Monstrous Creatures

[WarKirby]

I've finished making the dragon breath spells, although their values are not final.
Feedback desired

Common things first
All of them will be 1-radius area effect spells, similar to Ring of Flames.
All of them are resistable. When a spell is resisted, it simply does nothing to the unit that resists it. Base resist chance for all spells globally is 20%

Now.

Breathe Fire

• Average of 40% damage (fire element)
• +20% resistance chance (40% total)
• No damage limit. It can kill!

This one is generally intended to be a pure power spell. Not too reliable, so it has a moderate resistance chance, but devastatingly powerful when it works, and one of the very few spells that can kill. I feel it's fitting for Eurabatres to be able to cast a spell that can kill.

Icy Breath

• Average of 10% damage (cold element)
• -10% resistance chance (10% total)
• 75% damage limit
• Gives the Slow promotion to all units it affects
  
  Slow
  

  • -1 movement
  • -40% withdrawal chance
  • +1 terrrain movement cost

This one is purely for Drifa. It's very hard to resist, but relatively weak in damage. Mainly it slows enemies down and makes it hard for them to escape. Think of it as a damaging version of the Ice I spell.

Spit Acid

• Average 20% damage (non elemental)
• no resistance modifier (20% total)
• 50% damage limit
• Gives the Rusted promo to affected units (-10% strength)
• Removes metal weapons from affected units.

Spit acid is essentially a damaging version of the Entropy I spell, Rust. I generally disliked the idea of giving poison strength to represent acid, as most non-living units are immune to poison damage. Doing it this way, I've given it physical damage type, which as far as I'm aware cannot be resisted, and thusly acid will work on everything as it should. If implemented as poison damage, it would do nothing to Iron golems for instance, which seems silly.

Thoughts? Are they too weak, or too powerful? I'm wondering if Breathe Fire might be a bit overpowering.

Also, I need some thoughts on how to distribute the spells. I'm thinking...

Drifa: Ice
Acheron: Fire
Abashi: Fire, Acid
Eurabatres: Fire, Acid
Coatlann: Acid

should coatlann have fire, perhaps?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

What wories me is that Drifa gets only a single spell. Where almost all of the others get 2, and that the spell he does get is generaly weak and only good to hold enemies in place.
Great if you have a stack of doom with Drifa to take out that other stack of doom. But not that good when facing a stack of doom on its own.
I think that he should get some more Ice spells like Auric does. Prehaps to create snow around him or to manipulate blizards like the white hand?

Heck, since he is the dragon of ice, it would be fitting for him to be able to sumon and control blizards as he goes around don't you think?

 

[WarKirby]

What wories me is that Drifa gets only a single spell. Where almost all of the others get 2, and that the spell he does get is generaly weak and only good to hold enemies in place.
Great if you have a stack of doom with Drifa to take out that other stack of doom. But not that good when facing a stack of doom on its own.
I think that he should get some more Ice spells like Auric does. Prehaps to create snow around him or to manipulate blizards like the white hand?

Heck, since he is the dragon of ice, it would be fitting for him to be able to sumon and control blizards as he goes around don't you think?

I've always thought Drifa was a rather feminine name personally.

But you have a point.
I'll give Drifa Ice III as well, so she can cast Snowfall. Just the normal version though, not Auric's super version. Drifa is powerful, but Auric Ascended is in a league of his own and I think it should stay like that.

Do you think Breathe Fire as I'm implementing sounds too powerful, though? That was my primary worry. Mainly, I want to have a spell that can kill. But I'm willing to sacrifice other parts of it, like the damage done per cast or the resist chance, if it seems overpowered as it is.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Breathe Fire is AOE right?
Hiting what ever units are around the dragon?
It's not realy overpowered. Not in my opinion at least.

PS. Drifa being female, that kind of makes sense now... <looks at Auric and Mullican with that serius expresion>

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, Drifa is (at least grammatically) female.


