade or extension. And also how difficult it is to remove from a hard drive once installed. I use free anti-virus, anti-spam, free worm and trojan detectors; and lastly free firewall software. They catch most (if not all) of the bugs that keep the anti-virus companies in business without constant alarmist warnings that your computer is infected.

All I can say is :agree: 100%.I also use free anti-virus that comes with my internet service and never had a problem :)
 
4 - Do not sleep. Play through your normal sleep time, confuse your body clock so you can get by with eight hours sleep every two to three days.

WARNING side-effects may include zombification. :drool:


So ive launched a serious invasion of China by sea, destroyed most of their large army in one turn and taken four cities. The people of Beijing are unsurprisingly a little perturbed with me. So im looking at why they despise their new benevolent ruler and of course they want to join the motherland, its crowded, war is bad etc etc. But one negative point is because, and i quote "AAAARRGHHH".

:dubious:
 
Can someone confirm that Zoro+Spiral Minaret+State Religion=Zoro = No additional extra income for you?
 
darkedone02 said:
AVG, Spybot, and Windows Defenders FTW!!!!!

Edit: Norton Anti-Virus sucks, it blame everything as a virus...
Could not have said better myself. Love your signature line. While I may not put the kids up for adoption (they have been confined to their rooms LOL), but getting rid of the other half is definitely a consideration :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Los Tirano said:
4 - Do not sleep. Play through your normal sleep time, confuse your body clock so you can get by with eight hours sleep every two to three days.

WARNING side-effects may include zombification. :drool:


So ive launched a serious invasion of China by sea, destroyed most of their large army in one turn and taken four cities. The people of Beijing are unsurprisingly a little perturbed with me. So im looking at why they despise their new benevolent ruler and of course they want to join the motherland, its crowded, war is bad etc etc. But one negative point is because, and i quote "AAAARRGHHH".

:dubious:
Put a tenth of the population to slavery or if they continue in their negative behavior a good old fashioned decimation might work wonders :lol: :lol: It worked wonders for the Romans. Guess that is the reason why they did not have too many deserters, shirkers and/or cowards. It must be some motivation knowing that if you turned and ran thus causing a stampede to the rear; the best you could hope for would be for the centurions to pick out every tenth man and have him executed. Best to stand and fight, huh.
 
First off, love the mod....still a little slow on the load times and between turns(which shouldn't be a problem on my monster rig). Still can't stop playing it despite the time involved.

To my point, is anyone having problems with some countries flags showing up as pure black or white? I didn't have the problem with 2.0, then patched to 2.01 and ALL countries were blank black or white, now with 2.02 some nations still have the problem. From my memory, Germany is black, Greek is white. There are more, I just can't remember. Any ideas on the problem or anyone else having this occur as well? Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work, AWESOME mod.

Happy 4th to all my American brethren! May you drink massive quantities of libations and try to not blow off your fingers today.

:cool:
 
Well I've played it almost all the way through, still have to pass through the modern age so the inspection is not through. But I've found enough to say as it is.

In any case, before I begin my rain of criticism I'd like to state that this is an excellent mod with an impressive array of new features and a truly new feeling to the game. It has brought the game closer to a certain realism feeling but there is still much, much to be done. So I've split my notes into 3 categories each with its subdivisions. I'll take my time to warn that this will be a very long post and I would advise to most to simply skim through the text and read only the titles and look in depth only at the things they find interesting.

I) Resources - This has been approached wrong from my point of view by the producers of Civ IV and was not corrected by Total Realism crew, the error was more of amplified by them.

1) Animal resources - I really don't understand why after hunting elephants and game for centuries you don't lose the resource, it would be logical to lose such a resource. And of course game and fur could reappear nearby in an undeveloped sector. The obvious result should be something like Europe where there are very little free animals and there are no industrial developments of them as a resource.

Also regarding pigs and horses I think it would be obvious to not set this as a resource, or at least not in this way. Pigs for example are very resilient animals and live in a lot of places, from China to Europe, and from North America to South America. And an interesting case is with horses that have been brought from Europe to America and now are pretty common there. So I propose a solution, which you could build horse herds or such, if you receive the horse resource from another civ. Of course these pig farms and horse herds should only be built on specific terrains, grasslands and plains.

