[Modmod]Sunset of Civilization

[1SDANi]

What's DCR? And can they or can they not perform a Recon Mission there?



Curious, in my experience Rome never seems to amount to much and it's Persia and Greece who run away in tech. At any rate, getting the tech rate working right has been a major concern of mine recently, especially in the Classical to early Medieval time frame.

Also as a general heads-up, I'm gonna postpone the official release until after Leoreth has released his patch for 1.16 and I have merged that in and playtested a bit. Since my next project is a complete revision of the tech tree that serves me just right as there's plenty of preparing I can do just with a spreadsheet and Wikipedia.

its my acronym for civilizations reborn. I didnt check recon missions, just wad checking movement

 

[mateyson]

8 Sibiran cities for Russia? For what?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

8 Sibiran cities for Russia? For what?

So your people can make songs about how wide your motherland is:

Also because I moved the deadline from 1700 to 1720.

 

[Enyavar]

May I ask which commit you are using for that game? I can't open the attached save.

I downloaded it from the Github directory, on 6/30/2019 (or 30. 6. 2019 ). Where can I check the commit/build number, or do I need github installed for that?

I'd encourage you to update your version.

Will do. After winning my Indonesia game.
Incidentally, I encountered a snag in that game: No error message, just a return to the desktop interface while the app suddenly closes during the next-turn-calculations.

Found out the reason after several crashes and testing with WorldBuilder: China has decided to collapse, but processing this causes the game to collapse. Could "fix" it by setting the TurnsToCollapse variable in World Builder to -1. I played some more turns and tried to let China collapse under controlled circumstances by setting it back to 0; but when I do, the game crashes again. I will experiment on that a bit, it might be a hardware problem.

If you think this should have been solved by commits recently, feel free to ignore it. I see that your Github repository now has a road movement fix, so again: I'll get that asap after this win. Thanks!

 

[mateyson]

So your people can make songs about how wide your motherland is:

Also because I moved the deadline from 1700 to 1720.

And you know many big cities of course, comrade. Make goal passed in 1700AD as Loreath did.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I downloaded it from the Github directory, on 6/30/2019 (or 30. 6. 2019 ). Where can I check the commit/build number, or do I need github installed for that?

Good question, I don't actually know the answer. Judging by the commits page your version is probably the one from June 23rd.

Incidentally, I encountered a snag in that game: No error message, just a return to the desktop interface while the app suddenly closes during the next-turn-calculations.

Found out the reason after several crashes and testing with WorldBuilder: China has decided to collapse, but processing this causes the game to collapse. Could "fix" it by setting the TurnsToCollapse variable in World Builder to -1. I played some more turns and tried to let China collapse under controlled circumstances by setting it back to 0; but when I do, the game crashes again. I will experiment on that a bit, it might be a hardware problem.

Curious. I will keep an eye on it.

And you know many big cities of course, comrade. Make goal passed in 1700AD as Loreath did.

It's very easy to found the required cities in time, just whip a Settler in every city with at least 4 population immediately and they will arrive just in time to settle down and celebrate Peter's founding of the Russian Empire in 1921.

 

[mateyson]

Good question, I don't actually know the answer. Judging by the commits page your version is probably the one from June 23rd.



Curious. I will keep an eye on it.



It's very easy to found the required cities in time, just whip a Settler in every city with at least 4 population immediately and they will arrive just in time to settle down and celebrate Peter's founding of the Russian Empire in 1921.

View attachment 541514

Товарисч, давайте не будем играть в бессознанку. Мы тут с коллегами посовещались по поводу [DATA DELETED] и решили послать Вас на Соловки. Там вы, бл[DATA DELETED] узнаете что такое Sibiria [Cайбэриа], спавнить репрессированных at 1703 and отличить хардленд Дальнего Востока от Казахстана.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Товарисч, давайте не будем играть в бессознанку. Мы тут с коллегами посовещались по поводу [DATA DELETED] и решили послать Вас на Соловки. Там вы, бл[DATA DELETED] узнаете что такое Sibiria [Cайбэриа], спавнить репрессированных at 1703 and отличить хардленд Дальнего Востока от Казахстана.

Sounds like a great field trip, let's go!

 

[mateyson]

r

Sounds like a great field trip, let's go!

