More Ships ... More Beauty ... More Flavour [IMPLEMENTED]

[historix69]

Just some notes :
If you want to stick close to history, you should emphasize foreign intervention more ... it was the french and spanish DoW against Britain and their gold, supplies, troops and warships which won the WoI. The americans mostly did the suffering and dying, often just killing each other in kind of civil war between rebels, loyalists, neutrals, natives and slaves or dying from hunger, cold and diseases.

AfaIk the continental navy only had some sloops and small frigates supported by american privateers. With the World War against France and Spain, the british had to divide their fleets worldwide and they went for more valuable targets like caribbean sugar islands. They also had to defend their colonies / outposts in Spain (Gibraltar, Menorca), in the west indies and in India and even the british homeland against attacks by French and Spanish.

So a game mechanic might be that the player negotiates with other european powers and convinces them to join the war with 2 effects :
- draw royal naval and army strength to other parts of the world, reducing the number of ships and troops the king can use in WoI against the player and
- adding AI led fleets of major warships engaging the Royal Fleet in colonial waters supporting the player and interrupting royal military actions like landing troops.

If you want to have more specialized ships, you don't necessarily have to add more types of ships but can also just use the promotion system.

 

[Joij21]

And since Human player would not get access to it, it would be effort without gameplay benefit to add more.

I mean the player can get access to Man-O-Wars through rare events, so it's not like they couldn't get these ships in the same way.

Besides I think giving the Royal Navy faster ships would make the King a powerful near unstoppable force compared to the base game.

 

[raystuttgart]

Currently the King has one single Ship.
So let us start with expanding it to 3 - each being specialized on a role.

After that we will see what happens in the future.

Considering Ships for the Player I am open for any good suggestions.
But they need to make sense for diversification / deepening of gameplay - not just purely cosmetical.

My goal would be someting like this:

2 more specialized Transport Ships e.g.

• slow Slave Ship only able to transport Goods and Slaves (allowed to sail to Port Royal as well)
• a small but fast Ship to scout and trade with Natives (only able to transport Goods)

2 more specialized Combat Ships e.g.

• one to board other Ships (higher chances of capturing another Ship)
• one to transport Troops (good defender, weak attacker)

----

So in total:

• 2 more King Ships (Royal Galleon, Royal Frigate)
• 2 more Player Transport Ships (Slave Ship, Native Trader Ship)
  
• 2 more Player Combat Ships (Boarding Ship, Troop Transport)

----

What I can do depends on the graphics I get.

 

[raystuttgart]

a small but fast Ship to scout and trade with Natives (only able to transport Goods)

For this I might use one of the Ships from here.
(My favourite is the Bottom Left)

@MightyToad

Do the ships in that package have combat animations?
(Otherwise I can not use them.)

What kind of ships are they?
(Especially Top Left and Bottom Left)

 

[raystuttgart]

These here I like as well.
(Need to see, which of those have animations though. )

Edit:
Ok, just saw the post of @Schmiddie, that they were not working in Civ4Col.
Will try myself, but if he could not make them work, I probably can not do it either.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/sailing-ships-pack-v3.28384/

Naval Cutter v2.0
I forgot to fix the jumpy sail thing on the previous Naval Cutter. I decided to give it a total make over. The two cannons in front are called "bow chasers". They would have been long guns with much greater range than the ones in the main battery. They aren't rigged, and are non functional in game. This one is my favorite.

Naval Brig:
Unlike most of the "Sloops of War", this one was a purpose built warship from the keel up. Rather than a repurposed civilian ship that was impressed into duty. The model is based on the mighty USS Niagara. Who famously defeated the useless British on the great lakes (with ease).

Armed Lugger:
This is a typical lugger that were common place in European waters. The lugger rig is similar to the ancient lanteen rig, but with square sails. They are called luggers because one "lugs" the sails up. Armed with cannons they could be hired out as privateers, or go into business for themselves. Most of traditional sails were red, orange-red, ocher (I'm not sure what color really). In game they look more like pink unfortunately.

Armed Ketch:
On the other side of the Atlantic Bermuda sloops were in style. Schooners were the most popular rig initially, but the Ketch was popular as well. This one isn't based on any ship in particular, but the idea was to make it look like it was made out of Bermuda cedar with a Bermuda rig. The main difference between a schooner and a ketch is the ketch's aft mast is shorter than the front. Also, the main stay sail is as big as the main sail.

