Monarch unfairness

[sivatipo]

I have finished civ3 all ways possible in Regent so I decided to kick it up a notch to monarch.

I do not understand the speed of the AI, its insane , my first contact with a civ they are already 5 techs ahead (i also start with the slider to 70) Its very hard to keep up afterwards since they keep antagonizing me for cash and i cant really afford to pay their prices for techs.

I dominate easily in Regent (both tech and military wise) but this level up is crazy . Any help on the tech race?

 

[sparty44]

I know the feeling, but with patience Monarch can be won. One tip I got at this forum was to set your science slider very low and build up gold to purchase techs from other civs. I found that setting the slider high at Monarch does little good to decrease the number of turns to a tech unless you have a scientific civ. So it makes more sense to build up gold, especially with the AI's advantage.

There also apparently are certain techs the AI avoids--I believe they are the ones at the bottom of the tech tree, and someone else may have specifics. Again, a tip I saw here was to go for these techs and have something to bargain with.

The other thing I found crucial is the early war against the weak neighbor. I was playing as the Iroquois and had the Americans on my continent. They were ahead on techs and pumping out settlers. Finally I said "enough" and began a war against them figuring that America was devoting all its resources to settlers and not much to defense. It proved true. I ended up taking a bunch of their cities and forcing them to sue for peace by giving me all their techs and gold and some cities to boot. Using a war to leverage techs out of a weak neighbor is crucial, IMO. Of course, you need to position yourself well for that war by having a resource (i.e., horses or iron) the other civ doesn't have or a unit advantage (i.e., Immortals).

 

[billindenver]

I agree it can be a shock. That civ probably already has contact with another civ and has swapped all possible techs, plus probably popped a few goody huts.

You HAVE to trade techs on Monarch. Early in the game, it's tough. You've got no gold, and research is slow. You must research a tech that they will not research, so that you are the first one to get it. If you get currency before them, they'll give you two techs per civ. Find all the civs on your continent, research towards currency or construction, and you'll catch up quickly. And remember, as SOON as you get currency, trade it the same turn. If you wait too long, someone else will snag it and the value will plummet.

I start with my research at 70-80% too, and often find myself many techs behind at first contact. The absolute WORST position is when you are alone on an island (or maybe stuck with one other civ on your island), and all the other civs are near each other. You'll be stuck in Ancient Era forever while they race on ahead!

 

[billindenver]

Originally posted by sparty44

The other thing I found crucial is the early war against the weak neighbor. I was playing as the Iroquois and had the Americans on my continent. They were ahead on techs and pumping out settlers. Finally I said "enough" and began a war against them figuring that America was devoting all its resources to settlers and not much to defense. It proved true. I ended up taking a bunch of their cities and forcing them to sue for peace by giving me all their techs and gold and some cities to boot. Using a war to leverage techs out of a weak neighbor is crucial, IMO. Of course, you need to position yourself well for that war by having a resource (i.e., horses or iron) the other civ doesn't have or a unit advantage (i.e., Immortals).

War can be a HUGE help. If you can take 3-4 of his cities, he'll give you almost everything he has. Wait 20 turns, repeat.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

If religious, go Mysticism-->Polytheism. If the aztecs, or you traded for Warrior Code, take Monarchy on the top of that. If you have a monopoly, and you know more than 3 civs, I can almost guarantee that you will get a lot of value for it.
France can start on mathematics at once. England can beelineg to mapmaking, and any commercial civ can go straight for Writing-->Literature and build the Great Library.

 

[smalltalk]

@sivatipo:
As you can already see, there are a lot of strategies available. Some people say, save your money and simply buy tech. Others say put science at max and sell the techs. Both emphazise diplomacy. War is yet another way of diplomacy.

If you're more the peacefull builder type, do anything to raise your income. Build roads everywhere, marketplaces, Smith's, ...

Or you might consider playing Expansionist and go pop some huts.

And of course, you are right. It is a steep step from level to level. I do know that feeling too. Consider yourself lucky. I played my first games on regent - and was thouroughly beaten. I had to step back a level and still it wasn't too easy. And I keep getting beaten, when I advance a level.

