Modding and Firaxis

[Shiggs713]

yea, I'm not sure what you expected... some magical tools that reads your brain waves and creates content exactly how you envision it.... this stuff isn't easy, thats why these people make serious bank, and why the modders are so appreciated. I guess you just don't know how modding works. That civ3 editor isn't modding btw. All the veteran modders seem to be pleased of what we've heard so far.

 

[Dale]

The statement that the tools will allow for "unlimited customisation in every single way" is obvious hyperbole.

Why is it? Civ4 had "unlimited customisation in every single way". That's obvious!

 

[The_J]

Not for the .exe .

 

[deanej]

But the only thing is the .exe is the graphics engine, the main menu system, DRM, and some other fundamentals. Aside from some graphics stuff and the main menu, it's pretty much stuff that nobody would need to mod in the first place.

Btw, it was recently discovered how to change the loading splash via the .exe for civ4.

 

[Afforess]

But the only thing is the .exe is the graphics engine, the main menu system, DRM, and some other fundamentals. Aside from some graphics stuff and the main menu, it's pretty much stuff that nobody would need to mod in the first place.

Uh, wrong. I know loads of things I'd change if I could get the EXE. The Diplo Screen, the Event & Combat Log, how some of the python is interpreted, How the TGA is loaded, ... I can go on and on, if you want.

Btw, it was recently discovered how to change the loading splash via the .exe for civ4.

Nope, it's months old (October-ish 2009). I figured it out, and people "re-discovered" my tutorial..

 

[Dale]

Nope, it's months old (October-ish 2009). I figured it out, and people "re-discovered" my tutorial..

Pffft. Knew how to do that during the beta of vanilla in 2005.

 

[Afforess]

Pffft. Knew how to do that during the beta of vanilla in 2005.

Proof?

 

[Dale]

Proof?

See attached pic...... wait, is that a 2K lawyer? Hang on a sec.

 

[Jeckel]

It's amazing how many things have been 'discovered' every few months through out the years.

 

[tom2050]

yea, I'm not sure what you expected... some magical tools that reads your brain waves and creates content exactly how you envision it.... this stuff isn't easy, thats why these people make serious bank, and why the modders are so appreciated. I guess you just don't know how modding works. That civ3 editor isn't modding btw. All the veteran modders seem to be pleased of what we've heard so far.

And here we go again, I expected nothing except that you use what's in your head to understand the point I was making... Apparently you don't know how reading a sentence and seeing the point works. In the same sense, XML is not modding either then... that sentence doesn't even make sense. Modding means a modification to the original game, and applies to any modification done by anyone. Go buy a dictionary.

Of course creating new units is something you need to know how to do. That wasn't the point. I will explain it to you in small words so you understand.

Firaxsis stated unprecedented modding tools. XML is not a Firaxsis tool. Then they stated the Worldbuilder, but that doing the vast majority of things, such as making Ghandi live in Washington was unanswerable, EG took it as a No.

The only tool it sounded like was making a map, that is not unprecedented, and not a new tool. That was the point. Can you comprehend that? Or is it too difficult for you.

Firaxsis' claim is a sales pitch, nothing else. He made it sound as it is basically the same as Civ 4.

I know C++, XML, and graphic/animation creation. Not a pro at them, but know them well enough for what I care to know of them. If you still don't understand the point I made, then I can't help your type any further.

Tom

Moderator Action: Stop the flaming
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[SJSerio]

I'm now very optimisitic about Civ5 modding. Sounds like they are giving us best of both worlds. All the SDK and XML, but some tools for the non-programmers. Win-Win for me.

And you said that it couldn't be done!

 

[phungus420]

In case anyone was wondering Firaxis is definatly listening. In all their recent interviews they have made it a point to emphasize that they are working on an easy to use and powerful external scenario builder. Which is great, that's one of the main features everyone from all walks of the modding community want. Personally I don't think this is a new decision on their part, I'm sure they have been developing this for a while; the Firaxis devs are for the most part Civ4 players (and modders) themselves afterall; I'm sure they knew this was something that needed working on, but it's good to know they are listening enough to confirm this for us.

Personally I'm still very curious about the in game modding shell. But I doubt we'll get much info on this at this time. For one, it's probably still in active development, and isn't at a point yet where they would want to show it off. I'm sure they have a functioning bootstrap, or maybe even an alpha built for it, but I'd expect the aesthetics and more user friendly and intuitive presentation behind it isn't done yet, and that's really what that whole feature is about, so no point in showing us now. Also I'd expect there are some disputes between Take Two and Firaxis itself about the implementation of the system. At least if I try to think about what my point of view would be about this feature from a publisher's perspective it would be drastically different then from a developer's.

