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[MODCOMP] "1492: Codex"

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Mods and Files' started by KJ Jansson, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. KJ Jansson

    KJ Jansson Chieftain

    Joined:
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    [MODCOMP] "1492: Codex"

    The discussion started by Commander Bello in the German Colonization forum and continued in Civfanatics concerned the Productivity and Liberty Bells encouraged me to finish at least my own solution of this problem. Proposed here variant is a part of my "1492: Global Colonization" mod that now under development. However, I decides to extract all parts related to "Productivity" and "Liberty Bells" and present them as a separate MODCOMP.

    I added a new yield "Codex"



    Main parameters of Elder Statesman are changed. Now Elder Statesman produces Codex points.



    Disloyal Colonist is a new unit that will produce "Liberty Bells". Here Disloyal Colonist as a unit:



    As you see Disloyal Colonist cannot produce "Codex", he has also some changes in City and Field goods production.

    Disloyal Colonist as a Profession. The difference between Free Colonist and Disloyal Colonist is mentioned in the Strategy section:



    As you see, Disloyal Colonist can work on Market. Thus, Market is a first building where you can "produce" Liberty Bells.



    Let's see how a new model is working.

    As usually we have a ship with two units. Unload one unit and establish our first colony in New World, then we start to build Market.



    The second unit we unload on other tile and establish the second colony. On next turn we have Event 1.



    Your King is happy that you have two colonies in New World and he sending his King's Statesman as a ruler in one of colonies. King's Statesman arrives in your first city and we send him in Townhall.

    Please, check output of each units on the city screen. Now both Free Colonist (fishing) and Elder Statesman (administration) have the STARTING output: Free Colonist +4 Food, Elder Statesman +4 Codex.



    However, on next turn we see some changes. Output for all units started to grow due to the better administration.



    As long as somebody is working in Townhall (that is generates Codex points) the productivity of all units is growing. On turn 3 we have:



    However, now let's remove our Elder Statesman from Townhall and give him a Lumberjack profession. Please, note his output at this moment (+8% Wood from Better Organization)



    After 3 turns his output changed from +8% up to +2%. Why? Because nobody is working in Townhall and thus, nobody is responsible for the Better Organization.



    Quite soon the productivity of our unit returns to the starting level.



    Such output productivity remains the same if nobody is working in Townhall or on Market.

    However, we constructed our first Market in one of our settlements. Here we have Event 2: Market.



    We received some money from our Market and a new unit "Disloyal Colonist" as a Stranger.



    Let's choose profession for our stranger. He will work as Disloyal Colonist on Market.



    Thus, turn 0, cityscreen. Revolution 0%, all units have starting output.



    After 3 turns we see some changes. Now Revolution 2%, but output of Free Colonist is only 3.84 instead 4 Food. These changes are result of "Liberty Bells" generation process. Nobody is working in Townhall and only Market (as a source of Liberty Bells) affects on the summary city productivity.



    Fortunately, a new Fishermen arrives from Europe and now we can return our Elder Statesman in Townhall. Disloyal Colonist will remain on Market.



    Now both mechanism Codex and Liberty Bells generation will work together. After 2 turns we see:



    After additional 6 turns:



    As we see from this screen both mechanism are working. Elder Statesman is working in Townhall and increases output productivity of all units. Disloyal Colonist is working on Market, creates some disorganization in the goods production (-8% from Rebel Sentiment for Food, etc), but at the same time he generates Liberty Bells (Revolution 4%).

    Information for modders:

    This version made mainly for demonstration purposes. Modified source codes are included in SDK directory and marked as

    Code:
    //1492: Codex START
    //1492: Codex END
    Everyone is free to modify, supplement, correct or use any part of this MODCOMP. Please, don't ask my special permission.

    Download here
     
  2. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Hi, KJ Jansson! :)

    This looks really good! :goodjob:

    Excellent idea with the market as starting point (building) for the revolutionary sentiment! :goodjob:

    As currently I only have browsed through the pics and your explanations, I may come back later to this and give my comments. :)

    If I understand correctly, in your version the "revolutionary sentiment" works versus "organization"?
     
  3. KJ Jansson

    KJ Jansson Chieftain

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    Absolutely correct, Commander Bello!

    "Codex" (or Organization, or Order, or Law, oder "Ordnung") is pro-King force.
    "Liberty Bells" is anti-King force.

    These forces are working in opposite directions. Codex (or better organization) increases output of products (plus on cityscreen), Liberty Bells - decreases productivity (minus on cityscreen).

