Monstrous Creatures

[xienwolf]

You can modify the unit's movement cost per tile with XML (reasonably certain), so you could make it so that while in water all movement costs an extra point (look at the Heavy Promotion, I think it is set to use this field)

 

[WarKirby]

You can modify the unit's movement cost per tile with XML (reasonably certain), so you could make it so that while in water all movement costs an extra point (look at the Heavy Promotion, I think it is set to use this field)

Well in that case, the only ogther point. how do I setup an autoaquire promotion to be given when standing in water?

 

[Valkrionn]

Make it require the Monstrous Creature promotion, and terrain_Coast. I'm assuming coast is all they can wade into?

 

[Tasunke]

iirc, Coatlynn's original strength is 18. If war-elephants are 20, and regular dragons are 35-40, then I would have to imagine, even with exra movement and withrawal rate/ect of the smaller Coatlyn, it would have a similar relation to the Oliphants that the LOTR fire-drake mounts had. In essense, I would still envision a strength of 24 for Coatlynn. Maybe 18 + 6 poison?

 

[WarKirby]

biiiig problem.

I'm having trouble implementing the water wading thing.

Generally, it needs prereq promotion Monstrous Creature. But this is impossible
Can't link to something in the same file with modular loading. A promotion that requires another promotion as prereq, simply cannot be done.

Can anyone think of some alternate method to acocmplish it?

 

[Tarquelne]

But this is impossible
Can't link to something in the same file with modular loading. A promotion that requires another promotion as prereq, simply cannot be done.

A prerequnit "whitelist" on the Hip Waders promotion.

 

[WarKirby]

Isn't there a limit on the number of prerequnits?

My list of monstrous creatures is already 16 units long...

 

[Tarquelne]

Isn't there a limit on the number of prerequnits?

My list of monstrous creatures is already 16 units long...

Not that I know of, but I've never had cause to try more than a few.

 

[xienwolf]

If it is a tag I wrote, there isn't a limit.

 

[WarKirby]

Grrrr.

I was going along with it merrily, implementing the messy workaround of having a list of every monstrous creature in the promotion, until I hit a snag.

Dragons, who are flying, would be slowed down by this when they move over water, too. That makes no sense.

So, the slow-water-wading idea is being thrown in the trash. It's either normal speed, or not at all. What does everyone think?

Oh one more thing I'm not clear about. If I allow water walking, but disallow entering oceans, would that also prevent (flying) dragons from entering oceans? If that's the case, then I have to toss this idea out entirely.

 

[WarKirby]

And another, seperate issue I need some feedback on.

I'm thinking of uncoupling the Breathe Fire spell from the dragon promo. And instead creating 3 new promotions

Heart of Frost
Molten Core
Acid Tongue

Each of them would, respectively, allow the spells Icy Breath, Breathe Fire, and Spit acid.
A few reasons for this idea.

1. Drifa breathing fire makes no sense. Having her breathe ice instead would be much better.
2. Acid has been referenced several times, and I don't want to add Poison damage to combat strength, due to the loss of strength that would have against non-living targets. An acid oritented spell seems like a better way to represent this.

Now, the problem. I can't do python in a module, which limits what I can do here. But I CAN piece together tags from a few spells, and create a spell which damages everything within a given radius, and possibly adds a promotion.

Generally, Breathe Fire would be the most powerful, but with no special effects.
Icy Breath less powerful, but it would apply the Slowed promotion to enemies it hits.
Spit Acid, would essentially be a damaging version of the Entropy I spell, Rust. Removing metal weapons, and applying the Rusted promotion.

This would generally require moving away from the current implementation of Breathe Fire, which summons a meteor, to an effect more like Ring of Flames. And it would essentially be a less discriminate, less targetable spell. Also somewhat more powerful due to the ability to hit everything in the surrounding 8 tiles

Does this seem like a good idea, or not.

 

[Tarquelne]

I like:

A unit-summoned (fireball/meteor) based "Breath Fire".
An Area of Effect "Heart of Frost"
Spit Acid as a powerful unit-summoned no-collateral damage attack with a "Rusted" or similar promo given targets it doesn't kill outright.

 

[odalrick]

I can't do python in a module, which limits what I can do here.

Actually I think you can, provided you are prepared to violate a few rules about good program design.

(The reason you can is because the python for spells violate a rule about good program design.)

Basically, stick an

import your_module

in the prereqs for any spells you add.

It would possibly cause OOS errors, though. Depends of what you do and stuff...

 

[mahazel]

Why?

I ca understand about fire, perhaps. but where does poison come into it? What does the gold dragon have to do with poison.

Elemental damage types tend to make the unit weaker, by allowing the damage to be resisted.

Drifa has a portion of cold strength, and I'll keep that. but the other dragons don't really seem to have any particular elemental affinity.

Posion seems like a pretty good type to represent acid breath, and Eurabatres's entry specifically mentions him breathing both flames and acid. I believe Abashi breaths toxic fumes.

by MC

That`s why
In Eurabatres `pedia is mentioned about his acid and fire power, Acheron is FIRE dragon, so in my opinion (and in my games) he should have fire strength, just like Drifa (ice dragon) has cold strength. Abashis breath is full of toxins, so the best for her is poison and unholy damage.

 

[deadliver]

Heya Warkirby,

got a final verdict on those tar demons?

 

[WarKirby]

That`s why
In Eurabatres `pedia is mentioned about his acid and fire power, Acheron is FIRE dragon, so in my opinion (and in my games) he should have fire strength, just like Drifa (ice dragon) has cold strength. Abashis breath is full of toxins, so the best for her is poison and unholy damage.

I? disagree that poison is a good damage type to represent acid, though.

Poison for the most part, only affects living things. But acid is going to burn through a metal golem just as well as a living being, if not moreso.

I think acid would be better represented by an acid spitting spell, so that I could make it affect anything instead of only living units, and also so I could make it corrode their weapons like acid should.


I'm not too sure about Tar Demons at the moment. as is, they fill a good defensive role for the Sheiam. Giving them Monstrous Creature would take away their defensive bonus.

however it does seem quite fitting/.

 

[Tasunke]

So these spells ... could you make it so each incarnation has an option to bombard city defense? (even if it has to be yet another attached spell like "claw at walls" ) ... one of my favorite uses of Dragons are an elite commando unit while my army is busy being killed by their army.

 

[WarKirby]

So these spells ... could you make it so each incarnation has an option to bombard city defense?

hmm, no, I can't.

I'll see if I can add a City Bopmbard ability to the Monstrous Creature promo in general though. Perhaps it's possible.

 

[zup]

Well I guess you could make the units have city bombard by default, like hill giants and siege weapons.

 

[WarKirby]

I just found out how pitifully weak the Slow promotion is.

I'm altering it to be able to affect workers, give a -30% withdrawal chance, and +1 terrain movement cost.

Drifa will be using it, but it will also be a nice boost to Priests of Winter, or anyone who uses ice magic.