Moonsinger's Deity games

podraza

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I've never seen Hall of Famer Moonsinger appear in this forum, maybe he will now. But I want to talk about his games with the rest of you.

Moonsinger won a conquest victory on deity, huge map, with 18 (or whatever) civs. And he did it in 900 BC. This is the highest scoring game in the HOF, I am pretty sure. Two points to mention, he had barbarians turned off and the map was terra, putting the opponents in closer range.

I loaded up the file to take a look at it. While I can't figure out exactly what he did, turn by turn, I can see a few interesting things. First, bronzeworking and pottery were his most advanced techs at the time of victory in 900 BC. He was in the process of researching ironworking.

His army consists solely of Quecha, Axmen, and Spearmen. He never built anything else, he never had the technology to.

He built 4 settlers, but never built even a single worker. Every worker was stolen. He razed almost every city he captured except one or two, because his empire at game's end consisted of about 6 or 7 cities, most of which he appears to have settled himself.

He never built any building other than barracks and obelisks.

That's what I can tell from his game file. So....

I've seen deity beating guides on the forum before, but the ones I read always involved a duel sized map, never anything like a Huge map before. A player who can copy those strategies and win a deity game with a Quecha rush on a duel sized map is generally not considered to be a true Deity level player and the strategy is generally regarded to be little more than a gimmick.

Would we say the same thing about what Moonsinger has done here? Is Moonsinger following a strategy that is well known for achieving victory on Deity? Or is he really just that good?

And if he is just that good, anybody have any idea what he's doing, turn by turn?
 
ask moonsinger
It's a "she", if my informations are correct, and she gave some very surprising answers to "simple" questions such as "how many turns before settling the capital".
IMHO the hall of fame games are in some ways like the challenges. Not really like a normal game. More about extreme strategies.

But you're right about this one.
Building nothing but military right from the start is only possible for incas.
And the turning off the barbs (which is allowed for hall of fame) makes it possible to focus on your targets.
This is like a giant version of the queshua rush you already know.

I still think this is true mastery : she sets a goal and does everything to do it right. Anyone still thinking finishing early isn't a great show of skill?
 
Moonsinger posted a deity guide before that involved "the perpetual anarchy" exploit to keep the units from going on strike, but since that loophole has been close, her new strategy is have 5-6 cities, and raze the rest. I am guessing the workers would be used to chop out armies, while some devoted to land improvements. With the map of huge on terra, the AIs would be all crammed together (more like a standard sized map), and easier to reach. I would be interested in trying it this setting myself, and see if I can obtain similar results.

A request to Moonsinger: Could you do a standard/pangaee deity game using a civ with late game UU, such as the Americans or the Germans?
 
Where are these publishings by Moonsinger? I will go hunt them down now, but if anybody wants to provide a link, I'd be most appreciative.

EDIT - nevermind, I found them.
 
I've beaten immortal on natural settings, continants, huge map, 9-12 leaders (18 makes it too easy) a few times already, so I'm trying deity and huge map, "that which is not meant to be won". And I failed everytime. The AI outnumbers my military so massively that my axeman get eaten alive by SPEARS, and Taoism in 900BC is not funny either. And unless I get some help, I'll concede against the AI and stick with human players.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/102640/deityscrewed.Civ4SavedGame

BTW, Moonsinger's Civ skill is more important than the gender.
 
Tonight I will investigate the rest of Moonsinger's HOF Deity wins. If I remember correctly, she has won Deity games with all or most of the win conditions, not just conquest.

I'm not really looking for any gimmicky ways to win on high levels, but I am seeking out the very best players to learn from. Moonsinger is among them? I'd love to see somebody do with Deity what Acidsartyr is (was) doing with Immortal.
 
podraza said:
Tonight I will investigate the rest of Moonsinger's HOF Deity wins. If I remember correctly, she has won Deity games with all or most of the win conditions, not just conquest.