 

[cavemanf16]

I'm currently playing as the Vikings on Monarch level. I agree, Monarch is quite a bit tougher than my usual style of play on Regent (I like to pick the Scientific and Industrious Civ's). I recently found a decent strategy though by accident.

The Germans attacked me on my border with Russia. Since I've got ROP's and trades going with all the other Civ's at this point, it was pretty easy to get a few to join me in an alliance against the Germans. My counter-attack with a Bersker (Viking UU) gave me a Golden Age. Since I, like Sparty44 mentioned, dropped my tech down to 10% while in a Republic, I immediately was getting 140GP+ per turn with the Golden Age. So what did I do with all that extra cash? Shopped around for some much needed tech advances of course!

Unfortunately, someone beat me to the J.S. Bach's Cathedral and Magellan's Voyage right before I finished building both of them, so I'm still sorta screwed. Most likely I'll try to piss off either the Celts or Russia in an attempt to get in a war and grab some more land and resources. It is much tougher to balance all the dynamics of a Monarch level game than a Regent level one, but the challenge makes you a better player in the long run.

 

[Henry_X]

Some tips aren't included

_ try to get Nationalism first , it's worth a lot for the AI. If I'm playing a Scientific Civ, I sometimes pay the AI 50 gpt for the last tech(s) in the middle ages to get Nationalism first. At that point they'll be paying me 250 or more gpt. And those other civ's too.

_ If you got that advantage you'll very likely be able to research Scientific methode befor anyone else. So TOE gives another 2 techs. There I most often chose tech leading to the Hooverdam. Or replacable parts if I'm feeling threatend.

I don't research a thing until late middle ages , all trade befor.

 

[Greyhawk1]

I'm a newb working up from Chieftain. My first Warlord game was a total shock. The difficulty went up by about five orders of magnitude higher than Chieftain.

Just surviving was a struggle whereas at Chieftain it really is very easy to get ahead and stay ahead. I guess each difficulty notch is much the same, anything you tried in the previous level is probably either not going to work at all or be much less reduced in power.

I have to say that despite it being a huge change it was immense fun just to survive it then actually win it by the slimmest of slim margins. Now I find Chieftain just far too easy...

 

[wilbill]

I had to learn to REX a lot faster and harder than I was used to at Regent level. Postpone building your first improvements a little longer. At Monarch you can actually keep up with the AI's in early expansion (not likely at Emperor/Deity).
An Expansionist civ can be useful, too. A couple of explorers out popping goodie huts can get you a few early advances to trade or sell. And selling/trading contact among the AI's is a good thing. I'm always surprised at how much they'll trade for contact with a new civ.

 

[andvruss]

I'm currently playing a large map, pangea, maximum opponents for that map, and I'm American (Industrious, Expansionist) on Monarch. I found out that the expansionist trait is EXTREMELY helpful in early tech leads. When I finally contacted another civ, I was approximately2-4 techs ahead of them, had way more gold, and had 1-3 more cities than them. The expanionist trait helps alot when trying to take an early science lead. Other than that, I usually buy a tech that some wealthy civs dont have, buy it from the civ that does, and broker it to the other civs, reaping in huge amounts of gold, gpt, etc..

 

[Matt P]

Like others have said, trading techs is an absolute must in a Monarch game. In the one monarch game I finished, I didn't do much research at all in the first 2 ages and just saved up cash and cash. I bought my techs and tried to sell them to other civs behind me. Eventually after I built enough cities (close together) and had libraries and universities in place I had the ability to do my own research.

When you get to tech parity, you have to go for a tech no one else will and if you get it, it can turn the tide. I got Scientific Method first, built TOE with a prebuild and found myself about 3 techs in front. Once you have that tech lead, it's difficult to lose it.

 

[Cruise]

I have a big problem moving from Emperor to Deity. One thing i have learned in the process of moving up is keeping your cities closely packed. It's no problem to have only 2 squares in between a few of your cities, because it will take a while to grow to size 6, or even size 12 when they might be bothered by overlapping. Some people really don't like it, just force yourself into doing that and look at the results. Beyond size 12 it might become too dense.. but you have already passed halfway in the game then when you get the hospitals in. Also start attacking right away if you're out of resourceful land to settle. Let the AI get the crappy desert and icey areas.

 

[billindenver]

Originally posted by Matt P
Once you have that tech lead, it's difficult to lose it.

