inuyashasama
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 195
You mean like the terrible looking lamia? The way the serpent and human body are joined, so abruptly is just plain ugly. The only way to do it right is from the ground up.
[Module] Maogata
- Thread starter shoggi
- Start date
Swinkscalibur
Prince
Here shoggi, this is the latest updated file (as in updated since the last one I posted, I changed it in my last post too)
View attachment 260680
This is another unofficial version, use the one in the first post as this is only posted for development purposes.
Also, this is the working list of Infusions as of this latest file...
Are you volunteering, cause that would be great
View attachment 260680
This is another unofficial version, use the one in the first post as this is only posted for development purposes.
Also, this is the working list of Infusions as of this latest file...
Spoiler :
per combat win, +50% experienceAre you volunteering, cause that would be great
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Werewolf and Lizard would be bad choices; Far better would be the Musteval or Gnoll (Gnoll would be best, IMO).
But yes, that's what's intended I believe. The issue is none of us are exactly artists.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Bah, you mean like Esvath posted? I hate that. The entire skin of a lamia is NOT scaled. It is half woman, half snake... Not all snake.
Quickfix. Included Swinkscaliburs changes for the chaos infusion and fixed an error i made in the python file.
New version in the first post:
0.3.1
About art: Yes, i tried to go the werewolf route. But i didn't have any clue what i was actually doing. Let's say the end result wasn't pretty.
I still have hopes that somebody with a lot more knowledge in 3D art than me jumps to the rescue.
New version in the first post:
0.3.1
About art: Yes, i tried to go the werewolf route. But i didn't have any clue what i was actually doing. Let's say the end result wasn't pretty.
I still have hopes that somebody with a lot more knowledge in 3D art than me jumps to the rescue.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,466
Was it a pink armless model stuck between werewolf floating hands?
inuyashasama
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 195
No, I think the portions are fine, it's just the way the snake body abruptly gives way to human. It looks like someone cut the torso off a person and dropped it on top of a snake tail
.I know I shouldn't be complaining when I have no artistic ability whatsoever xD
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Ah, like having some scales go up the back and stomach a bit? That I could live with... But I doubt I'm capable of it.
I read it agains.. still very nice 
as for the voices of Mana : I wanted to say that some can become powerful. But there will be very few powerful ones.
As a rule, one makes many adepts, some mages and up to 8archmages (Arch+lich).
Because you destroy the mana nodes, your early voices will be powerful, but the next ones will have to go farther and farther to get some special promotions.
Incidentaly, the Maogata will have a real incentive to build the "rites of Ogma" to have a second generation of mana nodes + as they destroyed most of their nodes, they will have maybe more chances to get more nodes.
About tierIV units :
I forgot there were shadows and marksmen (so +8 for them : total : 16)
(instead of 16 + 8 archmage/lich + 4 High priest + 4immortal + 4phalanx +4X-bow + as many as you want arquebuse = 40+ arquebuses)
And their champion (spirit of the pride) can only upgrade to.. Fury, that comes in the Divine tech line ... way out of usual research path.
Of course, all can get 4shadowriders if Esus state religion, and 4 druid or paladin or eilodon depending on alignement.
I think, maybe you could replace Xbow by a flurry-type of unit (as the Ljosalfars).
And maybe give them some Immortal UU (with only a %chance of immortality as the Sidar?).
My 0.2
as for the voices of Mana : I wanted to say that some can become powerful. But there will be very few powerful ones.
As a rule, one makes many adepts, some mages and up to 8archmages (Arch+lich).
Because you destroy the mana nodes, your early voices will be powerful, but the next ones will have to go farther and farther to get some special promotions.
Incidentaly, the Maogata will have a real incentive to build the "rites of Ogma" to have a second generation of mana nodes + as they destroyed most of their nodes, they will have maybe more chances to get more nodes.
About tierIV units :
I forgot there were shadows and marksmen (so +8 for them : total : 16)
(instead of 16 + 8 archmage/lich + 4 High priest + 4immortal + 4phalanx +4X-bow + as many as you want arquebuse = 40+ arquebuses)
And their champion (spirit of the pride) can only upgrade to.. Fury, that comes in the Divine tech line ... way out of usual research path.
Of course, all can get 4shadowriders if Esus state religion, and 4 druid or paladin or eilodon depending on alignement.
I think, maybe you could replace Xbow by a flurry-type of unit (as the Ljosalfars).