I'm not really looking for any gimmicky ways to win on high levels, but I am seeking out the very best players to learn from. Moonsinger is among them? I'd love to see somebody do with Deity what Acidsartyr is (was) doing with Immortal.

sure moonsigner is amongst the very best
very creative indeed
 
podraza said:
...is generally not considered to be a true Deity level player and the strategy is generally regarded to be little more than a gimmick.

Would we say the same thing about what Moonsinger has done here?
Sounds dangerously close to slander here. I'm pretty sure that the person who utterly monopolizes the high end of the HOF is pretty talanted, even gifted... Otherwise, would there not be an abundance of other names mixed in using similar strats?

Regarding Moonsinger, she's made thousands of posts here, yet seems to be rather inactive as of late (pot calling kettle black, here). Having had the pleasure of conversing via posts, I had absolutely no idea who I was talking to as I hadn't ever checked the HOF before then. Extremely modest for someone who could put each and every one of us in our place...
 
Here's a hint: Most of the people posting games in the HOF (except me) can be found in the HOF Forum. We fans can go show our admiration there.

As alternatives, Lexad and bostich can be more easily reached and post very very often in the G-Minor/G-Major threads.
 
bassist2119 said:
Sounds dangerously close to slander here. I'm pretty sure that the person who utterly monopolizes the high end of the HOF is pretty talanted, even gifted... Otherwise, would there not be an abundance of other names mixed in using similar strats?

...


Why did you remove the context? In context it is pretty clear that nobody is slandering anybody. It would be libel, anyway.
 
podraza said:
Why did you remove the context? In context it is pretty clear that nobody is slandering anybody. It would be libel, anyway.
-Removed some content to reduce space. I seem to have a habit of making rediculously long posts.
-In it's original context, my interpretation (which may be wholly off) viewed it as questioning whether the party at hand posessed any skill at all or just found a neat trick and did it to death. I would view this as undermining her accomplishments, to which there may be, and should be, quite a bit of pride attached.
-I always thought that slander was written and libel was said? I may be wrong...
 
bassist2119 said:
-Removed some content to reduce space. I seem to have a habit of making rediculously long posts.
-In it's original context, my interpretation (which may be wholly off) viewed it as questioning whether the party at hand posessed any skill at all or just found a neat trick and did it to death. I would view this as undermining her accomplishments, to which there may be, and should be, quite a bit of pride attached.
-I always thought that slander was written and libel was said? I may be wrong...

All understandable.

I'm sure Moonsinger is quite good. But I was previously under the impression that Deity was not really beatable without "gimmicky" strategies and I was wondering if anybody knows how Moonsinger does it.
 
bassist2119 said:
-I always thought that slander was written and libel was said? I may be wrong...

Either way, using a message board to disparage a person's accomplishments on a computer game is neither. It is certainly in poor taste, though, and definitely bad form in the community.


I believe her games are very instructional because she discovers highly creative ways to win. I have learned much from peaking in on her accomplishments. Not everything is applicable to my gaming style, but I have deepest respect for the mind that comes up with such ingenious tactics and strategies.

One thing I have learned directly from her games and have put to good use is that the Worker is actually a strong military unit and can be used tactically against the enemy.

podraza said:
All understandable.

I'm sure Moonsinger is quite good. But I was previously under the impression that Deity was not really beatable without "gimmicky" strategies and I was wondering if anybody knows how Moonsinger does it.


She plays very aggressively and takes it to the AI like a tornado take it to trailer parks.

Also, she has the perfect Kobayashi Maru mentality.
 
I am of the firm belief that if someone can beat Immortal they can beat Deity. Except that Immortal is like playing poker with friends while Deity is like going to a casino.
 
I didn't mean to disparage Moonsinger's game. If it sounds that way, it is because I did not take care in wording the paragraph. I am interested in knowing how she achieved this, and I cannot tell completely from opening her game files.

If anybody can tell me more, that would be great. If you can't, that's fine too. No more accusations or lectures, please.
 
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