[Modmod]Dawn of Knoedel - Comprehensive Rebalance Project

[Wessel V1]

I'm starting to think Democracy is actually a very useful tech, because its Great Statesman allows you to switch from Medieval civics to Renaissance civics including Egalitarianism without the 3 turns anarchy. It's a pity you cannot actually bulb Democracy with Liberalism anymore, but if you bulb Corporation with it it's well worth the effort to go for Democracy first.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Why not use the Jail to reduce maintenance? That seems so logical to me, I can't believe I'm the first to think of it.

It already does in my modmod? That's not the problem, the problem is that a statesman slot doesn't fit it at all. How many great political thinkers working in jails do you know? Or is that supposed to represent people like Nelson Mandela or Solzhenitsyn?

+1 specialist per Town though? That would probably be the strongest wonder in the game.

Per Town in the BFC of course, like the National Park effect for Forest Preserves. This should be the final nail in the coffin, cementing the superiority of civs with mature towns over less urban civs for good.

I'm starting to think Democracy is actually a very useful tech, because its Great Statesman allows you to switch from Medieval civics to Renaissance civics including Egalitarianism without the 3 turns anarchy. It's a pity you cannot actually bulb Democracy with Liberalism anymore, but if you bulb Corporation with it it's well worth the effort to go for Democracy first.

It's only useful for the first to research it, which is exactly my problem with it.

Also Liberalism doesn't bulb anything in my mod, Scientific Method does, and I doubt Corporation is the best pick for it.

Btw in case you guys think I'm not doing anything at the moment, I am just about done with my culture enhancement mod and will upload it shortly as a component for all the community to enjoy, the only thing still throwing me for a loop is CvGameTextMgrcpp as making the game tell the player about a new mechanic is curiously more difficult than coding the new mechanic itself.

 

[Wessel V1]

Well, if you beeline it exactly after Liberalism, chances are pretty likely that for most civs the Great Statesman is yours. About the free tech tied to Scientific Method, I didn't know that, because admittedly I've never tried your modmodmod. It does make some sense though.

Also, don't forget that Forest Preserves are weak compared to other improvements, so to maximise the effect of the National Park you really have to give up some potential to make it work. Towns on the other hand are already the first option, so there is no trade off. I also think it would be strongest in the hands of the player, who emphasises cottages much more than the AI does.

 

[need my speed]

It already does in my modmod? That's not the problem, the problem is that a statesman slot doesn't fit it at all. How many great political thinkers working in jails do you know? Or is that supposed to represent people like Nelson Mandela or Solzhenitsyn?

Oh, right, I misinterpreted you then. I agree that a Great Statesman doesn't really fit there.

As for the Jail... I think I came up with the idea in the beginning of 2015, or perhaps in 2014, but I'm really not sure.

 

[Leoreth]

Per Town in the BFC of course, like the National Park effect for Forest Preserves. This should be the final nail in the coffin, cementing the superiority of civs with mature towns over less urban civs for good.

I know, still. I actually like the idea and would love to use it for a wonder but it's just way too powerful.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Now to be fair, to build cottages in my modmod you need to sacrifice a worker.

 

[spaceman98]

Well, if you beeline it exactly after Liberalism, chances are pretty likely that for most civs the Great Statesman is yours. About the free tech tied to Scientific Method, I didn't know that, because admittedly I've never tried your modmodmod. It does make some sense though.

Also, don't forget that Forest Preserves are weak compared to other improvements, so to maximise the effect of the National Park you really have to give up some potential to make it work. Towns on the other hand are already the first option, so there is no trade off. I also think it would be strongest in the hands of the player, who emphasises cottages much more than the AI does.

the tradeoff in this mod is that you lose your workers when you build cottages. A mechanic that annoys me to no end, but it does accomplish the tradeoff

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

the tradeoff in this mod is that you lose your workers when you build cottages. A mechanic that annoys me to no end, but it does accomplish the tradeoff

Hey now, would you rather have lots of unemployed smoochers sitting around draining your upkeep?