Barque(bark):
This is the vanilla whale boat with the offending whaling paraphernalia removed. I was just going to use the sailing rig already on it. Slap some cannons on the deck and call it a day. But the rig was just trash, and luckily I already had a Brig rig ready to go. Swiped the gaff topsail rig off the schooner, and you have yourself a barque rig. This is just a cargo ship. A more modern flavor for the galleon I think.

Civ5 Frigate:
Yep, a frigate. Definitely an improvement on the vanilla frigate. This one weighs in at 740k. Original one is a couple MBs. Since the rig is nearly identical to the vanilla I went ahead and rigged the sails and damage bones up. The sails blow out slightly too much, but it isn't obnoxious like on the Cutter.

 

[MightyToad]

Do the ships in that package have combat animations?

I'm going to reissue these ships. They don't work in Colonization because they use the "TCiv4MechNonShader". I've since stopped using it after Schmiddie brought that issue with colonization to my attention. All you have to do is add a skin partition, and use the "TCiv4MechShader".

I'm working on a USS Constitution model right now. After that I will bundle it with the naval cutter, naval brig (USS Niagara), Schooner (USS America), and perhaps re do the gunboat entirely. I think that leaves a transport, and SOTL slots empty.

 

[raystuttgart]

I really like the "Civ5 Frigate".

The others are also pretty cool.
But the "Civ5 Frigate is my favourite and I would like to us it as "Royal Frigate".

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The "Barque" I like as well.

It could be a pretty nice graphic for a "Slave Barque".
Being specialized in transporting Slaves from Africa.

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The "Naval Brig" looks nice.

It could become the "Troop Transport" I wrote about.
Unless there is a better option for such a ship.

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The "Naval Cutter v2.0" is also cool.

It could become the "Scout - trading with Natives".
Would fit very nicely in that role.

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The "Armed Lugger" would be cool if the sails were not that strange colour.
(Alternatively the "Armed Ketch" would work as well.)

It looks like the perfect "Boarding Ship" capturing other ships.
It has that "pirate style" already.

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Well, it will depend on which of those ships will work.
(The Combat Animations, Fortify / Heal Animation, ... should really work ingame.)

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If we could get these working in Civ4Col it would be awesome.

Those are the ship graphics we currently have in WTP.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Schmiddie

Why did we never use these?
(Or do I just do not see them correctly in the image here.)

Link for download: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=23065

Here ist the link for download: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=23095

 

[raystuttgart]

Here is also an image of a Holk.
(Found in Civ4BTS Download section here.)

It is not as high quality as the images above.
But it is fully anmiated as it seems.

 

[raystuttgart]

I will also check again what @Vaeringjar created.
(Although I know that some of that graphics also have issues in animations.)

 

[MightyToad]

I don't have civ4col. It may be helpful if I can see one of the "vanilla" ships like the frigate to inspect. It's interesting you mention the "heal" animation. That isn't used in BTS, but included with all the units. So, if you could upload one here (including the animations) that would be sweet.

All the ships I've made are rigged. At least the important parts like hull, guns, and masts. I'm curious if the damage states work the same in civ4col.

 

[CptBadger]

Currently the King has one single Ship.
So let us start with expanding it to 3 - each being specialized on a role.

After that we will see what happens in the future.

Considering Ships for the Player I am open for any good suggestions.
But they need to make sense for diversification / deepening of gameplay - not just purely cosmetical.

My goal would be someting like this:

2 more specialized Transport Ships e.g.

• slow Slave Ship only able to transport Goods and Slaves (allowed to sail to Port Royal as well)
• a small but fast Ship to scout and trade with Natives (only able to transport Goods)

2 more specialized Combat Ships e.g.

• one to board other Ships (higher chances of capturing another Ship)
• one to transport Troops (good defender, weak attacker)

----

So in total:

• 2 more King Ships (Royal Galleon, Royal Frigate)
• 2 more Player Transport Ships (Slave Ship, Native Trader Ship)
  
• 2 more Player Combat Ships (Boarding Ship, Troop Transport)

----

What I can do depends on the graphics I get.

