Monstrous Creatures

[WarKirby]

I'd love to add the ability to ride them with the discovery of Animal Mastery.

Not sure if it's possible. hmm.

Or maybe.....

 

[PPQ_Purple]

It is, and it is easy via XML.
Potential riders get a new <Special></Special> value "Hero" and the dragons get a <SpecialCargo></SpecialCargo> value of "Hero".
This is the way Aircraft carriers in vanila can cary only fighters and jets.

 

[WarKirby]

"easy" ?
So, just edit every hero in the game?

not gonna happen. And I can't do promotion prereqs either.

In general, sorry for the lack of progress on this. I'm going to work on it once I'm done with the hippogriff model.

 

[deadliver]

Sure would be cool if you could add the Monstrous Mount promo to a hero! It should be hero only, the exception being the Austrin. (who I think are slated to have griffin riders? Or do they already?)

Hmm, imagine having the Emperor flying around on Acheron, that would be scary scary. The mount could be detachable too like a great commander. Shucks, sure wish I had the will to mod.

 

[Valkrionn]

The austrin get pegasus mounts from their Archmages, not griffins.

 

[deadliver]

One of the few civs in FF i have yet to play. Hey Valkrionn have you updated the mana nodes yet? *whip whip*

Heh. In Warhammer Fantasy Battle (at least one or two of the editions) the Emperor and other monarchs have large zoos where they keep monstrous mounts for their use in battle. Could that building be useful in FF? (or Orbi for that matter).

 

[PPQ_Purple]

"easy" ?
So, just edit every hero in the game?

not gonna happen. And I can't do promotion prereqs either.

In general, sorry for the lack of progress on this. I'm going to work on it once I'm done with the hippogriff model.

I don't think it would affect anything else than it's value as cargo.
Promotion preqs are linked to the units type (mele, scout,...) so they would not be affected.

I am not talking about making heroes ride dragons into battle like calavery. I am talking about them using dragons to travel like they would a caravel or a galley and disembark to fight. For example to transport a hero over mountains or an ocean.

I understand if you dislike the idea, but it's not realy that much work as you shout it out to be.
There are not that many heroes out there (30 at most) and adding a single XML tag to them is not realy that much of a work load as you make it out to be.

Even someone like me could do it with notepad in a weary short time.

 

[JimMorrison]

There are not that many heroes out there (30 at most) and adding a single XML tag to them is not realy that much of a work load as you make it out to be.

It does look like an easy change, but there are a lot more than 30. I just realized yesterday, there are more heroes than there are technologies.

 

[WarKirby]

I understand if you dislike the idea, but it's not realy that much work as you shout it out to be.
There are not that many heroes out there (30 at most) and adding a single XML tag to them is not realy that much of a work load as you make it out to be.

Even someone like me could do it with notepad in a weary short time.

It's not the amount of work, I could do it in 20 minutes or so, it's the number of changes.

I do modular modmods. Things which can be loaded on top of anything else. If I make any change to a unit, my entire snapshot of that unit's state has to be included in the module, and would overwrite any other modmod that may affect that unit, or even any core changes in FF.

Monstrous Creatures are the scope of this project. Installing is is basically carte blanche for me to mess with big scary things in your install. But little teeny human heroes are outside of the scope of it, and would interfere with a lot of things.

That said, it does sound like a good idea. And adding this little tag to heroes seems like something that should be done. If you can poke vehem into implementing it in FF, then I'll make dragons carry heroes, because then it would only require editing the dragons on my part. But I'm not including an extra ~30 units in the scope of the project for that feature alone

 

[The NeverTide]

I'm glad to see a lot of the changes you've made here and I'll definitely be implementing this when you're done.

And thank you for the changes to the M. Golem. I didn't understand the AC requirement (though its not hard to achieve) and the limited mobility. That and it not having magic immunity annoyed me. I'm also glad to see stoneskin and crush instead of earth 3.

Looking forward to its release.

 

[deadliver]

...But little teeny human heroes are outside of the scope of it, and would interfere with a lot of things...

Lolz. Can't wait to have rampaging monsters man.