Mother Russia dont need cities of Kazakhstan [Казахстан], she needs Novosibirsk, Tomsk, Omsk, Vladivostok, Khabaravsk, Tagil and Ust-Kut. Spawning not-neccecery towns you killed it science and game at the very beginning. You go to GULAG, comrade [tovarisch]. Причина: шпионаж.

 

[Nyayr]

Played the modmod as Rome and the Ottomans never showed up lol... at 1280 or any time after. Ottomans have a requirement to spawn?

 

[bluepotato]

Played the modmod as Rome and the Ottomans never showed up lol... at 1280 or any time after. Ottomans have a requirement to spawn?

Yes, even in the base mod. IIRC, this happens if the Turkic civ doesn't conquer anything in the Middle East (= any city west of Susa).

 

[Nyayr]

Ah yeah they flunked that, lol!

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Mother Russia dont need cities of Kazakhstan [Казахстан], she needs Novosibirsk, Tomsk, Omsk, Vladivostok, Khabaravsk, Tagil and Ust-Kut. Spawning not-neccecery towns you killed it science and game at the very beginning. You go to GULAG, comrade [tovarisch]. Причина: шпионаж.

Like I said, sounds like a great field trip.

Also, Russia falling behind in science from over-expansion doesn't seem that unrealistic to me. If it bothers you that much just play the 600 AD scenario like all the cool kids do these days.

New commit(s):

• Merged DoC 1.16.1
• Added a Persian Conqueror event for Mesopotamia and Egypt
• Great Cothon now requires Ivory
• Mine and Road spawn on Cyprus for poor incompetent Phoenician AI
  
• The Hindu Holy City no longer gets auto-razed just because Harappa founded the religion
• When immigrants come to America before the 1950s, there's a 50% chance of them stealing our jobs spawning a worker.
  
• The Chinese UHV now also requires building a Buddhist Chaitya
• Cities should no longer riot during anarchy
• Helicopter Units now have flat movement and thus don't move any faster on routes. To compensate for this, they can now always be airlifted (as long as they haven't done anything else that turn and started in a city) completely independent of Airport presence.
• Changing civics resets the (hunger) riot counter in all cities

I'll give it another month at most before I finally publish the next official release version.

While I'm here, let me list a few ideas I had that I will likely not get around to implementing this version but probably the next one:

• Cultural Defense should be multiplied by the population size of a city. More people = more people willing to fight for their hometown. This should also encourage people to starve cities they intend to conquer.
  
• Some sort of pseudo-yield (like Tourism in Civ5) mostly derived from Espionage and to a lesser extent Culture that can be spent on interacting peacefully with independent cities (like allowing passage of troops, trading resources, all the way up to outright bribing an independent city to join you), averting collapse and improving diplomatic relationships. I might call it "influence".
• Replace Menlo Park with Broadway
• Get the (City Governor) AI to understand and use happiness providing specialists and value culture more
  
• Deleting a unit should only be possible if it has not moved that turn
• Merge Great People and Culture Golden Ages so that reaching certain culture thresholds enables players to use GPs for GAs instead of launching them by itself
• Some small bonus for stationing workers in cities so they provide at least some benefit once the terrain is improved.
  • First Idea: Fully "fortified" (i.e. sitting there for five turns) workers grant a free Citizen specialist for as long as they don't leave the city. Capped at half the population size.
  • Second Idea: Workers can conjure up a pseudo-building that stays in the city for as long as at least one worker does and disappears when they leave. This mechanic is already in use in Fall From Heaven II for some magic spells.
  • To not unduly boost Manorialism, either it could increase unit upkeep for fortified workers or later civics like Individualism or Egalitarianism could reduce it.

 

[Rodnok]

Some small bonus for stationing workers in cities so they provide at least some benefit once the terrain is improved

Hi, just my 2 cents: not a good idea.
It is a basic choice of Civ: either you build more workers and then have a terrain improved faster. And you can sack them later to lower maintenance. Or you build less of them and it takes a longer time to improve all.
Here you basically give a reward to the first group.
It is not about boosting Manorialism, I got many workers even without building any. After building the critical improvements I fired half of them to lower the costs. With this I would keep them as free citizens (another reward for that random thing) and wait until another expansion.