My suggestions on those 4 categories,

Slave Barque
Caravel really fits(or should fit) this role, but a pinnacle, chasse Marie, Galiot, or any other small light trader could do. (Side note, could add buying slaves as a trade option. Not in high probability but a lower chance)
Brig or sloop-of-war could fit this role. And I'd like to if possible let it have an effect in stacked fleet actions. If grouped with SotL or whatever, the attack carries increase chance of capture. But probably less than direct attack by the boarding ship itself.
War Galleon. Not going to chase down a ship, but troop transport and not to be attacked lightly

 

[CptBadger]

And regarding royal ships, I'm off split opinion. I get and agree with rays point of the royal frigate can do the anti piracy light patrol functions, but I also wish for the flavor of gunboats and schooners all over, since numerically speaking there were far more of those than frigates or bigger. Naval warfare from the colonial side was much of asymmetrical warfare, battles of opportunity. WoI US had small frigates, assorted brigs or refitted trade vessels set up for piracy. They hunted gunboats and schooners, often moving in small packs and hoped to come across british transports escorted by schooners and gunboats, maybe a single smaller frigate, and engage. If a large warship appeared, they'd scatter.

Having the three types makes perfect sense for the King AI. And the creation of transports and frigates allows the colony to at least have a chance to sink something. So I feel this is a great start, especially in tandem with the promotion and combat overhauls.

 

[raystuttgart]

I don't have civ4col.

Shame on you.

Seriously, it is a pretty good game.
But of course only with WTP.

Maybe wait until it is on sale again and then get it.
(It is regularly available for about 6 to 8 $ in Steam or Gog sales)

 

[raystuttgart]

It may be helpful if I can see one of the "vanilla" ships like the frigate to inspect.

I will attach it in this thread for you this evening.

It's interesting you mention the "heal" animation. That isn't used in BTS, but included with all the units.
So, if you could upload one here (including the animations) that would be sweet.

Sure will do as well.

I'm curious if the damage states work the same in civ4col.

Since I am not a graphical modder I do not know such details.

----

By the way:
@Schmiddie is the most experienced modder considering Civ4Col Units.
@Moandor is currently also digging into these things.

 

[CptBadger]

Shame on you.

Seriously, it is a pretty good game.
But of course only with WTP.

Maybe wait until it is on sale again and then get it.
(It is regularly available for about 6 to 8 $ in Steam or Gog sales)

Hell I think I have an extra hard copy laying around, if covering shipping is cheaper than steam version

 

[raystuttgart]

@MightyToad

As requested I uploaded the following:

• Frigate (Vanilla to check base animations)
• Caravella Redonda (with Heal animation)

Small comment:
As far as I know the "Heal" and "Fortify" animations are often almost the same.
(So some ships do not have a "Heal" animation of their own but just use the "Fortify".)

But again:
I am not experienced in these things - I know only very basic stuff about 3D Unit graphics.
You would need to discuss such details with modders like @Schmiddie or @Willi_Tell or maybe @Kathy

 

[MightyToad]

As requested I uploaded the following

Thanks! questions answered. The only real difference is the civ4col use a skin partition for everything it seems. I suspect Civ4 vanilla originally didn't do this to save on the file sizes to accommodate dinosaur computers. The kfm also lacks the Xfadein/Xfadeout. Which aren't used in BTS either. Also, the "<Variation>" integers are different. I still have no clue what those do. They also don't use a heal animation. So, no worries there. They should be compatible with BTS animations.

I actually already had the "caravela" from the EE2 ship pack. Refar/Walter Hawkwood did a flawless job on those.

As for getting the game.... Maybe someday. I'm afraid it will be one of those things where you play 50 turns then uninstall. If I'm being candid I mostly make things for myself or BTS. But having them compatible with civ4col isn't a lot to ask or difficult.

 

[historix69]

Naval Warfare would become more challenging with more military logistics and supplies. In WoI the rebels had to import guns and ammo from europe (or european colonies) while the british troops had to bring most or all the supplies and replacements from england which caused a huge naval traffic which was vulnerable to privateer attacks. In civ4col there is no such thing as supplies or logistics, so e.g. naval blockades have less impact than in real life. Civ4col units have unlimited ammo and food and heal on their own back to full strength in a few turns.

 

[modmod]

In civ4col there is no such thing as supplies or logistics

This is not the game where those can fit in nicely.
Even in games where something like that exist are do it in a simplified manner like units refill in cities/ ports.

Example