2) Plant resources - To begin with I don't understand why the lemon resource produces happiness.
But to return to the more pressing issue, potatoes & corn are both plants that have an extended habitat they are now found all over Europe and potatoes are known to have saved Europe from starvation several times. It is illogical to say that these can only be found in America. I propose that potato and corn plantations can be built as soon as trade with American civs begins. A similar case is with wheat and other resources.
Same tactic should be applied to other exotic resources such as spice, cotton, silk, however with more severe restrictions. For example a rice plantation should require a wet environment and therefore can only be built in specific regions such as China and Japan.

3) Human made resources - I found this a silly concept and could not understand why it was introduced, books, hit movies & the likes were never government controlled. They were sometimes banned but the government never had the ability to offer any such resource in exchange for something else. And the wonders that provide these bonuses are rather silly as in real history they had nothing to do with the government. Another arrangement can be found though, for example an uncontrolled appearance and various effects that may differ to the governments objective (e.g. a drive towards freedom or religious fanatism) and therefore the government may create a national ban that would cost significantly.

4) Material resources - The only thing that bothered me regarding these is the fact that they do not disappear if they are exploited. The obvious case is yet again Europe where the high exploitation of natural resources has led to massive importations of these resources.

5) Resource supply – This has been approached wrong ever since the first civ. Why do you need the same amount of resource to supply a nation with 1 city and to supply one with 20 cities? Supply of resource should be linked strongly with the size of the civilization being supplied.

II) Wrong game concepts

1) Uranium ammunition - When I first saw this I went nuts, I thought I had the wrong mod. How can you put uranium ammunition and claim to be Total Realism. I really can't understand this concept and I myself have studied in my own time nuclear technology, out of curiosity. But let's analyze this in a fair manner, there are 2 possible uses for uranium ammunition: first in order to irradiate the target and second to create a minor nuclear explosion with truly devastating effects.
The first case is just plain stupid, uranium has a very long half-life and the amount of radiation is not significant enough in short exposures and from such small portions. To be frank if the bullet is quickly removed the patient doesn't really suffer any serious effects.
The second case presents a number of technical difficulties, first a nuclear bomb detonates long before impact, how does a bullet know when to explode?
A proper analysis of the distance to the target and whether or not this is valid would take a powerful computer not sizeable to the small bullet.
Also I won't mention the political and economic complication with the theoretical usage of such ammunition. This is one of the things that I wish was quickly removed.

2) Cold fusion - Yet again for some reason the Total Realism crew has ventured into dangerous territory. We have no knowledge on how such a thing could be achieved why include it in a Total realism mod?

3) Crazy wonders - a couple of wonders caught my attention so let’s take an in depth look. The fish market was on of them, I don’t understand why this wonder is the only provider in the whole world of tuna fish. What you can’t fish it anywhere else?
Or the Eiriki Rade oil platform, if it’s such a huge bonus what’s stopping me from building a similar platform in every city. And last but not least the space elevator. Sure this has some scientific backing but it also has a lot of scientific issues. First we don’t have the materials to build it, second we don’t have the materials to build it and third we don’t have the materials to build it.

4) Terraformation – yet another futuristic concept that should never have managed to slip through. How could it be possible to either get enough earth to make a strip of water of a couple of thousand square km into land or how would you get rid of enough land to turn a couple of hills into coastal waters. If you truly want this feature you should have a place to either put or take the earth from. For example in order to turn a section of water into land you would turn a section of hills into grasslands. Personally I would rather see this feature gone

5) Demo troops – A silly little thing, when have you seen the government send in a couple of troops and level a city. It is unheard of in history. But you do hear of cities being abandoned or pillaged to the ground by a king.

6) Impassible peaks – Sure I agree that most troops shouldn’t be able to go over mountains, but in modern days we can go over most things with advanced engineering. But even if you don’t want that we have alpine troops equipped with skies which have the specific job of moving over these large obstacles.

7) Electricity – Yet again, it takes 1 power plant to supply a small city but it takes several to supply a city the size of New York. And in the same area there is the issue of how much energy supply a certain power plant offers. Nuclear for example creates the most power while a study shows that you would have to cover the whole planet in solar panels to power up a city the size of New York. Because of the issue presented I bid that solar power plants either be taken out of the game or be viable only for cities smaller then 6.

III) Military

1) Naval issues – Ships heal at sea? How’s that work, the sailors get out and patch the ship up with tape and there ya go, it’s as good as new.
Also related to this is the promotion for heal.

2) Generals – Why wasn’t this concept enhanced. All that generals do is offer 10% strength boost and heal boost. Although I can’t understand how a general helps his troops heal faster. In any case I find it logical that some generals be better then others and that some offer different advantages then others. A good general should be able to turn the tides of a great battle.