And maybe give them some Immortal UU (with only a %chance of immortality as the Sidar?).
Spoiler dumb ideas that don't work :
another random thinking :
As for the Sidar (semi-immortal promotion) and the Jotnar (ageing), the Maogata seems to rely heavily on upgrading former units and losing an old unit is a bigger loss for them than the usual other civs.
(as you get special promotions from the hunt, you NEED to upgrade those units to a better version as the better version would not have said promotions.)
So : what about a wonder, or a national wonder that works as the former leonardo workshop : can give civ-wide reduction to upgrade costs : -20% (like a small igenuity bonus)
If it is too powerful to be allowed for every civ :
What about a UB for the Maogata (need 4 training yards AND 4 hunter's hall) : give -10% to upgrade cost.
(with 8 cities, one can hope to get -20%, with 12, -30%...Etc ...needs 20 cities to get the equivalent of ingenuity)
The Moagata don't have any weapons promotion..right ?
So why not allow them to still have a way to become better :
I can think of two options :
-use the ageing mechanisme : becoming older, the units becomes smarter : they become more powerful : use some boni less powerful than the jotnar, but still interesting? (immune to FS, +1strength, +20%withdrawal...Etc)
-use the auto-acquire on level : you already proposed it. But I think that what you proposed does not compensate for losing the ability to get weapon promotions : I say that because immune to magic is not really strong for melee combat (save against elemental and holy/death and not even really strong) and removing hell terrain is not a combat bonus.
(well : I haven't played them yet, so maybe I'm wrong) :
What about automatically getting the strong promotion on level 6 or 8 ? maybe only for the melee line. or valor ...Etc
EDIT : about siege ... I thought again about it : why not have them be able to build some "Mammoth Herd"... (4
; cost : as a catapult, no upgrade) with ivory and ranger-tech (+ can be upgraded from elephant and mammoth) :
can cast a spell "mad charge" : 15% reduction in nearby city defense, loses 25% health...
The lore : the Maogata learned how to control and aim the mad charge of wounded Mammoths to lay waste to their ennemy cities, up until the herd becomes too thin and escape the hunter leading them.
Have the "mamoth herd" have -20%heal rate. They cannot be healed unless one takes a Great Healer, in a city with apothecary or a healing potion.
The aim is to make the mad mamoth be only useable 4-5 times to batter the defense until the unit dies.
I propose this as an expendable way to demolish ennemy cultural defense bonus. Thus they have an unique mechanisme.
I thought it might not be too unlore-ish with maogata.
As for the Sidar (semi-immortal promotion) and the Jotnar (ageing), the Maogata seems to rely heavily on upgrading former units and losing an old unit is a bigger loss for them than the usual other civs.
(as you get special promotions from the hunt, you NEED to upgrade those units to a better version as the better version would not have said promotions.)
So : what about a wonder, or a national wonder that works as the former leonardo workshop : can give civ-wide reduction to upgrade costs : -20% (like a small igenuity bonus)
If it is too powerful to be allowed for every civ :
What about a UB for the Maogata (need 4 training yards AND 4 hunter's hall) : give -10% to upgrade cost.
(with 8 cities, one can hope to get -20%, with 12, -30%...Etc ...needs 20 cities to get the equivalent of ingenuity)
The Moagata don't have any weapons promotion..right ?
So why not allow them to still have a way to become better :
I can think of two options :
-use the ageing mechanisme : becoming older, the units becomes smarter : they become more powerful : use some boni less powerful than the jotnar, but still interesting? (immune to FS, +1strength, +20%withdrawal...Etc)
-use the auto-acquire on level : you already proposed it. But I think that what you proposed does not compensate for losing the ability to get weapon promotions : I say that because immune to magic is not really strong for melee combat (save against elemental and holy/death and not even really strong) and removing hell terrain is not a combat bonus.
(well : I haven't played them yet, so maybe I'm wrong) :
What about automatically getting the strong promotion on level 6 or 8 ? maybe only for the melee line. or valor ...Etc
EDIT : about siege ... I thought again about it : why not have them be able to build some "Mammoth Herd"... (4
; cost : as a catapult, no upgrade) with ivory and ranger-tech (+ can be upgraded from elephant and mammoth) : can cast a spell "mad charge" : 15% reduction in nearby city defense, loses 25% health...
The lore : the Maogata learned how to control and aim the mad charge of wounded Mammoths to lay waste to their ennemy cities, up until the herd becomes too thin and escape the hunter leading them.