Now If World Builder is done, and they have a dedicated programmer working on mod tools, maybe they could put some effort into a simple Unit Editing station. Just something simple that could clone units, swap and import art, and tweak stats, but would utterly break for SDK mods (adding SDK coding support to such a tool wouldn't be worth the effort). Most casual users would be happy with a simple tool that could do such things, and most advanced modders would be off doing something else anyway. But there are alot of casual users that could get a lot of enjoyment out of a simple unit editor. Not that this will happen, and I also don't think it's even remotely important, but this is what I'd be pushing for if I had my hand in the kitchen, and I think it would actually be worth the investment; such a feature would definitely score big points in early reviews at least.

 

[Veshta]

From the latest string of previews it appears that Firaxis will be adding an in-game way of accessing Mods and probably rate them.
The more people they can get to dabble in creating the things, the more will be available and the bigger incentive for the inevitable free-loader (read: pirate) to buy the game.

 

[mjs0]

I will be interested to see if the modding tools are mod-tolerant.
What do I mean by that?

Well not long after civ5 ships there are sure to be a number of must have mods for many of us hardcore civ players, (mods like BUG, BAT, BULL, BetterAI, BlueMarble and many others for Civ4.)

So...the question arises...if I am using the 'Wibble' mod say, can I still fire up the worldbuilder and construct a scenario quickly and easily without losing Wibble in the process?

Sure I can open up Visual Studio and churn out C++ with the best of them, and code Python and XML with my eyes closed and I know that if I am going to build my own sophisticated mod then I will have to put in a lot of work to integrate other mods that I like, but...sometimes I just want to test out some new balance for a unit, or tweak some simple gameplay parameters in XML, or experiment with terrain and resource layout.
Will I be able to do that using these great tools and keep 'Wibble' or not?

Similarly if a significant change in gameplay is programmed in my mod via DLL are there interfaces in the tools that will let me give others a way to build simple scenarios with this enhanced gameplay incorporated.

I know this sounds like asking for a lot...but I can see the disappointment shortly after release if this is not possible.

 

[The_J]

I wonder, if we will have to register to a special service to be allowed to upload mods .


What i thought would be a nice modding tool: A program with a google translation API, which will grab you text keys, and automatically requests the translation by google and fills the text into the files.
Yes, i know, google translation sucks for texts, but i guess it would work quite good for single words and would make modding a lot nicer.

 

[tom2050]

yea, I'm not sure what you expected... some magical tools that reads your brain waves and creates content exactly how you envision it.... this stuff isn't easy, thats why these people make serious bank, and why the modders are so appreciated. I guess you just don't know how modding works. That civ3 editor isn't modding btw. All the veteran modders seem to be pleased of what we've heard so far.

Civilization V, will bring a versatile editor that allow users to alter the game and its rules at will.

Info is in thread called Civ 5 Editor

Looks like Shiggy up there assumes that anyone who mods with the Civ 5 editor, is some low-life non-modder sap, since it can alter the game and it's rules at will:

If you mod with the Civ 5 editor, Shiggs thinks:
1. You are some noob who doesn't know how modding works
2. The Civ 5 editor isn't modding
3. Isn't a vet modder, or a modder period
4. Seems to think it's some magical tool for reading brain waves

This news is excellent, as it allows more people access to do things they would like... I will, on the other hand, stop reading interviews literally...

Tom

 

[Afforess]

Info is in thread called Civ 5 Editor

Looks like Shiggy up there assumes that anyone who mods with the Civ 5 editor, is some low-life non-modder sap, since it can alter the game and it's rules at will:

If you mod with the Civ 5 editor, Shiggs thinks:
1. You are some noob who doesn't know how modding works
2. The Civ 5 editor isn't modding
3. Isn't a vet modder, or a modder period
4. Seems to think it's some magical tool for reading brain waves

This news is excellent, as it allows more people access to do things they would like... I will, on the other hand, stop reading interviews literally...

Tom

Shiggy is just trying to warn you that it is unlikely that you will get a fully featured or totally polished editor like they say you will. Ever heard of Marketing?

 

[cephalo]

Here's one thing I don't like about tools. In order to create great mods, you will have to access the SDK and XML etc. Everything made with tools is going to be half-arsed. The result is that we are going to have a flood of clunky, half arsed mods to wade through in order to find the good stuff.

 

[Afforess]

Here's one thing I don't like about tools. In order to create great mods, you will have to access the SDK and XML etc. Everything made with tools is going to be half-arsed. The result is that we are going to have a flood of clunky, half arsed mods to wade through in order to find the good stuff.

I know and totally agree. Dale seems to think that the good mods will rise to the top. I'll only agree with him if the Firaxis mod manager has a way of rating mods.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Which is why Phungus 420 suggested coherency and stabillity ratings for mods, not just fan approval.