Moonraker

[Cam_H]

Moonraker​

" First there was the dream, now there is reality. Here in the untainted cradle of the heavens will be created a new super race, a race of perfect physical specimens. You have been selected as its progenitors. Like gods, your offspring will return to Earth and shape it in their image. You have all served in public capacities in my terrestrial empire. Your seed, like yourselves, will pay deference to the ultimate dynasty which I alone have created. From their first day on Earth they will be able to look up and know that there is law and order in the heavens. "​

​

- Hugo Drax, Moonraker (the movie)​

Mods

Note: This game is played using the Hall of Fame 2.13.004 mod for Warlords that must be installed for the game to be loaded. (Thanks for the tip vran' + lymond!).

This mod will extend an improved user interface, which can be activated by opening the Options menu and selecting from the optional tools / interfaces within the HOF1-3 tabs.​

Leader:

Brennus of Celtia renamed "Hugo Drax" of "Spectre" (Special Executive for Counter-intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion):

Spiritual: No Anarchy during Civic switches, +100% for Temples
Charismatic: +1 per City, per Monument, and per Broadcast Tower. Units require 25% less experience to earn a new promotion.
Gallic Warrior: Swordsman replacement that begins with Guerrilla I and can be made with access to Copper and/or Iron.
Dun: Walls replacement where Reconnaissance, Archery, and Gunpowder units receive a free Guerrilla I promotion.
Hunting and Mysticism.​

Victory:

All victory conditions are enabled, however refer next ...​

Variants (before victory is achieved):

Moonraker

[Victory will be achieved by Spaceship win.]

Diamonds are Forever

[According to a text search of the WorldBuilder file, there are two Gems resources on the map. Spectre will have access to (two) both of them at least one point during the course of the game.]

Goldfinger

[According to a text search of the WorldBuilder file, there are five Gold resources on the map. Spectre will have access to at minimum three of them at least one point during the course of the game.]

From Russia with Love

[Found a Defensive Pact with Russia at least one point during the course of the game by either vassalage or mutual agreement.]​

Game Set-Up:

Rivals:

- China
- England
- Germany
- Japan
- Russia
- United States​

Roster:

Players at Prince or Monarch levels looking to improve their skills are especially invited to join. Emperor+ level players may take on a counselling-type role.

woopdeedoo
vranasm (joined mid-game)
FiveRings
Cam
<<Open>>​

The first turnset of the game will be of 30 turns duration. The next turnset of the game of 20 turns. 10 to 15 turns per turnset after the opening two depending upon game conditions. Players are expected to complete their turnsets within three days of completion of the preceding player's. Swaps and skips are allowed. Players may be removed from the roster. Players may not 'play ahead' until the game is completed.​

Start:

Blurb:

In this Bond-themed game we take on the role of one of Ian Fleming's super-villains; Hugo Drax, who like Brennus, was 'a ginger' ... in the book at any rate. I've opted to go with a movie-version victory variant rather than the possible objective of Drax in Fleming's book, being to drop an ICBM on London, which could have worked too. Getting access to the Gems and Gold resources may or may not be easy, but I envisage securing the Defensive Pact with Russia shouldn't be too arduous.

Personally I find the Celts to be one of the most unremarkable tribes in Civ4 terms, but both leaders; Brennus and BTS's Boudica have 'cracking' trait combo's to make up for a UU, UB, and starting tech's that are of 'niche' use at best. I very much wanted to select a Spiritual leader in light of the fact that the game is played with the Warlords expansion, and we shouldn't be weighed down about civic switches causing huge chunks of Anarchy (unlike BtS thanks to Golden Ages and Cristo Redentor). I'm envisaging that this will make for a more fluid game.

For the record, I have had a brief glimpse at the map, and won't comment on possible city placements until the roster has acquired Bronze Working and Animal Husbandry.​

 

[vranasm]

I will watch for sure...

I think the start looks like SIP. What I would recommend to do is based on starting techs which I don't have in mind and can be different in warlords anyway.

what I remember is that Celts have really bad starting techs. I think one is Hunting (the scout), the other dunno, I guess it's not fishing nor agri.

It could be viable opening with teching fishing, starting on worker, then interrupt for WB on the PH, finish worker, after fishing agri, then directly to BW.

the worker would have some wasted turns for sure, but that would be probably in all scenarios.

if this wouldn't be Monarch I would actually promote starting with 3 warriors and capture enemy capitol (using that ph), while teching worker techs.

edit:
I would pop the hut with the settler not scout... I think you could get that way tech, the other way not.

 

[Habitus]

I'd move the scout on to the plains hill and possible settle on it, a city 3W of the plains hill can pick up the sea food later if thats done, not sure if that loses fresh water health thou. Use border pops to get the hut, no chance for xp then so higher chance for tech, starting techs are mysticism and hunting Hills to south look unforested so a Agri - Mining - BW opening could leave you with no spare worker turns. I'll lurk but don't think I'll be free to play due to SGoTM + RL

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks both for your interest as lurkers, and good suggestions.

