Monarch Level

[Rayjr]

So I am attempting monarch level after winning two prince games in a row, and in the early stages I am just getting my butt handed to me. I know its frowned upon in these forums but I will quit a game early if I feel there is no way I can win. I have read many of these threads and with all of your help I have been able to move this high in difficulty now I feel like I am stuck and am seeking advice on what early strategies I should employ.

I usually try to found a religion thats always been my first tech hunt I just figure as I expand I will need the cash, should I skip this and research either worker functions or unit advances first.

Is it critically important that I enter each city every turn or every few turns to check what squares my cities are working.

I love the chop rush method but I try to conserve my forrest for wonders should I replace that with using the chop rush for early units and settlers.

My standard early production list has always been warrior, warrior, warrior, settler, worker, best defense unit, and wonder. Should I skip the wonder or build the worker or settler earlier. or perhaps do the worker second have bronze working and chop rush the settler.

How early should I attack my neighbor or should I let him grow convert to his religion and try to get him to give me techs.

I dunno I hate getting my butt kicked lol but I am glad the game is challenging any advice would be helpful. thanks

 

[BubbaYeti]

I am also just moving up from prince to monarch. It sounds like you have a standard opening strategy that you use routinely. My sense is this will no longer work on Monarch. Not that your strategy is bad, but one stock starting procedure is not going to cut it anymore. I try to ask myself the following question now when I start the game (or a few moves in after some exploration): What is the most effective starting strategy I can use given the civilization/leader I am and my starting environment (ie. terrain, opponents)? Then my starting moves flow from the answer to that question.

Example: i am an industrious leader (fast wonders), with a high commerce square I can work early (fast research). This begs for some sort of oracle slingshot. Another example, I am inca and I meet an opposing civ whose capitol is nearby--quecha rush and fast expansion. Or I have mysticism and a good commerce square--grap an early religion or two. Tailor your start to the situation.

 

[rddc05]

I agree with BubbaYeti, although in almost all situations I would build a worker after the second (possibly after the first) warrior. My best advice would be to take your time, look at the situation as it develops in the first few turns, put together a plan and stick to it.

 

[Firebot]

Always work towards what you are given on your first turn or your civ's strengths. Early religion shouldn't even be tried at all unless you are a spiritual leader, and even then it may do you more harm then good by alienating all the other civs (I never convert to a religion unless I know I can deflect an invasion). In my current Monarch game (test game for GotM3), my starting position was actually quite good at first glance, 3 ivory tiles and a wheat tile. I researched hunting which I never ever do right away in most of my games, and decided right from that point that I would rush straight to construction for elephants while having my capital and the city planned next to it specialize as production cities. I had no stone, no marble, no copper, no horses, and 2 civs were so close I only managed to build 3 cities before being sandwiched. After some carefully selected tech trades, I had gotten construction and started my vast army of elephants with 1 or 2 catapults as back up. I lucked out with Iron Working showing Iron near my capital when I was positioning for war, and reinforced my invading army with 1-2 swordsmen and axemen, but the point is I optimized what I was given, and completly destroyed France with their archers and the odd axeman/pikeman with my elephants . I was then well positioned with new cities and a good economy and proceeded with teching to samurais for my second invasion (my main strategic goal when using Tokugawa as it makes the most use of it's UU and traits).

I've also learned to carefully choose my tiles after reading a post by a 200,000 points player in the GotM threads, where he would switch what tile is worked each turn to optimize. It's sometimes better to work an ocean tile for the 2 commerce then a 3 food tile or 3 hammer tile if you need to shave off a critical turn or two in learning a tech.

There should never be a planned strict strategy that is used in all games - there are some basic tendencies like I will usually build a worker as my first unit (or steal a worker from a neighbouring civ) and I will usually try to get the Great Library, but nothing set in stone. I'm kind of surprised you won Prince games using a strict strategy, as that was where I first learned it just wasn't efficient.

The only wonder I go for and chop rush like mad is Great Library, the other wonders I will only do if the opportunity is there

 

[Chizzard]

go to the strategy article forum and check out the piece named optimum early expansion. It describes the production order for fast expansion on Emperor level games and mainly focuses on using choppers. it certainly will help

 

[Rayjr]

thanks for the help. I did employ some advice last night in a new game.... I faired better but my score was still half of everyone elses. I decided to go with the romans for the early game preatorian rush. The squeeze has already started from the neighboring civs but not too bad. I have three well placed cities and I ignored the religion all together this time around. I think I am going to play this one out for a while and see how it goes.

 

[voek]

some direct comments

don't go for that early religion

don't built 3 warriors, settler and worker

(you realy do that?)

for example, better option is worker, chop worker, warrior, chop setler

If you chop, do it right.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

thanks for the help. I did employ some advice last night in a new game.... I faired better but my score was still half of everyone elses. I decided to go with the romans for the early game preatorian rush. The squeeze has already started from the neighboring civs but not too bad. I have three well placed cities and I ignored the religion all together this time around. I think I am going to play this one out for a while and see how it goes.