The way I have it implemented in my version right now, Acheron's breath weapon creates 6 Enraged Fireballs, Drifa's deals 20-80 Ice damage and gives the slow promotion, Abashi deals 10-40 Death damage and summons 2 Fireballs with Vile Touch (so the targets get withered, even if Magic Immune), and Eurabates deals 10-40 Poison Damage, removes Vile Touch, Stigmata, and Unholy Taint from nearby units, and summons 3 fireballs that all start with Crown of Brillance (and thus instantly cast this Holy Damage spell when summoned, making his attack use Poison, Holy, and Fire Damage.) Also, All Dragons have Flying, Blitz, much higher base strength, and can be used as Nukes.

 

[WarKirby]

Breathe Fire is AOE right?
Hiting what ever units are around the dragon?
It's not realy overpowered. Not in my opinion at least.

The way I'm implementing it, it's basically a double strength version of ring of Flames, with no damage limit. So that it can kill things.

it does have a 40% failure rate though, which I hope will balance it. But I have this nagging feeling in my mind that I got carried away and made it too strong.

Incidentally, now that I'm learning a lot more about the general mechanics of magic, the Tower of Alteration seems horribly overpowered

As a new player, I remember looking at the Meagre figure of 20%, and thinking it pitiful, barely worth the effort. But knowing how things work, that -20% magic resistance to your enemies is massive. The difference between affecting 60% of a stack, and 80%, can be a very large amount.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I think you are actualy taking it to far into the other direction. You are making it to week.
A 40% faliture rate, a 40% resist rate, combined they are just to much.

I would much rather have it be a 40% resist rate, 0% faliture rate, castable once per 2 or 3 turns spell.

Why don't you upload a test mod with only the dragons and spells for us to check for balance issues?
After all, that is the best way to determine wether its good or not.

 

[WarKirby]

Abashi deals 10-40 Death damage and summons 2 Fireballs with Vile Touch (to the targets get withered),

See, I don't like this.

When playing as the Sheiam, one of your primary opponents is going to be the Mercurians, who have a huge army of non-living, death-immune angels.

I do love the concepts of elemental strengths, and indeed, I think they should play a greater role. But I have a feeling that dragons are above that. For almost every possible element, there's going to be something that resists it, and makes it less useful. I was actually considering making Breathe Fire a holy element spell, instead of Fire element, due to the demonic resistance to fire.

Summoning fireballs in general, is something I've always thought a bit odd, and king of flow breaking. I must admit, I do like the "direct damage" spells which just apply effects to surrounding units given parameters. Summoning a fireball, then sending it to attack, just feels different, and odd, somehow. And summoning 6 fireballs seems like frustrating micromanagement.

 

[WarKirby]

I think you are actualy taking it to far into the other direction. You are making it to week.
A 40% faliture rate, a 40% resist rate, combined they are just to much.

I think you misunderstand. They are one and the same.

Basically, the spell will have a 40% chance (per unit) of doing absolutely nothing.

Unless the unit has specific magic or fire resistance properties, once it passes that check, it will do the full amount of damage.


I intend to release a playable version soon. Atm, I'm primarily waiting on an answer to my questions about Collateral Damage and city bombardment, in the Mod-modder's guide thread. If you know anyone who could answer them, feel free to point them at my post.

Releasing a version with only the dragon stuff isn't going to happen. everything's too melded together. My first release probably won't include any changes to elephants or Tar demons (yet) but otherwise everything is in.

As a side note, all new spells and promotions will have unique art. Because I just like that extra polish. I have an image for the Monstrous Creature promotion which is taken from a random image I found on google, and spell/promotion buttons taken from Titan Quest, which has some nice things to use.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

There is no micromanagement in Acheron's 6 Fireballs, because they start with a promotion that make you unable to control them (I said Enraged, but it is actually another stronger promotion in my version, which is basically a cross between enraged and Burning Blood). Acheron is a rebellious dragon, and his flames are just as unmanageable.


Angels are actually only 50% resistant to death damage. I may change that spell to Unholy, to which Angels have no resistance. Or I may rethink the dragon breath abilities entirely.


I wish you could set xml-only spells to deal multiple damage types.

 

[Tasunke]

so when you said breath fire grants on average 40% damage, is that relative to the enemies strength, or is that drawn from Eurabatres strength. Frankly, 40% of 50 would definitely kill ANYTHING without some kind of fire resist

Upon second thought its mostlikely based on the enemy's strength, but how can it be random? I dont know the mechanics of ring of fire other than giving the maximum whatever percent due to ritualist spamming, but I would like the Eurabatres spell to have a set 5% chance of instant fiery death.