Have the "mamoth herd" have -20%heal rate. They cannot be healed unless one takes a Great Healer, in a city with apothecary or a healing potion.
The aim is to make the mad mamoth be only useable 4-5 times to batter the defense until the unit dies.
I propose this as an expendable way to demolish ennemy cultural defense bonus. Thus they have an unique mechanisme.
I thought it might not be too unlore-ish with maogata.
Jabie
Wanted in Monte Carlo...
In the Age of Ice scenario there were Panthers. So far these have not really graced Fall From Heaven. It might be quite to nifty to nick them for a UU for the Maogota Civ.
Furries don't violate the princess rule. 8 year old girls don't have pictures of furries on their walls. That would be kind of weird. Well, at least, if it's the furry pictures i think of 
(Vampires on the other hand totally violate the princess rule )
edit/ seems like opera and I think of radically different things when we hear the word "furries" /end edit
About the innate abilities (that's what i call them) they gain at certain levels:
I'm not against more of them.
They also have an age requirement, which i forgot to mention, which mostly is there so that you don't get them too early, if you luck out with some unit and gain levels rather fast.
The destroying hell terrain thing was more of a mechanical decision, because they have no access to sanctify. So now, technically every unit can destroy hell terrain, as long as it has a high enough level. Though it still is in flavor for them.
Thinking about adding two additional innate ability promotions that grant 1 perception each.
First one, combined with a Voice of Mana with a Spirit infusion can lead Units into Sidar cities (they need six perception for that: 2 base + 3 spirit infusion + 1 innate). second one allows the unit to travel at least through medium mist alone.
I still think the hunt should make up for losing out on weapons, with the chance of being more powerful.
I like the Leonardo's workshop idea. I think i will do something like that. Have to think about the implementation and flavor for it.
Archery Units will change. I have some ideas for them.
Tier 4 Units. Maybe i will add another unit that the spirit of the pride can upgrade too. It's just that the concept of the phalanx didn't really fit that well for them and the immortal role was filled by the spirit itself.
High priests: Have to think about it. Not to fond of the idea.
Mammoth charge: Could work and is in flavor. Still pretty hard to find enough siege "engines". Especially if you regularly run them to death.
Panthers: weren't there panthers at some point in normal ffh? i think i remember there being some.
Anyway, their mounted line are actually Maogata versions of Tigers (replacing horseman) and Saber-tooth Tigers (replacing knight).
I can imagine another Cat there. Don't know if it is really necessary though.
Maybe it will be necessary to find another mounted unit once RifE makes its unit revamp. But for now, the two cats are enough.
(Vampires on the other hand totally violate the princess rule
)edit/ seems like opera and I think of radically different things when we hear the word "furries" /end edit
About the innate abilities (that's what i call them) they gain at certain levels:
I'm not against more of them.
They also have an age requirement, which i forgot to mention, which mostly is there so that you don't get them too early, if you luck out with some unit and gain levels rather fast.
The destroying hell terrain thing was more of a mechanical decision, because they have no access to sanctify. So now, technically every unit can destroy hell terrain, as long as it has a high enough level. Though it still is in flavor for them.
Thinking about adding two additional innate ability promotions that grant 1 perception each.
First one, combined with a Voice of Mana with a Spirit infusion can lead Units into Sidar cities (they need six perception for that: 2 base + 3 spirit infusion + 1 innate). second one allows the unit to travel at least through medium mist alone.
I still think the hunt should make up for losing out on weapons, with the chance of being more powerful.
I like the Leonardo's workshop idea. I think i will do something like that. Have to think about the implementation and flavor for it.
Archery Units will change. I have some ideas for them.
Tier 4 Units. Maybe i will add another unit that the spirit of the pride can upgrade too. It's just that the concept of the phalanx didn't really fit that well for them and the immortal role was filled by the spirit itself.
High priests: Have to think about it. Not to fond of the idea.
Mammoth charge: Could work and is in flavor. Still pretty hard to find enough siege "engines". Especially if you regularly run them to death.
Panthers: weren't there panthers at some point in normal ffh? i think i remember there being some.
Anyway, their mounted line are actually Maogata versions of Tigers (replacing horseman) and Saber-tooth Tigers (replacing knight).
I can imagine another Cat there. Don't know if it is really necessary though.