Plus, if a city has poor production due to location, you simply move workers there to get hammers... Or if you want to finish a wonder. There is a reason why Civ4 never had a mechanic to move food or hammers from other cities, if one city sucks. A good game does not have an endless amount of options to do.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

It is a basic choice of Civ: either you build more workers and then have a terrain improved faster. And you can sack them later to lower maintenance. Or you build less of them and it takes a longer time to improve all.
Here you basically give a reward to the first group.

That's not a choice, people who don't spam workers just play the game wrong!

It is not about boosting Manorialism, I got many workers even without building any. After building the critical improvements I fired half of them to lower the costs. With this I would keep them as free citizens (another reward for that random thing) and wait until another expansion.

You mean you MURDERED them? You monster!
What reward for what random thing?
But you can already chose not to MURDER your workers (you monster!) and set them to sleep until random events, new techs or expansion require their services. I just want to have some minor benefit from that instead of micromanaging them to build every available improvement to within one turn of completion on every single tile like I currently do because idle workers give me anxiety (and also I'm not a MURDERER).

Plus, if a city has poor production due to location, you simply move workers there to get hammers... Or if you want to finish a wonder. There is a reason why Civ4 never had a mechanic to move food or hammers from other cities, if one city sucks. A good game does not have an endless amount of options to do.

But Civ4 already has mechanics to move food and hammers from other cities, some more direct than others. Corporations and Great People come to mind, but rushbuying also converts the food and production some cities put into producing money into hammers wherever you want them. Since I would cap the possible amount of "free" Citizens in a city at a number equal or proportional to that city's population size, the extra production you can get from them is already limited by food and thus surrounding terrain, just like whipping is. And the other option I suggested, a sort of pseudo-building (for which I haven't yet specified what its actual effect would be so it doesn't necessarily have to be production), would be capped at one per city anyway.

 

[Rodnok]

You mean you MURDERED them? You monster!
What reward for what random thing?

I got some workers from AI in the 3rd turn once. That was too much in terms of costs (long time before Vassalage), so I fired them later to lower the maintenance.
Of course I could put them to sleep, but then I still pay them. Don't worry, they found other jobs .

With Vassalage you basically could spam workers and use them this way even freely.

But Civ4 already has mechanics to move food and hammers from other cities, some more direct than others. Corporations and Great People come to mind, but rushbuying also converts the food and production some cities put into producing money into hammers wherever you want them..

True, but those are limited and need advanced techs or civics. Not available early.

It's your mod of course. I just find wrong how the principles are negated just to have "more options" to do.

 

[1SDANi]

True, but those are limited and need advanced techs or civics. Not available early.

To be fair, it's not like there's many early civilizations with the kind of coordinated governance that would have allowed them to redirect mass quantities of peoples and resources to far away cities.

 

[Nyayr]

Is this latest one version save game compatible with the previous one?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I got some workers from AI in the 3rd turn once. That was too much in terms of costs (long time before Vassalage), so I fired them later to lower the maintenance.
Of course I could put them to sleep, but then I still pay them. Don't worry, they found other jobs .

Where? In a Soylent Green Factory?

This mod is not intended for capitalist pigs who discard Proletarians the second they are no longer profitable.

With Vassalage you basically could spam workers and use them this way even freely.

After the Tech Tree revision I have a civics overhaul planned where the +free units effect will be moved to a different civic as Vassalage in its current form will stop existing. Also I could easily imagine giving workers extra upkeep costs if they stay in cities.

True, but those are limited and need advanced techs or civics. Not available early.

In the early game most of your workers should be out and about improving the terrain anyway. Naturally I will have to balance the idle workers bonus so that it's your backup option once workers run out of things to do, not something you like to do before most or all of your land is improved.

It's your mod of course. I just find wrong how the principles are negated just to have "more options" to do.

That's fair. Believe me, I do appreciate your input. It helps me stay on the ground and not turn this into another kitchensink mod.

To be fair, it's not like there's many early civilizations with the kind of coordinated governance that would have allowed them to redirect mass quantities of peoples and resources to far away cities.

The Assyrians used resettlement liberally, and the Romans, Persians and Chinese arguably could muster this kind of logistical task.

Is this latest one version save game compatible with the previous one?

Possibly.

However, I am about to upload a new commit that will very likely not be save game compatible with previous versions. Make of that what you will.

 

[1SDANi]

Fair enough