 

[WarKirby]

I didn't understand the AC requirement (though its not hard to achieve) and the limited mobility.

Looking at it's pedia, kilmorph created it for the dwarves to take revenge on drowns who murdered a village. But they could just as easily have been orcs. Or hippus raiders. Or doviello. So I didn't think the AC requirement makes sense.

In general, my philosophy is that AC requirements are generally only justified for demons or angels. If something isn't directly linked with the armageddon by it's nature, it shouldn't be reliant on the counter. I still dislike that jotnar's orc mercenaries require AC 30.

 

[WarKirby]

I was hoping to have a first version of this finished and uploaded, but the collateral damage is being a pain. It works, but just not very well. Despite there being no damage limit on the collateral, Auric Ascended still takes 3 shots of collateral damage to kill a lowly goblin.

 

[Tasunke]

was this not including using his spell I imagine? Is it that collataral isnt working how it normally does or that the limitations of collataral are vexing?


A nifty synergy would be to accompany the monsters with catapults or fire balls, to do the collataral ahead of time. This is of course, avoiding the fact that the spell is a very nifty unit killer in its own right. Spell + attack will most likely result in at least 5 enemy units dying.

 

[WarKirby]

I'll come to balancing the collateral and making synergies later. What I'm trying at present is 9999 in all damage fields, just to see if it works. And it seems to be hitting some invisible limit that caps collateral damage at 33%,

Perhaps I've overlooked some other limit tag. My post about it is in the modmodder's thread at the top of this forum, if you have any info about it, please do post there,.

 

[Vehem]

I was hoping to have a first version of this finished and uploaded, but the collateral damage is being a pain. It works, but just not very well. Despite there being no damage limit on the collateral, Auric Ascended still takes 3 shots of collateral damage to kill a lowly goblin.

I think collateral only performs one round of combat/damage against each eligible target, so the most it can do in a single attack is the same as the most that can be done in a single round of normal combat.

According to the old formula I saved from Apolyton (not sure if it has been changed in the meantime...)

Attackers damage per round = 20 * (3 * A + D) / (3 * D + A)

So with 1000 strength against 2 strength...

20 * (3 * 1000 + 2) / (3 * 2 +1000)
20 * (3002)/(1006)
20 * ~2.98
~59.6 damage in one round...

Looking at the numbers, even with an infinite ratio (such as 1 vs 0), the best you're going to get is 3 times that 20 damage.

20 * (3 * 1 + 0)/(3*0 + 1)
20 * (3) / (1)
20 * 3
60 damage in one round...

 

[odalrick]

I'm fairly certain that the damage per round is limited in such a way that a unit must always win at least three combat rounds against a healthy unit. Regardless of relative strength.

 

[JimMorrison]

Brings me to the other suggestion I was thinking - try his attack out on some really tough stuff and see what happens. If he's still doing the same 33% damage with no cap on the strongest units in the game, he may be a bit overpowered.

 

[WarKirby]

Guess I'm going to have to live with collateral damage being inferior, then.

Brings me to the other suggestion I was thinking - try his attack out on some really tough stuff and see what happens. If he's still doing the same 33% damage with no cap on the strongest units in the game, he may be a bit overpowered.

I disagree. If Mother or Gurid were doing that much damage, then it'd be overpowered. But I'd say that absolutely nothing Auric ascended does could ever be called overpowered. With my changes, Auric is pretty much going to be a victory condition for the illians.Bar the actual game instantly ending.


A question. Should I give Avatar promo to Meshabber, Avatar of Wrath, and Mythrill golem ?

 

[Tasunke]

maybe for the wrath, maybe for the Messhaber, but I dont see the golem qualifying. Of course, if ur revamping Auric you may want to revamp the godslayer too ... which means keeping avatar promo as Auric only

Since he is considered the god, as much as a god can possibly exist in the mortal realm within our senses, I figure Auric Ascended is the only true "avatar" of a god. Meaning his fleshy and 3-D versoin of himself to use on Erebus, much like our digital (and often 2-D) avatars in the net, assuming we make the avatar exactly as and unto ourself.

Though that maybe beyond the scope of this lore