Modern Communist Parties.

[History_Buff]

I was just wondering are modern communist parties so unpopular beacuae they are actually Stalinist/Maoist, or merely because they are immediately associated with those systems?

I am by no means a supporter of extreme left wing philosophies, but I thought it was a question worth asking. Thoughts everyone. . .

 

[Apollo]

I think you answered yourself there with that bit about "I am by no means a supporter of extreme left wing philosophies". Communism is more extreme than most people are comfortable with. The majority of people are either moderate or in one of the groups on either side of the middle, while communism is several groups to the left and therefore extreme.

Also, while communism sounds nice, it's not completely possible in the modern world and most people realize that.

 

[amadeus]

One thing nobody ever points out is that Communism is the far extreme.

Just a small scale I'm writing up on the fly:

Anarchism, no regulation - Somalia, Congo
Capitalism, little regulation - U.S., South Korea, Japan
Capitalism, some regulation - U.K., France, Germany
Capitalism, heavy regulation - Sweden, Finland, China
Communism, complete state control - Laos, North Korea

See what I'm getting at, here?

 

[CornMaster]

Originally posted by Apollo
Also, while communism sounds nice, it's not completely possible in the modern world and most people realize that.

Actually...Communism needs a more modern world. A more technologically advanced people to work. The lack of industry, over-population, and huge empires have made Communism impractical thus far.

Also...most Communist leaders thus far have been dickheads. And tried to use Money....and fear to rule.

Bad ideas! You need to totally start over.....not try and reform the heck out of the current system.

 

[napoleon526]

Communism is the world's biggest joke. Marx had a skewed view of world economics, and his theories, while impressive in theory, have led to economic ruin in countries which still have this system.

 

[TubaGuy]

I'm gonna have to agree, I think the past 50 years have shown that communism doesn't work. There are 4 countries that a Communist in the world today.
Cuba
PRC
North Korea
Vietnam

Out of those 3 China is the only country doing moderatly ok.

 

[amadeus]

Don't forget Laos...of course, the Lao military is armed with bamboo sticks and a culturally enriching history isn't exactly going to fear their form of "martial law."

 

[CornMaster]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Don't forget Laos...of course, the Lao military is armed with bamboo sticks and a culturally enriching history isn't exactly going to fear their form of "martial law."

Military might means nothing if your people are not happy.

Why is EVERYTHING you talk about always relate back to Military power?

Quality of Life, and happiness mean more to me, than Military power. Are the people of Laos happy? If they are, then Communism has worked there.

If not, then it failed.

According to rmsharpe, Communism was a huge success in the USSR. Because they had (in my opinion...and I'm sure he would disagree) a greater military than the US. Unfortuntally in a Capitalist world, Communism is going to have a rough time.

 

[Ohwell]

WoW! More communism bashing!

Like Corn said, Communism will flourish when the rulers are actually sane, the military is not oppresive, and the living standards are high.

 

[amadeus]

And to embrace the wisdom of Mike Myers:

"when monkeys fly out of my butt!"

Communism feeds off the needs of "the people" -- if the needs are already met, then Communism has no purpose.

The Soviet Union, also, was a mixed success. Under Lenin, and to some degree, Stalin, it industrialized an isolated piece of Eastern Europe, and eventually extended to the Balkans.

The bad part was that the whole purpose of the industrial movements in Eastern Europe was to make new weapons to feed the Soviet Union.

 

[Greadius]

China started doing okay when Deng allowed market forces to decide economic policy. Before that it was as much of a mess as the rest of them.

Modern communists use a standard arguement when looking at history: Ignore that. Communism hasn't worked because it wasn't done right, but given absolute power, we'll do it right this time; promise.

They blame flaws on the individuals rather than the system... how come individual idiots can't ruin capitalist systems, but individual idiots can ruin Communism?

 

[CornMaster]

Originally posted by Greadius
Modern communists use a standard arguement when looking at history: Ignore that. Communism hasn't worked because it wasn't done right, but given absolute power, we'll do it right this time; promise.

Absolute power is not the answer!

It's all the people wanting to make a better life.

They must establish self-control, and be genieually interested in improving theirself, and their fellow man.

I would like to form a country where people can come and go as they please, so that people that WANT to be there, are there.

Citizenship isn't granted by birthright, it must be earned and wanted. A place where people can live in peace and have as much or a little outside interference as they want. And if they dislike the Utopian Communism I would hope that existed...then they can leave, and move elsewhere.

But that will never happen.

 

[prefect42]

Yeah. . .most poeple despise communists out of sheer stupidity.

Let's kill the commies. . .right

they don't even know what communists are!

In fact. . .when I talk to people, they don't often know what the difference between Communist and NAZI is. . .sad eh?

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by CornMaster
I would like to form a country where people can come and go as they please, so that people that WANT to be there, are there.

Hmm... real world applications. Lets try and think of a people where people want to come... countries with high immigration... are Communist countries in that list?
Lets think of countries where people can't leave. Cuba? China? North Korea? What do these countries have in common?

Originally posted by prefect42
In fact. . .when I talk to people, they don't often know what the difference between Communist and NAZI is. . .sad eh?

I do! In Communism, mass murder takes longer.

 

[Hamlet]

This is all pointless, as History_buff is convinced that all socialist parties are evil communists.

 

[scorch]

corn has nailed it on the spot.

The problem with historic communism, like the soviets, is that the leaders treated the country as a game, (like you would play a game of civ), and were power hungry.

 

[Hitro]

You miss the most important point when you judge the communist theory after so-called communist countries. Communism, as it is meant to be, should be the result of a WORLD revolution. There shouldn't be something like a communist country, that is an oxymoron.
Now that is also the part where the utopia begins, as a world revolution is unlikely probably to the point of impossible.
But it is no wonder that communism didn't work when introduced in single countries. That's just because to do that, you have to abolish communism, see the problem?

It is like CornMaster said, it could theoretically work in another, more modern world (like Star Trek ). But for now that is utopic.
So present communist parties have two choices:
1. They advocate world revolution which is a rather pointless work.
2. They try to 'revolutinize' single countries, which is not really communist.

Kind of a dilemma, eh?

 

[Simon Darkshade]

"All socialist parties are evil communists."
Indeed. Fits in with my definition.
It is a bankrupt, failed ideology spawned of 19th century economic conditions and crackpot theories that has as much place in modern society as death by stoning, cavorting druids and dung for dinner.
Away to the dustbin of history with this despicable evil, and all who cling foolishly to its dangling, decomposing tendrils!
Give my regards to Stalin while you're there, and ask if he is still coming to take tea and snuff on Sunday.
It never worked, it never can work, it never will work, and will never be allowed to work.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
It is a bankrupt, failed ideology spawned of 19th century economic conditions and crackpot theories that has as much place in modern society as death by stoning, cavorting druids and dung for dinner.

You forgot to mention exorzism, fascism and that weird hairdos of the 80s...

 

[knowltok2]

Originally posted by CornMaster

They must establish self-control, and be genieually interested in improving theirself, and their fellow man.

I'm thinking this will happen a few years before we transcend into beings of pure energy.

Sorry, but these models all require people rising well above their own nature. People, by nature, are selfish. A government that ignores this basic premise isn't going to work as intended.

Modern communists use a standard arguement when looking at history: Ignore that. Communism hasn't worked because it wasn't done right, but given absolute power, we'll do it right this time; promise.

Apparently we are supposed to change the absolute power part of this to be "but if all the people spontaneously give genuine concern to the betterment of all people, we can make it work; promise