Agree with most of what other people have written. A couple of points to add:
1. On monarch and above, it's likely you will be behind the other civs for the early part of the game. They start with more units than you, and they can research quicker than you. It's mathematically all but impossible for you not to be behind, until there's been sufficient time for your superior tactics to have taken effect...
2. You said you build 3 warriors first. Big mistake on > prince. Your city is in very little danger of attack for the first 20-30 turns, and by delaying building a settler/worker so long, you're delaying your civ's development. And on Monarch, the AI fills up all the spare land *really* quickly if you don't fill it first. I might build a warrior first, but only really to allow the city to grow to size 2 before I swap to worker or settler.
3. Strong views on religion. Actually it is perfectly possible to win on Monarch by going for an early religion (and it's even possible to do so if you don't start with meditation), but it takes a lot of experience in managing your cities and economy. But early conquest can be easier
4. The real key on monarch and above is to be flexible in your strategy, decide how to play based on the strengths of your civ and the situation you find yourself in, not based on whatever strategy you've always used before.

Good luck! Prince->Monarch is a big jump.

 

[benjai]

I think maybe your build order is not optimal? Your first worker is very very late...the first things that I build are either
worker, warrior, warrior*,settler*, worker
or warrior, worker, warrior*, settler*, worker
All involving chopping. Chopping is simply the most efficient. The * indicates that you build the warrior while chopping, and switch to settler the turn the chop comes. That way your city can grow continuously whilst still churning out the settler.

You don't need that many early wonders...1 is pretty good already, 2 is very good and if you can manage 3 that is incredible. Sometimes I may not even bother depending on how many forests I have. I find that 3 or maybe even 2 forests is enough for a wonder.

In terms of religion, again, getting religions takes up valuable tech. Its going to be easier to just take someones holy city. Sometimes I beeline to iron working, build a few swords and take out the neighbor quickly. Presto you have your religion plus a few citys! Depending on when you attack, the religion may have spread around to a few other civs giving you an added bonus. I personally would rather kill off a neighbor before that even happens though.

 

[Rayjr]

from all the advice on an early working I guess assuming I have lots of forrests that I should get bronze working first thing.

and the production order that I stated in the start of this thread isn't neccesarily what I always do. I like most of you vary the starting stradegy I just felt if I gave a detailed example the comments would be more helpful and it appears I was right.

 

[benjai]

from all the advice on an early working I guess assuming I have lots of forrests that I should get bronze working first thing.

and the production order that I stated in the start of this thread isn't neccesarily what I always do. I like most of you vary the starting stradegy I just felt if I gave a detailed example the comments would be more helpful and it appears I was right.

Exactly, getting bronze instead of a religion is much much more valuable IMO

 

[Boppo]

Exactly, getting bronze instead of a religion is much much more valuable IMO

I agree. If you are lucky enough to have Copper nearby you are then set with strong units as well. I'll skip Archery unless I can not find copper that I can use. After BW and one or two techs to give my workers something to do I head for Alphabet. Then you can trade and get the techs you did not research yourself.

 

[playshogi]

I would recommend playing on a standard, pangea map as the Inca. Build a couple quechua then a barracks and then quechua exclusively. Don't build a worker! You'll capture many! Research BW and AH to find out where copper and horses are. Find your opponents, then surround the nearest 2 capitals and/or holy city with 7 quechua each, but don't declare war yet. Wait for their workers to improve the city! Hopefully, you can capture a holy city that is nearby. I figure you need 2.5 quechua per fortified archer to be certain of winning, when you are ready to strike. If the AI has more than 2 archers defending the city, it will attack you until only 2 remain, or it will remove 2 archers to escort a settler, even if its under attack. The ideal time to attack is just after 2 archers and settler leave the city. Take those guys out and then the city. After you capture a few cities build stonehenge and/or oracle to generate the Prophet you need for the holy city you capture. Make it your state religion and aim to build Spiral Minaret. Inca is aggressive and financial, so you have great synergy with research and warring. Using this strategy, I was able to capture 2 capitals and a holy city before I went into builder mode. I was lucky I was in the middle of the pangea and that none of my opponents were financial so they couldn't keep up in research. I was also lucky when I took time out to research divine right the Islamic holy city was the same as my Jewish holy city! Expect to fight everyone and don't worry too much about diplomacy.

 

[Matthevv]

The best strategy is always to adapt to your circumstances, and have a strategy. Always chopping for workers and settlers doesn't make sense to me. You want the trees later to make into elephants/praetorians etc. if you plan an invasion, or for a key wonder, or just as a reserve in case of attack. Using the whip (slavery) to build workers and settlers would seem a better choice, as people grow back faster than trees. If you have loads of trees and not too close neighbours, chopping out workers and settlers may be a good strategy. Try it on highlands map with raging barbarians and you will just be killed.

Probably a general rule of thumb when barbarians aren't raging would be to get an early worker, and develop the tech to allow him to improve whatever special squares you have nearby. You should aim to have the worker and the needed tech on the same turn, so he isn't sitting idle. He can go with your settler to your second city and do the same there.

As for attacking your neighbour, thats a personal choice. A lot of people take shameless advantage of the AI program, by attacking early! I would say that if you have a military technical edge, its a good idea to smite your neighbour right away. Possibly if you have just the one neighbour, and plenty of room to settle, plenty of resources and so on, it might be feasible to be peaceful, but if it looks as though there will be contention for resources or space, get in an early strike.

Probably at higher levels its better to go for bronze and iron rather than religion. The AI seems to head for Buddism and Hinduism and you are quite likely to not get them. Knowing where the iron is is pretty crucial. Having your own religion doesn't seem to be, as one will spread to you fairly soon anyway.