3) Spies – Same problem as with the general issue. Spy abilities and level should differ to his experience on the field.

4) Bombardment & artillery – The changes done from civ 3 are no improvement at all especially the approach on artillery. When in history have you hear of a battle between an artillery unit and infantry units. The main advantage of artillery is that it does not need to approach in order to fire. Of course it needs accurate readings in order to be effective. That is why I propose the passive bonus they provide be greatly increased, e.g. excellent cover fire. Plus why can’t ships provide a bonus to land units, naval bombardment.

I don’t expect most of these to be integrated but if only 1-2 two of my specifications get through I’ll be a happy man. I do insist however on the uranium ammunition issue and the futuristic concepts that where present. One more thing though I’d like to see the civilopedia working properly and depicting the correct game concepts and such. I’m also willing to offer assistance in many of these. If you’re interested my email address is nalaotari@yahoo.com .

Thx,
Radu.
 
I forgot one of the most important issues: population.
This thing works correctly up until the industrial ages. In civ there is no population boom as it happened in history. You have cities rising up to around 20-23 and they stagnate there. Meaning they have only around 3-4 specialists. This is not a very logical aspect as in modern society the people that work in the city, specialists, represent over 50% of the population. In civilized countries up to 60%. What the game lacks is the bonuses of the technological advances of the 20th century. Statistics show that an american farmer produces enough food for around 25 people. Do the math.

Kind regards,
Radu.
 
I looked at the spanish units and noticed there weren't very many, I think you have a spanish tercio to replace musketman, as the tercio was the most feared unit of its age
 
Zorag, I think Uranium Ammo refers to the often used depleted uranium shells that find their way into a wide variety of armaments including, but not limited to, apache helicopter gatling guns, tank shells, and sniper rifle bullets.
 
I noticed Spain doesnt have a great number of units, but enough. At least it has more than Rome. Bigmeat could you provide a link on the terico, never heard of them.

I personally wonder if Zorag is a fan of civ, few of the reforms sound good, and involve changing the game a little too much. Uranium ammunition is used for its anti-vehicle properties as i understand it.

@Houman, my concern is with crusaders. The mujahid only require their religion and a temple whereas crusaders require the religion and a cathedral, which is very expensive and time consuming to build. This prevents a simulation of the crusades for me, because not enough crusaders can be built. Because of the requirements crusaders cannot be built in every city which isnt correct. Pope Urban II call to all Christians to retake the holy land attracted crusaders from all of christendom. Huge numbers adopted the cross as their symbol and the christian military orders, the knights which the unit reflects, came into being. A christian monastery would better reflect the establishment of the crusader orders, than a cathedral which is all about display. This would better facilitate the crusades and lead to a large number of crusaders. It also balances with the mujahid. I hope i have been convincing, and i sincerely hope you change it. I've been avoiding crusaders latley because they have become too much trouble, and it doesnt seem accurate.
 
Well not only can I get this damn mod to work but if ****ed up my unmodded game also. Never again will I add this crap.
 
Well not only can I get this damn mod to work but if ****ed up my unmodded game also. Never again will I add this crap.

Not necessary to be so rude.
I have a deep respect for all the persons trying to create a new MOD.
THEY DESERVE our respect.
Think about it.
Hmmm?

Wait for a new patch, or be nice and use another MOD.
Modders are at school here, gaining more and more experience even if they failed to fix problems immediately.
;)
 
Los Tirano: You did see patch 2.02, right?

Zorag, a lot of the things you mention are pretty fundamental civ concepts. The game isn't realistic, and shouldn't be assumed to be, the goal of any game should be to be fun. There are a few things that you mention that do make sense for Civilization.

On resources, Civ 3 had resources that could be depleted, and then they'd pop up somewhere else. This was just very annoying, and didn't make the game fun at all. I'm glad they don't do that anymore.

You're right about the domesticated animals spreading and being raised in more places than they are originally found, but they don't really spread everywhere, just most places. Japan imports a lot of farm products like beef for obvious reasons. Perhaps it would be possible to have a technology like "domestication" which has further basic resources pop up. Place it in the middle of the tech tree somewhere, and more cows, pigs, sheep etc appear on the world map in addition to those already there.

Also related is more advanced units like Calvary should not need horses to build, as it should be assumed that they're being breeded everywhere.