@ Magister, what did u mean exactly by using dragons as nukes? O.O

 

[deadliver]

Are you going to be including Wilboman? Auric's pet Frostie?

edit: stoopid stoopid i already asked this nevermind! sorry!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

To make units count as Nukes, you just have to give them <iNukeRange>1</iNukeRange>. It will cause the world to shake, cause a diplomatic penalty with those you used it against, display the "....has launched a ...., and it explodes!" message (it isn't hard to change this text string, or make it blank), and basically works like para dropping into a tile but it attacks (with its full normal strength, not just like an air attack, and with the normal PythonPostCombat effects, slave generation, promotions from combat, etc) instead of dieing if it tries to enter an empty tile. I think it may still destroy buildings if used on cities, but I'm not sure. I thought I remembered it causing fallout several versions back, but it does not seem to anymore.

Counting as a nuke does not mean the unit dies after being used. That is caused by the <bExplodeInCombat>1 tag, which all Civ IV nukes just happen to have.

The actual range within which the nuke ability works is determined by the <iAirRange> tag, unless this value is left at 0. In that case, it will have an infinite range like an ICMB. That is how my Tesseract summons are able to drop their cargo onto essentially any tile of the map.

One side effect of counting as a Nuke is that the unit cannot be built until a ritual (the equivalent of the Manhattan Project) is completed by someone. I actually find that rather appropriate thematically, as the pedia entry does seem to indicate that the Cult of the Dragon has to perform many such rituals in order to make the objects of their worship rise again.

 

[Tasunke]

When u say it attacks all units in the city, does that mean that any surviving (withdrawing) units escape to nearby tiles and the dragon takes control of the now half population city? (also, does it mean a lucky troop in the city can accidentally kill the dragon when it drops)

 

[Quetz]

@ drifa and auric, one of them should be able to create blizzards imo, and preferable drifa since there isnt much reason to bother with Auric..

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I didn't say it attacks all units in the city.


If there are multiple units on the tile, the dragon returns to its tile (which could be several tiles away) just like it normally would in a normal attack. (I forget whether the fear effect still applies this way though, but I think it does when not attacking a city.)

I don't recall it halving the city population. I may need to check that.

Yes, the dragon can die in a nuke-attack just like in a normal attack. One downside of using the nuke ability is that you don't get to see the odds of winning.

 

[JimMorrison]

so when you said breath fire grants on average 40% damage, is that relative to the enemies strength, or is that drawn from Eurabatres strength. Frankly, 40% of 50 would definitely kill ANYTHING without some kind of fire resist

Like a ranged attack, the "40%" is the portion of the enemy's health, regardless of their strength, that is removed.

"Your [Unit] was damaged 40% by Fire!" Or however it says it.

 

[WarKirby]

so when you said breath fire grants on average 40% damage, is that relative to the enemies strength, or is that drawn from Eurabatres strength. Frankly, 40% of 50 would definitely kill ANYTHING without some kind of fire resist

I believe damage spells are only based on the spell's base damage, the victim's strength and magic resistance promos, and the magic-boosting promos that the user has

Combat I-V increase the damage your spells do. Although "+5 to spell damage" isn't really informitive. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could explain more.

But the general gist iis, the spell won't be more overpowered if eurabatres uses it, than if a lv1 adept uses it. But it will become a bit more powerful as the user levels up and gains combat promos. How much more powerful, I'm not certain. yet.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Well, they are divine supper weapons of war. They do deserve to be a tiney bit overpowered for lore sake. xP
Also, I think that you should add the Fire spell a chance of creating smoke in the adjasen tiles, and a 1 turn cooldown betwen fiering. To prevent constant spaming.

As for nukes, they can do what ever you want to a target. I my self have always moded nukes to work like SMAC Planet Busters (destroy everything in a wider city radius and reduce the radius to sea.)

 

[WarKirby]

So what exactly is the point in having dragons treated as nukes?

The relations penalty for using them?
The requirement of a ritual first?

Does it give them any extra destructrive capability?