 

[Force44]

Actually minimizing the amount of smoochers is an incentive when planning improvements.

Now if there was a way to regain those workers from the cottages they built...
(... like a worker nets a cottage but a hamlet nets a worker...)
...I see no way in which the system you came up with isn't superior to the one firaxis implemented.
(besides the AI's ability to use it)

 

[merijn_v1]

Hey now, would you rather have lots of unemployed smoochers sitting around draining your upkeep?

Ever heard of the "delete unit" button? If you really want to get rid of them, just delete them.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Ever heard of the "delete unit" button? If you really want to get rid of them, just delete them.

But what if I need a worker later? D:

Eh, how about workers build cottages without dying but you can sacrifice them to skip that step and build a hamlet right away?

 

[merijn_v1]

But what if I need a worker later? D:

That is a choice you have to make. But at least you have a choice. If it is sacrificed by default, you don't even have that choice.

EDIT: I mean, you can also choose not to kill it. But the decision of killing if or keeping it isn't made for you.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

That is a choice you have to make. But at least you have a choice. If it is sacrificed by default, you don't even have that choice.

Do you mean it's a choice I have to make as the developer, or it's a choice by the player whether to build a cottage and keep using the worker or sacrifice it to gain a hamlet right away?

 

[merijn_v1]

I mean the player has the choice to choose between kill (reduce upkeep) and keep (for later use). So the decision between killing and keeping is up to the player, rather than forced upon them.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I mean the player has the choice to choose between kill (reduce upkeep) and keep (for later use). So the decision between killing and keeping is up to the player, rather than forced upon them.

You could also just not build cottages and remain agrarian forever? It worked out great for Eastern Europe... for a while.

 

[PizzaProwler]

Hey now, would you rather have lots of unemployed smoochers sitting around draining your upkeep?

The word you're looking for here is "moochers" not "smoochers"

Sorry, I had to correct that. The word you used evokes the image of my unemployed workers kissing in the streets

On topic: I think the worker cost of a hamlet is justified in the increased strength of villages and towns under certain civics and techs. As much as it annoys me to lose the workers (I like to keep spare workers to patch up damage from invading troops and pesky spies), the decision could be defended by reason of balance.

 

[ezzlar]

Do workers count for unit maintenance?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

The word you're looking for here is "moochers" not "smoochers"

Sorry, I had to correct that. The word you used evokes the image of my unemployed workers kissing in the streets

Well they got to make a living somehow.

Do workers count for unit maintenance?

I think so yes, which means that Levy Armies is great for having lots of workers lying wround doing nothing. In my modmod for Legends of Revolution I made years back where I also have cottages consume workers I made Free Market increase unit upkeep and State Property reduce it. The intended effect being that capitalists would build workers when they needed them and then made cottages out of them when they were done improving while communists would keep them around, building railroads and workshops and watermills throughout Siberia and newly "liberated" territories.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Good news everybody, Dawn of Knoedel is back online on Github, which means my links in the OP are no longer dead!

To be honest it's been so long and chaotic, I don't actually know what changes I have implemented since my last upload. The one thing I can guarantee you is that DoK is now up to date with DoC, that is all the bugfixes, the new religious spread mechanics, Judaism, all that good stuff Leoreth developed over the past months can now also be found here, rendering his version obsolete.

There are probably still some problems I have to iron out, as I was mostly focused on merging with DoC and squashing all resulting bugs in order to at least have a bugfree release, which means I almost certainly overlooked some details. For one, the Jewish Cathedral probably doesn't give a free Great Priest like those of other religions. I will check for such inconsistencies the next few hours.

Edit: I added the missing free Priest.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Two commits today: One for staying up to date with DoC and the other for cleaning up various descriptions and renaming "Modern Infantry" to "Squad Infantry".

You can follow my commits here.

I gotta say, Git is really comfortable working with. No need for separate changelogs or version control or deciding when it's just about good enough to release, just a continuous stream of working and uploading.