[MODULE] Populated Cottages

[armyofwhispers]

May I suggest the name 'Ghost Town' as the Scion replacement?

Seems obvious when you think about it.

 

[odalrick]

May I suggest the name 'Ghost Town' as the Scion replacement?

Seems obvious when you think about it.

I'm not planning to replace cottages for Scions.

 

[Cyrusfan]

c) Why not expand the urbanization model?
cottages: Marketplaces go from 3 gold to 1 or 2 gold+1 gold/cottage
Monument gains 1 culture/cottage.
hamlet: City Hall building gives free specialist/hamlet

Libraries, pagan temples, artisan's workshops, forges etc... are all buildings that could provide the village/town scaling, probably in paying off primarily in gold/commerce and culture.

Such a design would, of course lower the tile bonuses even more.

For example:
Theater: +1 per cottage/village/hamlet/town/enclave
Elder Council: +1 per village/hamlet/town/enclave
Marketplace: +1 per hamlet/town/enclave
Forge (or something): +1 per town/enclave
<pick a Kuriotates UB>: +1 (more) specialist per enclave (their cities are supposed to be enormous anyway)

Cottage -3 -2 0
Village -2 -1 +1
Hamlet -1 0 +1
Town 0 0 +2
Enclave 0 0 +3

 

[Valkrionn]

Unfortunately, that's not possible in current code. And wouldn't be, without a LOT of extra loops which I don't want to add.

Unless you make a dummy specialist with no yields, have the cottage grant it, and then increase it's yields with certain buildings.

 

[Swinkscalibur]

That secondary option sounds like would work perfectly. How difficult is it to add another specialist?

Strike that, most of what he suggested can be done with 4 specialists

• "Cottager" - given by a cottage, no benefit, +1 with theatre.
• "Hamlet-man" - given by a hamlet, no benefit, +1 with theatre, +1 with Elder Council
• "Villager" - given by a village, no benefit, +1 with theatre, +1 with Elder Council, +1 with Market
• "Townsman" - given by a town, no benefit, +1 with theatre, +1 with Elder Council, +1 with Market, +1 with Forge

I'm not sure how you could do this

<pick a Kuriotates UB>: +1 (more) specialist per enclave (their cities are supposed to be enormous anyway)

and even after looking at this I don't think I like it anyway. I like the increased flexibility of the current set-up.

 

[Valkrionn]

That secondary option sounds like would work perfectly. How difficult is it to add another specialist?

Strike that, most of what he suggested can be done with 4 specialists

• "Cottager" - given by a cottage, no benefit, +1 with theatre.
• "Hamlet-man" - given by a hamlet, no benefit, +1 with theatre, +1 with Elder Council
• "Villager" - given by a village, no benefit, +1 with theatre, +1 with Elder Council, +1 with Market
• "Townsman" - given by a town, no benefit, +1 with theatre, +1 with Elder Council, +1 with Market, +1 with Forge

I'm not sure how you could do this

It's very easy to add a new specialist. Not sure you'd want to do it with 4 specialists, though.

And you couldn't do the last idea; Code doesn't work that way.

 

[Swinkscalibur]

side note. Isn't it a bit weird that a hamlet forms around a cottage? Traditionally the evolution was more like, Mill -> Hamlet -> Village -> Town. I have never heard of a Town developing around a cottage. Just a thought.

 

[Cyrusfan]

It's very easy to add a new specialist. Not sure you'd want to do it with 4 specialists, though.

Okay, maybe that's not the way to go about it. I'd just like to see the higher forms of cottage be better in some way (than they are currently) as they presumably represent a lot more people available to work in the city.

 

[Valkrionn]

Personally, I'd only give the affect to Towns. A cottage is one house; Not going to be enough excess population to send to the city. Same with the Hamlet. Village could be large enough, but I'd rationalize it by saying that a Village is just reaching the point of having an internal economy, whereas a Town is able to take part in the national economy.

 

[odalrick]

Would it be horrible to make the specialist given by cottages be the lowly Citizen?

Assuming a building or two can give the bonus yields. (I don't think the bonus yields can be limited to a single city, so it would be attached to a few national wonders, but the principle it the same.)

Personally, I'd only give the affect to Towns. A cottage is one house; Not going to be enough excess population to send to the city. Same with the Hamlet. Village could be large enough, but I'd rationalize it by saying that a Village is just reaching the point of having an internal economy, whereas a Town is able to take part in the national economy.

What I'd really like is to have the specialists given be fractional, with only the Town providing a full specialist. Cottages would start at 1/6 specialist.

 

[Valkrionn]

Would it be horrible to make the specialist given by cottages be the lowly Citizen?

Assuming a building or two can give the bonus yields. (I don't think the bonus yields can be limited to a single city, so it would be attached to a few national wonders, but the principle it the same.)



What I'd really like is to have the specialists given be fractional, with only the Town providing a full specialist. Cottages would start at 1/6 specialist.

I think bonus yields on specialists can be done per city; Don't some wonders do that?

As for the partial specialist... I could probably add that, but then I'd need to allow it to go above 1, as well. I'd honestly prefer to just keep it simple, so it can't be used that way.