This is the only statement I disagree with. In my current game and my previous one, I was 2-3 techs ahead but caught from behind, in a way anyway. India was 2-3 behind, but researched computers and rocketry before me and nearly beat me to the space race.

In my current game, I had a 3 tech lead drop to 1 tech pretty quickly. All it takes is two civs researching different techs and trading them. Even with univs/libraries/wonders, they will stay very close. It's not like Civ I where you had tanks vs spearmen if you got the tech lead. You'll almost never be more than 1-2 techs ahead of the most advanced civ for very long.

 

[Speaker]

Another useful strategy is to avoid unnecessary optional techs. I rarely research or trade for Monarchy, Economics, Music Theory, Printing Press, or Democracy until the Industrial Age, since on Emperor and Deity it is pretty difficult to build Middle Age wonders. Haven't played Monarch in a while, so I can't remember how wonders go on that level. You can save a good deal of cash or research time like that.

 

[billindenver]

Originally posted by Speaker
Another useful strategy is to avoid unnecessary optional techs. I rarely research or trade for Monarchy, Economics, Music Theory, Printing Press, or Democracy until the Industrial Age, since on Emperor and Deity it is pretty difficult to build Middle Age wonders. Haven't played Monarch in a while, so I can't remember how wonders go on that level. You can save a good deal of cash or research time like that.

In most of my games, I only get 1-2 of them at best, but if you get a good start like I had in my current game, I'll have a shot at every one of them. I usually go right for Industrial Era, but I'm seriously considering diverting and going after Free Artistry. It's a tough decision, cause I really want Newton's too and I also want to get Military Tradition.

Of the Middle Age wonders, I got Sun Tzu, Leonardo, Copernicus, and Adam Smith so far, missing Sistine by 3 turns. I started JS Bach 1 turn after the first civ to start it, am researching Navigation and will get that first easily, and should be able to get either Newton or Shakespeare, but probably not both.

I must say it's rare for me to have this many wonders however.

 

[Matt P]

Originally posted by billindenver

This is the only statement I disagree with. In my current game and my previous one, I was 2-3 techs ahead but caught from behind, in a way anyway. India was 2-3 behind, but researched computers and rocketry before me and nearly beat me to the space race.

In my current game, I had a 3 tech lead drop to 1 tech pretty quickly. All it takes is two civs researching different techs and trading them. Even with univs/libraries/wonders, they will stay very close. It's not like Civ I where you had tanks vs spearmen if you got the tech lead. You'll almost never be more than 1-2 techs ahead of the most advanced civ for very long.

A 2-3 tech lead is difficult to hold, but if you actively trade your techs with the other civs on your tail, you can essentially bankrupt them, slowing down their research and giving you the cash to up research and keep the lead.

If you have a tech lead and don't trade at all, you will get caught up in techs by the AI. Unless you're playing Chieftain of course

 

[Arimae]

When trying to buy techs, the AI usually asks for almost all my gold. How can I get them to lower the asking price?

 

[billindenver]

Originally posted by Matt P
A 2-3 tech lead is difficult to hold, but if you actively trade your techs with the other civs on your tail, you can essentially bankrupt them, slowing down their research and giving you the cash to up research and keep the lead.

If you have a tech lead and don't trade at all, you will get caught up in techs by the AI. Unless you're playing Chieftain of course

Well, in my last game, I was close to doing that. I had research set to 100% and was still making 500gpt at one point. However, I researched Computers then the top line, and they got Rocketry and Computers and Superconductor. I guess in a way, I was still ahead by maybe a tech, but they had techs I didn't which were just as important. I was getting modern age techs in 5-6 turns and was just holding my own!

This was on Monarch, btw. In my current game, I'm 2-3 techs ahead in the Middle Ages, which is incredibly rare for me. Unfortunately, all the other civs are too broke to pay me more than 10 gold and world map for anything, although I've gotten Iron and Ivory at times.

 

[billindenver]

Originally posted by Arimae
When trying to buy techs, the AI usually asks for almost all my gold. How can I get them to lower the asking price?

They won't lower the asking price. You can either give them the money they want, or throw in a luxury or resource. You can also set your research slider down lower so that you have more gpt showing, then you can offer gpt deals.