As per the opening post, I can't comment on the spot to settle as I've had a very quick glance at the map (no knowledge or insight that's going to be game breaking, but I thought that in fairness I should declare my actions and 'shut up' about dot mapping until we can see {or not see} Copper and Horses).

What we get from the Hut may well determine our consequent move, but I can see a case for; 'Warrior + Fishing', or alternately; 'Worker + Agriculture', but Bronze Working has got to figure pretty prominently consequent to that I would have thought. I'm not sure if Stonehenge is a worthwhile gamble given our Mysticism + Charismatic start.

 

[vranasm]

I think sullla promotes not building SH before first settler for good reasons.

about war+fishing, I would probably still start with part built worker (should be ~7t?) then WB then finish the worker. The added commerce from that coast fish could bring you mining+bw quicker and if habitus is right about the unforested it should click in a good way.

I am not fun of warrior starts except <=prince and here I don't see much reason, you waste probably some time of worker turns, but will have the rice much sooner (should be 5F1C tile) together with fish (5F2C) doesn't look like bad start even if the worker stands there a bit after.


only maybe if you would plan to aggressively hunt workers from AI, but tough to say at what point AI's get them on Monarch.

edit:

I really think you should start with fishing, because that fish is stronger tile then rice even if irrigated.
Celts have always slow starts...

 

[FiveRings]

Thanks for the nice set-up, Cam!

I guess the ICBM onto London is really a bit less challenging, than the riches' requirement, esp in conjunction with the space-victory requirement.

I usually go after both WBs, following Vran's path (Fishing w/ initial Worker-building) but go BW as fast as possible (in this case, Fishing-Mining-BW) I don't seem to lose a lot of worker-invested hammers, although it is worth a simulation effort. Warrior-building instead of investing into a worker might be a very good option, too, depending on resources that might be nearby. I'd definitely move the scout to SE first, but what is revealed after settling the first city would be decisive, I think. There is also the possibility of investing into cash (building the SH but not finishing it.)

The suggestion to move the settler to the PH deserves good merit, but I don't like the loss of a turn, the loss of access to fresh water, and leaving the seafood to a city too close to the capital (initial, at least) and without knowing what other advantages of settling this coast city has.

So, I'd rather SIP, decide on whether it is worthy to go for a worker (a unforested gold / copper deposit nearby?!) or a warrior or an SH investment, teching Fishing. Then switch to WB (usually the warrior comes up the same turn Fishing is learnt), WB again, then worker, teching Mining, then BW. I prefer the full coverage of seafood, as then the worker comes faster but also with a significant research going on during worker-building. I also usually speed up the first WB production as much as possible (using the 3-hammer tile and foregoing growth for some ten turns, as my calculations some time ago showed that the medium-turn production balance is better that way (hammers and bulbs, I guess L might oppose this following his focus on growth...) Oh, it might be good to mention that fish usually comes up better than clam even if a turn on boat-moving is lost.

Frankly speaking, I am quite tempted to get the SH, despite the GrPr hangout, as it takes advantage of the leader trait (additional happiness). Fantasising a bit, beelining to Judaism right after BW, and using the fast GrPr from the SH might not be that bad, hum? Keeping it one city till the shrine is there? I'd throw in also that the capital will be a very good productive city, it seems. So additional growth opportunities may pay off...

And I'm in, of course...

 

[pigswill]

SIP is worth considering because Glight is a nice wonder for continents. Its hard to tell how many unwooded hills you have. Timing of the worker will depend on what the worker has to do, obviously you'll need agric for the rice, it may be that your worker could be unemployed for a few turns before BW in which case growing with warrior/WB might be a better start.

 

[woopdeedoo]

Hello gents. I'm having a look at the save (to see if mod installed correctly) and will comment shortly. I think, considering we get the extra per monument, SH should come in handy. Perhaps after BW so we can chop it out?

On a side note, once SH and monuments are obsoleted, does the go away?

EDIT: Ok, the game loads fine. I think SIP is good. Lots of food for the beginning and plenty of forests to chop out stuff. Additionally, the Southern hills give some nice hammers. Maybe as far as tech goes: Fishing > Mining > BW > Sailing? With Myst as a starting tech, we can also probably go for early religion but then that would have to go before anything else (I think?). With our current opponents, getting an early religion should really not be too hard. If we then (manage to) build SH and/or Oracle, we can shrine up early and not really worry too much about money. As for city builds, I like Vranasm's suggestion of going worker until fishing is in, switching to WB and then back to worker again. After that, another WB for the fishies?

 

[FiveRings]

Hello gents. I'm having a look at the save (to see if mod installed correctly) and will comment shortly. I think, considering we get the extra per monument, SH should come in handy. Perhaps after BW so we can chop it out?

On a side note, once SH and monuments are obsoleted, do the go away?

