KrugerPritz
King
Maybe is the worng place... I didn't found anywhere... anybody knows if the units made for civ4 could be used also in civ5 or we have to remake them?
Modding and Firaxis
- Thread starter phungus420
- Start date
deanej
Deity
I would imagine that we'll eventually be able to convert the models, but I'm not sure about animations.
Only if it's a poorly made editor. The editor should read the XML tags from the schema and automaticly add in any new tags, in some suitable way. Making it possible to add new tags (via SDK) and then hardcode the editor so it can't handle that would be a really stupid way of doing things.
deanej
Deity
I doubt the people screaming for an editor would be happy editing stuff like bMilitaryHappiness and iCombat. Descriptions and stuff would need to be hardcoded to the values.
You are right that descriptions and stuff are needed. You are wrong that they have to be hardcoded. Why would they have to be hardcoded? There is no reason I can think of to do such a thing except laziness/time constraints.
Example of one way to not hardcode them:
Give each element an ID. The ID work basically the same as TXT_KEY does in civ 4, that is it makes the editor look up a text with that value (or more likely several, example ID_description, ID_help and anything else you need). If the ID is missing, then default to the name of the element. Voila, you now have an editor that can handle almost all mod-added XML fields.
I'm sure there are other ways it can be done, if the way I suggested is not good enough.
Example of one way to not hardcode them:
Give each element an ID. The ID work basically the same as TXT_KEY does in civ 4, that is it makes the editor look up a text with that value (or more likely several, example ID_description, ID_help and anything else you need). If the ID is missing, then default to the name of the element. Voila, you now have an editor that can handle almost all mod-added XML fields.
I'm sure there are other ways it can be done, if the way I suggested is not good enough.
deanej
Deity
Is there a way to make the ID as part of the schema? If so, I could see it, but if not, I don't think Firaxis would take the time to make Civ5IDInfos.xml for that. Especially since Firaxis was too lazy to make Civ4FontInfos.xml so we got stuck with GameFont.tga.
Chalks
The blue pieces
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,097
Well, they have expressly said that they're going to be working hard on a really extensive set of modding tools for Civ 5 - I don't think the argument "they didn't do it before" really flies here at all.
deanej
Deity
I remember reading in a thread here that they said the exact same thing about civ4. That's marketing talking anyways, so we have to take it with a grain of salt.
SJSerio
Centurion
Very good point!
Yes, ID is valid for schema. That is why I used it as an example. If the editor is available in multiple languages they have to create an XML file for localization, but they do that for a lot of files already. It's not like hardcoding it would get around the need for localization anyway.
kiwitt
Road to War Modder
Will we be using MS C++ 2008 Express to start modding or will we have to use the older 2005 version.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
What I really want to know is what's going on with the downloading and installation of mods from within the game shell and how much "control" Firaxis wants over distribution of mods. Will CFC be rendered obsolete?
Also, what is this "flagging" system to rate "objectionable" content all about? I really do NOT like the sound of that one bit.
Also, what is this "flagging" system to rate "objectionable" content all about? I really do NOT like the sound of that one bit.
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 7,856
It's been confirmed numerous times that both the Civ4 way and the new mod hub will work. So no need to fear fan sites disappearing.
As for flagging, I suspect the new 2K job for Civ community manager would be where flagged mods end up, in their email box.
Afforess
The White Wizard
xienwolf
Deity
I picture the "limited control over modding" to basically be iTunes App Store. You submit your mods through their client, and then other people can browse all accepted submissions. I just hope that patching your mod remains painless. Seems like it is painless on iTunes, but I haven't actually written anything for them, just been on the user side of things.
phungus420
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 6,296
Good point on patches. I wonder how the system will deal with removing old files that if left over will cause conflicts. Setting up a system to install new files is pretty simple, setting it up to recognize and remove old files that aren't overwritten is alot more complex.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
It's probably just there so they can remove any mods that deserve a Ao rating....
If users can flag, it can be abused. Anything in the least bit controversial could suffer.
For instance, someone puts out a mod with Israel as a civ, a whole bunch of people who don't like Israel flag it. Someone puts out a mod with Hitler as a leader, a whole bunch of people flag it.
While Firaxis may not remove these mods, some people may avoid making certain mods because they don't want to be branded by vocal minorities.
I don't need little gaggles of special interest ideologues with their agendas, telling me what's good and what's bad.
Afforess
The White Wizard
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
Democracy; love it or leave it.
If every product had to display how much hate mail it had received on its packaging, and call it by some neutral term like "flags", would that be democracy?
That's what flagging essentially is, it's hate mail. If hate mail wants a venue, it can get one of its own and critique mods in discussion threads. I'd rather they'd simply have a
"report this" system where mods that really go over the top are reported, but unless found by the community manager to be wholly inappropriate for distribution across the civ network, do not have to bear the stamp of their critics. That let's everyone judge for themselves which, imho, is the very essence of democracy.
The other problem with the flagging system is that it's automated and relies only on numbers. The end-user has no way to know why something was heavily flagged. It could've been flagged by racists; or it could have been flagged by people who felt the mod was racist. Context can provide the answer in some cases, but certainly not all. The other problem is that it only gives space to critics, which isn't very democratic at all!!
Perhaps more fair, instead of a flagging system, would be to simply have every mod automatically come with a comments section. This way, critics have to actually put in a little elbow-grease and state their objection, and the end-user gets to see whether the critics were being fair, or whether they were just lashing out against something they don't like. Plus, it gives equal space to critics and supporters, rather than exclusively critics.
Afforess
The White Wizard
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