    Summary output = Staring output + % due to Better Organization - % due to Rebel Sentiment.
     
  4. Karl-Heinz

    Karl-Heinz aka Akropolis

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    Germany
    Which unit is needed for Fatherpoints?
     
  5. KJ Jansson

    KJ Jansson Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I don't know how the game calculates FatherPoints. At least in this MODCOMP I didn't touch FF at all. Anyway the game calculates FatherPoints somehow. Most probably the game uses both Elder Statesman and Disloyal Colonist data.

    I especially added two "Event 1: King's Statesman" and "Event 2: Market" to create the equal starting conditions for all players.

    P.S. I don't like how FF concept is realized in CivIVCol. Probably, later I will make the cardinal corrections of this part, too. If I could enough free time, of course
     
  6. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Chieftain

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    Nice mod :D

    Political father points are generated on a rate of 5 for every liberty bell yield produced, IIRC.

    If I may make a suggestion, I would make it so the elder statesman continues having a bonus to production of liberty bells, while adding a new unit called "Expert Magistrate", which would produce the codex yield; the idea is to represent the politics/administration split, so that the political arena (that of statesmen) is the arena of plurality and open disputes, while the administrative arena (that of magistrates) is the arena of maintenance of order.
     
  7. KJ Jansson

    KJ Jansson Chieftain

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    Thank you, Andre!

    Generally, I agree that

    However, this is true for XIX-XXI but not for XVI-XVII centures. Look, the King send his presenter in his (that is King's) new colony. This presenter must strictly follow King's orders. He must be fully loyal to his King. Otherwise the King will send other presenter. Where in such scheme "plurality and open disputes"?

    To my opinion, Townhall should be and remain during all game responsible only for Admistration functions (law, order, productivity). No politics at all!

    How to split politics and administration? This is rather complicated question.

    I see "politics" (= Liberty Bells generation) in such form.
    Semi-political disputes in form of jokes, rumors, gossips appear on Market. Then they could be continued in Pubs/Saloons (these buildings are absent in this MODCOMP), later in Schools/Colleges/University. And maximum "plurality and open disputes" we will have when Printing Press/Newspaper buildings will be available. This is a reason why I fully removed all politics from the Townhall in this MODCOMP.

    This, we have a set of buildings for "Politics". Similar set of buildings could be created for "Administration", too.

    Quite simple to realize, absolutely clear for AI, and historically authentic.
     
  8. Karl-Heinz

    Karl-Heinz aka Akropolis

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    I don't like to punish Rebel Sentiment with loss of production.
     
  9. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Hi KJ! :)

    As I've stated already, your modcomp looks quite good. :goodjob:

    Nevertheless, I have to admit to have my problems with the general way in which you've set it up.

    The "disloyal colonist" increases the output of bells and thus, the revolutionary sentiment. So far, so good.
    But, he also reduces the productivity of the colony, meaning the closes you are at the point of declaring independence, the worse your productivity will be.

    To counter this, you have the statesman, who in turn raises productivity.

    Both concepts are working versus each other - and this, as far as I see, creates quite some problems.
    • because you want to save your productivity, in fact you are paying 4 (2 disloyal, 2 statesman) food for your output of bells - and this is just the lowest level
    • it can be expected that for any additional level of one of the both, you will again have to install the counter measure, thus increasing your food consumption
    • in fact you are doubling the needed citizens for less result (compared to the current concept)
    • based on your screenshots, both concepts influence each other - the higher productivity due to the statesman leads to higher revolutionary sentiment
    • this is not very intuitiv

    I honestly think that a little bit of rework might be needed here. :sad:
     
  10. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I believe that KJ has put some thought and consideration into this ModComp. :)
    He implemented it in a way that he believes these aspects should work.

    Also, first of all MopComps are basic examples / patterns how to implement certain mechanisms.

    Improvement (AI, balancing, ...) and adaption to individual tastes are topics of their own.
    (These things are usually done, when a ModComp is adapted to a specific Mod.)

    The implementation (having 2 concept working against each other) is very interesting from a technical and a conceptual perspective. :goodjob:

    As KJ said, every modder could use this ModComp to create his own individual version. :thumbsup:
     
  11. Colonel_Zation

    Colonel_Zation Chieftain

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    This is very good modcomp, exactly what i need. Only thing is that it crashes at some point. I have autosave but somehow i was able to continue where i left off.
    Anyway, here's full dump file. I wonder if anyone else have the same problem.
     

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