EDIT: Ok, the game loads fine. I think SIP is good. Lots of food for the beginning and plenty of forests to chop out stuff. Additionally, the Southern hills give some nice hammers. Maybe as far as tech goes: Fishing > Mining > BW > Sailing? With Myst as a starting tech, we can also probably go for early religion but then that would have to go before anything else (I think?). With our current opponents, getting an early religion should really not be too hard. If we then (manage to) build SH and/or Oracle, we can shrine up early and not really worry too much about money. As for city builds, I like Vranasm's suggestion of going worker until fishing is in, switching to WB and then back to worker again. After that, another WB for the fishies?

I am leaning more and more onto starting with working on the SH but on the fish tile (2f+2g) and teching Fishing (once it is in - Mining, then - BW) switch to WB on fastest built at 3 hammers, take fish while producing the 2nd WB (1 turn on 3hammers, then on the fish for growth, 2nd tile again on 3 hammers). Then worker (if WB comes before growth to L3, then continue SH and when at L3 - start worker.
Alternative: warrior(s) in the stead of SH. Two workers that early seems quite redundant, and the scout might well be dead soon, so better to start pumping warriors, may be a settler later, if a new good site is found.

I'd also welcome a start after we have a team of five at least, but not waiting forever, of course.

 

[Cam_H]

I'd also welcome a start after we have a team of five at least, but not waiting forever, of course.

It'd be great if we could get others to join, but many of 'the regulars' do appear to be a bit tied up with some of the other SGs happening at the moment, and there's a SGOTM happening concurrently, so while I'm happy enough to wait, I'm also happy enough to get going and see if we can nab a few players along the way (or at least continue to get some good contributions from the lurkers such as those made by vranasm, Habitus, and pigswill so far {thanks}) ... it's up to you two as to your preference.

 

[lymond]

Yep, folks, I'm going to have to enjoy lurking on this one. I'm overextended as it is.

 

[woopdeedoo]

Ok, well in that case, I'm going to go ahead and move the scout South and post a SS. This will help us decide where to settle...

 

[woopdeedoo]

Moved the Scout:

My vote is definitely for SIP.

 

[vranasm]

agri -> ah->mining->bw->fishing imo ;-) worker first, maybe switch mining with ah even if that is a bit suboptimal.

 

[Habitus]

lurker's comment: SiP for sure now as moving on to plains hill requires giving up either the seafood or cows Only monarch so not sure of tech timing but I think due to Hunting + Agri that AH should finish in time for the worker with the 1 off rice.

 

[woopdeedoo]

agri -> ah->mining->bw->fishing imo ;-) worker first, maybe switch mining with ah even if that is a bit suboptimal.

I would switch it around to fishing>agri>mining>bw>ah. Going fishing first will still let us get the WBs out while growing, and allowing for faster workers and settlers.

On a side note, are we going to go for early religion?

 

[woopdeedoo]

lurker's comment: SiP for sure now as moving on to plains hill requires giving up either the seafood or cows Only monarch so not sure of tech timing but I think due to Hunting + Agri that AH should finish in time for the worker with the 1 off rice.

We have hunting and myst

EDIT: Sorry, misunderstood your post...

 

[vranasm]

I would switch it around to fishing>agri>mining>bw>ah. Going fishing first will still let us get the WBs out while growing, and allowing for faster workers and settlers.

On a side note, are we going to go for early religion?

well I wanted to provide some SS simulations for first 30 turns to compare things, since that thing is best you can do to provide arguments, but I will put my bet that building worker, improving rice and cow will beat anything you will do with early fishing.

The issue before was that there was not enough work for worker to do after agri since everything else would take too long.
Now it is completely other talk.

you can improve rice for 5T, pasture cows which is strongest tile in BFC! for 4T+1T movement from rice, meaning you have ~25 turns of teching before the worker runs out of work.

Fish has one big disadvantage in hammer cost (30 hammer is not pitiful amount).

I have only 1 doubt here and that is if those 25T teching turns will bring agri, ah and mining, if not then it's better to do agri, mining and improve at least 1 GH before pasturing cow.

Fish starts are slower due to the hammer cost of WB which is "wasting" production in a sense. Compared to building 1 time worker and having all other improvements "free" (everything in civ has its costs).

There can be strong argument for coastal commerce, which is valid observation and thus the fishing shouldn't be delayed much, but I really don't see this start going with fishing first now.

But as I am only pure lurker, the team can do what the team wants

 

[lymond]

ag>ah>mining is the better play here IMO...you might run into a couple of idle worker turns, but you will be more productive earlier and get the first settler faster

 

[FiveRings]

Good cows change it all.

I agree with L: SIP, Ag-AH-Mining (after Ag, figure out whether worker turns will be lost if teching AH, if no- -OK, if yes - do the mining first (my guess is AH should work just fine).

Then I'd go BW if no horses around, Fishing-BW otherwise.

Worker building on the rice tile.

Scout circling from West coast counter-clockwise.

Worker works rice, then cows, then unforested hills.

Warriors - settler at cap, as of now.