 

[Cyrusfan]

What I'd really like is to have the specialists given be fractional, with only the Town providing a full specialist. Cottages would start at 1/6 specialist.

Is that because you can fit a maximum of 6 cottages into a fat X? What would the progression be-1/6, 1/3, 1/2, 1?

How does the mechanism for counting cottages work? Does it just make a tally of Villages or better, or does it count the upgrades separately?

 

[Valkrionn]

Is that because you can fit a maximum of 6 cottages into a fat X? What would the progression be-1/6, 1/3, 1/2, 1?

How does the mechanism for counting cottages work? Does it just make a tally of Villages or better, or does it count the upgrades separately?

It doesn't work, because it doesn't exist.

However, were I to add the code, it would just grant a partial specialist; Any whole number is what's used in the city. So you could have the cottage (1/6), a hamlet (1/3, or 2/6) and a Village (1/2, or 3/6) and get 1 specialist.

I most likely won't add it, though.... Because when adding support for decimals, I'd have to add support for whole numbers. And I'd rather void any possibility of an improvement granting 3 (or more) specialists to the nearest city... It's just too strong.

 

[odalrick]

Is that because you can fit a maximum of 6 cottages into a fat X? What would the progression be-1/6, 1/3, 1/2, 1?

Yes. I'd probably go 1/6, 2/6, 4/6, 1, so just a slightly better Hamlet than you said.

I most likely won't add it, though.... Because when adding support for decimals, I'd have to add support for whole numbers. And I'd rather void any possibility of an improvement granting 3 (or more) specialists to the nearest city... It's just too strong.

I won't pretend to understand the problems with implementing decimal support from a coding point of view, but this seems like a spurious argument. You can already set Cottages to provide 204060. Or give Warriors 30. If you want to cheat, there's nothing stopping you.

That said as long as I don't have to touch the c++ code, I'm happy. Good job.

 

[Calavente]

Real nice idea.

be maybe make it so only towns give a free specialiste :
cottage :+1
hamlet : -1 +2
village : -1 -1 +3
town : -2 -2 +4 +1specialist

I propose that so you always have a little incentive to work the tile
In your proposition, it is a no-brainer to build cottage everywhere on poor yield tiles. As they don't need to be worked to give the specialist, you don't even care if the yields are bad and thus you can have size 1-to size 14 cities with 6free specialists and not a citizen working for less than 2food.
With the current proposal, I would never work those cottage tiles while still building as much as I can.

So I propose to have some yields so you may decide to work the tile even if it is not great... and at the time you get the free specialist, you can work the tile that became a full-commerce tile, but without any other output.

Here is the reasoning :

at first the cottage can send the city the yields of the tile + a little gold.
as population increases, they need some food to sustain themselves but they buy more from the city.
when it is a village, some food is still needed, and they need more construction material if there is any on place (a plain flatland won't send any yields back to the nearby city but plains hills and grassland flatlands would continue).
When you have a town, they need a lot of food for themselve and cannot export anymore, It is the same for building materials : if there is any, they are using it or exchanging to neighbourgs for a bit of food. In exchange, they make a lot of commerce with the nearby city if merchants come to them (ie: citizen working the tile ) and furthermore they send their brightest sons and daughters to the city to help the empire.

 

[Almagafor]

As opposed to the idea of the improvements generating less food, might it instead be unhealth?

 

[Calavente]

that's a nice idea... it would totally go ith representing the effect of "need other tiles for support"...
cottage :+1
hamlet : -1 +2
village : -1 +3 +1specialist +1
town : -2 +4 +2specialists +3
or something like that
that way each specialist is not completly "free" for the city,
but even the second specialist costs less than a citizen already devoted to a specialist slot (consumes 2+ 1 + 1) (2 is worth 2 consumption only when there are no excedent )

 

[Valkrionn]

Yes. I'd probably go 1/6, 2/6, 4/6, 1, so just a slightly better Hamlet than you said.



I won't pretend to understand the problems with implementing decimal support from a coding point of view, but this seems like a spurious argument. You can already set Cottages to provide 204060. Or give Warriors 30. If you want to cheat, there's nothing stopping you.

That said as long as I don't have to touch the c++ code, I'm happy. Good job.

It probably is, I just really don't want that abused. And I know it would be, eventually, as even I would be tempted to use it.

 

[Milaga]

Would it be horrible to make the specialist given by cottages be the lowly Citizen?

Can you specifically state which specialist is free in this case? I know buildings can give free specialists (and you can state which type or keep it free form.) But I don't know if buildings can give specific free specialists.

If they could, then you have hamlets provide +1 citizen and villages provide +2. Then certain buildings might rely on having citizens working in order to provide their effect. After all, what good is a market if no one goes there to buy anything? Or a library if no one reads the books? Or a theater if no one attends the plays?

 

[odalrick]

Can you specifically state which specialist is free in this case? I know buildings can give free specialists (and you can state which type or keep it free form.) But I don't know if buildings can give specific free specialists.

Buildings can give specific free specialists, look at the Great Library for an example.

For Improvements to give free, specific specialists, you have to use the very latest RifE patch... or even the next release,not sure if it's in the latest patch..