Maybe it will be necessary to find another mounted unit once RifE makes its unit revamp. But for now, the two cats are enough.
@Shoggi ..
great.
I don't know the spirit of the pride mechanism, and furthermore, I don't know yet the Hunt's reward ... so that's why I proposed those ideas of innate abilities.
For the Highpriest.. I was roughly aware that it's not a good idea. I was just brainstorming aimlessly
For the "Mammoth Charge" ... well... I hadn't thougth of that... maybe make it costs double as a catapult to show it's hard to find enough "engines"? But ivory ressource shows a live elephant roaming in the wild that's the source of the "engines" !
(I just proposed it as a fun mechanism + to have a way to break into those +150% defense kuriotates cities; I also proposed it to be at the ranger-tech so that it is not an early game strategy and relatively low strength so you Have to protect them. Making them living + 2mvt should compensate.)
Well, for innate habilities, I'll wait to play them once (or read all about the hunt rewards /stackability) before trying some ideas...
I don't want to say too much stupid things in the same day
great.
I don't know the spirit of the pride mechanism, and furthermore, I don't know yet the Hunt's reward ... so that's why I proposed those ideas of innate abilities.
For the Highpriest.. I was roughly aware that it's not a good idea. I was just brainstorming aimlessly
For the "Mammoth Charge" ... well... I hadn't thougth of that... maybe make it costs double as a catapult to show it's hard to find enough "engines"? But ivory ressource shows a live elephant roaming in the wild
that's the source of the "engines" ! (I just proposed it as a fun mechanism + to have a way to break into those +150% defense kuriotates cities; I also proposed it to be at the ranger-tech so that it is not an early game strategy and relatively low strength so you Have to protect them. Making them living + 2mvt should compensate.)
Well, for innate habilities, I'll wait to play them once (or read all about the hunt rewards /stackability) before trying some ideas...
I don't want to say too much stupid things in the same day
There is no problem with some brainstorming. I like hearing ideas of other people, making me think of things i hadn't considered yet.
Every Cajar promotion (that's what you get for killing a prey) gives you +1 Strength and +2 First strikes.
First one makes the unit better than bronze weapons. second one makes it better than iron weapons. third brings you roughly on equal with mithril, with 3 strength and 6 first strikes combined.
You only have to find your prey to get all of that.
Spirit of the Pride is a low strength immortal. worse than the champion, but hey, its immortal. It's supposed to symbolize the nine lives of cats. Played with the idea of giving them 9 stackable immortal promotions, but that was too much hassle for too little gain.
The Fury is supposed to represent a SotP on it's last life, being super aggressive and planning to go out with a bang.
And i totally misread your idea about the mammoths. That's what i get for reading too fast. I thought you meant that they had to be captured from the elephants or mammoths running around. My comment of not finding enough of them was based around that. Though it still made some sense in your original context. Still like the idea.
Every Cajar promotion (that's what you get for killing a prey) gives you +1 Strength and +2 First strikes.
First one makes the unit better than bronze weapons. second one makes it better than iron weapons. third brings you roughly on equal with mithril, with 3 strength and 6 first strikes combined.
You only have to find your prey to get all of that.
Spirit of the Pride is a low strength immortal. worse than the champion, but hey, its immortal. It's supposed to symbolize the nine lives of cats. Played with the idea of giving them 9 stackable immortal promotions, but that was too much hassle for too little gain.
The Fury is supposed to represent a SotP on it's last life, being super aggressive and planning to go out with a bang.
And i totally misread your idea about the mammoths. That's what i get for reading too fast. I thought you meant that they had to be captured from the elephants or mammoths running around. My comment of not finding enough of them was based around that. Though it still made some sense in your original context. Still like the idea.
some questions about "the hunt"
1) do worker, voices, (GP?), ...etc count to calculate the number of "preys" ?
2) how are you planing to make "preys" in late game, when there are very few barbs/animals left in the world?
3) can only the melee line hunt or all maogata unit ? (ie : is the strategical difference between recon/melee/mounted for the Maogata? : is the hunt a way to compensate for metal weapons (for melee) or a moagata trait, melee being different from recon due to another mechanisme)
4) has each unit a designed prey, or can any unit kill any prey ? : it can snowball really fast : 1-2 units get a Cajar promotion by ganging on the prey, then they'll have an easier time to get the next one, and even easier time to kill the next...etc. Only loss is when other civs kill the preys.
another question : will some unit have a dispell ability ? (to accomodate the initially converted mana nodes) or will the Maogata have to adapte their voices to what exists on Erebus ?
last : are mana Infusion stackable ? or can each unit have only one of each Infusion ?