As for fusion, the cold fusion wonder doesn't really hurt anything, it's "advanced" technology, so we don't need to know how it works. Dropping the "cold" part might make it seem more plausible though.

Also I think that the Fusion technology at the end should eliminate the chance that nuclear reactors will melt down. Researching Fusion will make them safe.

As for the white flags issues. I have a graphics card which needs the white flag fix. And as of version 2.01, many of the flags are fine, but some are not. Some are pretty dark. The french flag isn't right either, it's black, yellow, red stripped, vertically.

I have a TON of other bug reports and ideas for this mod that I'm still writing up, and will post soon. In general the mod's early game is pretty well done, but the balance more and more off towards the end of the game.

Cham
 
Some good points but some very skewed ones (in my opinion) also.

Having been in military units that use depleted uranium ammunition....This is not used for a nuclear explosion or to irradiate the target. ie the "DEPLETED" part of the description. It is used for the density of the uranium. It is heavier than lead, not as malleable, and punches quite a hole in armored vehicles. The fact that is a slightly radioactive material is more a hindrance than a positive for the people using it.

Comments on artillery and naval bombardment are right on target but are inherent to CIV 4, not this mod. If someone with some programing skills could fix these issues.....I would be very happy.

There is no perfect way to handle resources and Houman and company have done a better job than any others with these.

The issue with power plants is also a problem with all civ versions.

Future technologies are just that...FUTURE. Some day we will have fusion power and some day when we improve our use of carbon nanotubes the space elevator will be built as it will be the most efficient way to move material and people to earth orbit. Just think, an electric elevator to geosynchronous orbit.
No more shuttle explosions or fuel tank foam, etc to worry about.

Even thought there are problems still, this is easily the best mod in production.

Everyone else who is b****ing so much about it.....Go write you own mod if you wnat and give these guys a break. They are not getting paid to make the game better for you.

Keep it going Houman and crew....Most of us appreciate your efforts.:goodjob:
 
I want to install 2.0.2 patch But I dont know where to put it . Also great mod playing this mod has actullay made me a better player and its a heck of a alot of fun thanks and good job
 
@Therapist Thanks for this information. I know how to solve this issue now. It seems we have three kind of Video cards out there:

Old: They require White Flag patch, it is not perfect but better than nothing and we cannot really test it since we do not have these kind of old hardware.

Medium Old: I suppose this is where your video card and "Sovietof17" fall in. The new flags do not work for you either perfectly, since they were changed a bit in the 2.0.1 as well.

Modern cards: No problem with the normal flags.

We will use the old new flags from 2.0.0 in the repository and make another patch for you guys with medium old video cards. That should do it.

@Zorag

They are some good suggestions in there. We will se what we can do. However keep in mind, that the more resources you make in the game, the more health and happiness you get. You grow without any need for religion, entertaintment etc. This will make the game odd. AND import/export will suffer even more. The whole concept of Civ is not very realistic, one oil resource is enough to produce 1000 tanks, gunships etc. Changing the absolute core of the game might make Civ a more difficult game, not neccessarily fun game. We have to make as much realistic as possible without braking the physics of the game. Regarding Uranium shells, as already explained by other members, these are meant to be the uranium hardened Shell ammunition that is being used by USA in the last two Persian Gulf wars. The uranium makes the shell just harder. The down side is the poisoning of civilians that play with the remainings and wrecks as well as US Soldiers who were in close contact with that ammunition and are now suffering from the Gulf-Syndrom.

Regarding the possible future techs, it would be odd excluding Terraforming or Cold Fusion just because we haven't yet made them possible. The theory is there and seems to be possible. What we need is more advanced hardware and ideas to make them happen. In this sense shall we exclude the space race because we are not there yet in 21 centry? ;)

Regadring further assistance, we have to see and distribute the plans in the next days, who is doing what and see where we still have deficits. I will come back to you. Thanks.

@bigmeat The Romans are suffering the most from not having enough UU units. But yeah we will be adding more Units in the 2.1.0. Hopefully we can find more spanish units.

@Los Tirano
The Catherdral/Crusader issue was indeed a misconception. In Patch 2.0.2 is this already solved. Crusaders only need a Temple in order to be built.

@Chamrin
It is actually a good idea to remove horses for Cavalry in general to imply the domistication of the horse resource, if no horse is in there. Right now the USCavalry doesn't require horses but is more expensive.

@Donkey Puncher
You don't need to put the 2.0.2 patch anywhere special. Just double click and install it, it will find your mod path automatically.

Regards
Houman
 
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