1) do worker, voices, (GP?), ...etc count to calculate the number of "preys" ?
2) how are you planing to make "preys" in late game, when there are very few barbs/animals left in the world?
3) can only the melee line hunt or all maogata unit ? (ie : is the strategical difference between recon/melee/mounted for the Maogata? : is the hunt a way to compensate for metal weapons (for melee) or a moagata trait, melee being different from recon due to another mechanisme)
4) has each unit a designed prey, or can any unit kill any prey ? : it can snowball really fast : 1-2 units get a Cajar promotion by ganging on the prey, then they'll have an easier time to get the next one, and even easier time to kill the next...etc. Only loss is when other civs kill the preys.
another question : will some unit have a dispell ability ? (to accomodate the initially converted mana nodes) or will the Maogata have to adapte their voices to what exists on Erebus ?
last : are mana Infusion stackable ? or can each unit have only one of each Infusion ?
Torugu
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2009
- Messages
- 382
Haven't played them yet (will once I have mopped up the remaining two civilizations in my Khazad game) so I'm not sure if this is fitting their flavour:
What about giving high level melee units access to a promotion which allows them to "bombard" city defences for 5% or 10%? The idea is that seasoned Maogata warriors could wear down defences using hit-and-run tactics without being caught up in prolonged combat..
What about giving high level melee units access to a promotion which allows them to "bombard" city defences for 5% or 10%? The idea is that seasoned Maogata warriors could wear down defences using hit-and-run tactics without being caught up in prolonged combat..
1) Non-combatants count for the number of preys the worldspell produces.
2) I have been thinking about removing the limit of the worldspell to only target barb units. It has been in because they are mainly supposed to hunt animals, but it could be argued that other sentient species make for interesting prey to hunt.
3) All Unit Classes can hunt (technically even workers could hunt, if they get some strength somehow). This is, because they are basically all hunters by nature, even if they spend most of their time doing something else.
4) The prey promotion isn't tied to a specific unit you control if that is what you mean.
Any of your units can hunt any prey. Yes, it could probably snowball. If it does (still playtesting needed) i have ideas to limit that, too.
Dispel: No Dispel. You have to live with what you get if you use the wild mana game option or capture enemy nodes.
Yes, that makes it practically impossible for them to get the tower of master victory (or at least very hard), but that doesn't make much sense for them anyway.
Stackable Infusions: No.
Low strength bombard ability for melee: Could work. though they have more of a defender role. If i do that, it will be after RifEs unit pass is done. Then i will have to shift units around anyway, and i have some place to fit in a hit-and-run unit better.
2) I have been thinking about removing the limit of the worldspell to only target barb units. It has been in because they are mainly supposed to hunt animals, but it could be argued that other sentient species make for interesting prey to hunt.
3) All Unit Classes can hunt (technically even workers could hunt, if they get some strength somehow). This is, because they are basically all hunters by nature, even if they spend most of their time doing something else.
4) The prey promotion isn't tied to a specific unit you control if that is what you mean.
Any of your units can hunt any prey. Yes, it could probably snowball. If it does (still playtesting needed) i have ideas to limit that, too.
Dispel: No Dispel. You have to live with what you get if you use the wild mana game option or capture enemy nodes.
Yes, that makes it practically impossible for them to get the tower of master victory (or at least very hard), but that doesn't make much sense for them anyway.
Stackable Infusions: No.
Low strength bombard ability for melee: Could work. though they have more of a defender role. If i do that, it will be after RifEs unit pass is done. Then i will have to shift units around anyway, and i have some place to fit in a hit-and-run unit better.
good good good...
you've really thought it all
maybe the early prey can only be animals, then animal and barbs (bhall, savage), then third (or fourth) hunt the prey can be other civ's unit : thus you'll be incited to wage war... just to get some more preys
I'm really thinking of using Esus recon units... hidden nationality + hidden makes for a very good way to hunt some other civs units
you've really thought it all
maybe the early prey can only be animals, then animal and barbs (bhall, savage), then third (or fourth) hunt the prey can be other civ's unit : thus you'll be incited to wage war... just to get some more preys
I'm really thinking of using Esus recon units... hidden nationality + hidden makes for a very good way to hunt some other civs units
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
