most important tech in civ 4

[Joshua368]

I want to see someone play a game without researching the Wheel. That would be so interesting...

The Wheel is required for Pottery, which is required for Metal Casting, which is required for Machinery, which is required for Engineering, Guilds, Optics, Printing Press, which are required for Banking, Astronomy, Chemistry, Replaceable Parts, Economics, Corporation, Steel, Scientific Method... and so on and so on and so on.

 

[Matthew5117]

I didn't tell you it would be easy...

 

[Flying Pig]

I have heard the wheel described by Jacob Brownski as the reason why the Old World conquered the New and not the other way around. I supose the Aztecs managed it (according to the Ascent of Man, they only used it as a toy)

 

[Skallagrimson]

Diplomacy is why the old world conquered the new. Without it Pizarro and Cortez would be chopped up bits of meat on sacrificial altars, and the English wouldn't have debarked from their ship onto Plymout Rock, alive. And without new world colonies the old world wouldn't have had an Industrial Revolution (no textile mills, no cotton fields, no cheap oil, no cheap coal, etc.) To this day England would be swarming with musketeers fighting over royal succession, and the Navajo would have caught up to that level at least.

 

[Joshua368]

I think disease was a major cause as well. Millions of native americans died from foreign diseases, that certainly didn't help their chances.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Sometimes the diseases weren't brought by the Europeans. The Plymouth Rock colonists encountered natives who had already been decimated by a plague that hit before they ever encountered white people. This paved the way for diplomacy and an alliance rather than a violent struggle over land.

 

[DroopyTofu]

Diplomacy is why the old world conquered the new. Without it Pizarro and Cortez would be chopped up bits of meat on sacrificial altars, and the English wouldn't have debarked from their ship onto Plymout Rock, alive. And without new world colonies the old world wouldn't have had an Industrial Revolution (no textile mills, no cotton fields, no cheap oil, no cheap coal, etc.) To this day England would be swarming with musketeers fighting over royal succession, and the Navajo would have caught up to that level at least.

Yes, but, you need stuff like writing (open borders), alphabet (tech trade), currency (gold trade) to conduct diplomacy, which all require pottery, which requires the wheel.
(BTW, most of the industrial age techs require things that eventually go back to THe Wheel)

 

[bestbrian]

Yes, but, you need stuff like writing (open borders), alphabet (tech trade), currency (gold trade) to conduct diplomacy, which all require pottery, which requires the wheel.
(BTW, most of the industrial age techs require things that eventually go back to THe Wheel)

And those wheels and axles need to be made out of wood, preferably by slave labor. Now what tech would allow you to do that?

 

[Fetch]

How about the wheel? Can't get resources unless riverside without it. No resources = very no metal for good units.

 

[Airefuego]

Not wanting to get too tangential to the thread but...

Diplomacy is why the old world conquered the new. Without it Pizarro and Cortez would be chopped up bits of meat on sacrificial altars, and the English wouldn't have debarked from their ship onto Plymout Rock, alive. And without new world colonies the old world wouldn't have had an Industrial Revolution (no textile mills, no cotton fields, no cheap oil, no cheap coal, etc.) To this day England would be swarming with musketeers fighting over royal succession, and the Navajo would have caught up to that level at least.

I don't think so... old world diplomacy consisted largely of "convert and/or submit, or be killed!"

The IMMEDIATE reasons the old world conquerors were successful was mostly their superior technology, plus also the killer diseases they happened to bring with them. They weren't diplomatic. I agree they were extremely cunning though.

But WHY the Europeans had better techs and diseases is the interesting question. Here's a clue: it's not because they were innately smarter or more evolved or anything like that...

For an excellent and fairly convincing discussion of these issues, there is a pretty good book called Guns, Germs and Steel, by Jared Diamond, which talks about all of this (and not incidentally, really feeds your Civ addiction BECAUSE IT'S BASICALLY ALL ABOUT CIV! Awesome )

 

[Joshua368]

How about the wheel? Can't get resources unless riverside without it. No resources = very no metal for good units.

Well all the native american civs have resourceless UUs, so they don't need to hook up metal.

 

[Abegweit]

The Plymouth Rock colonists encountered natives who had already been decimated by a plague that hit before they ever encountered white people. This paved the way for diplomacy and an alliance rather than a violent struggle over land.

Yeah. But that happened more than a hundred years after Europeans landed in the New World. The "natives" did not have to have met anyone. Diseases spread on their own.

 

[bestbrian]

Gunpowder and disease should not be understated, but diplomacy was Cortez' main weapon. He made allies of all the disaffected tribes and factions and united them against the Aztecs. His conquest was successful on many levels, and brilliantly implemented; to chalk it up only to "Guns, Germs, and Steel" belittles his accomplishments.

 

[IAM]

"Guns, Germs, and Steel" is a good read and I think a pretty fair assesment. If you haven't read it then don't judge a book by...

 

[bestbrian]

"Guns, Germs, and Steel" is a good read and I think a pretty fair assesment. If you haven't read it then don't judge a book by...

I did read it, and as a matter of fact, in 1991 I had an article published with the exact same title, but narrowly focused on the Spanish conquest of Hispaniola and Cuba. Shame on me for not following through on the extended conclusion.

 

[lukasbradley]

I'm going to put a vote in for Construction.

I agree. Bronze Working is very important early, Construction is next.

 

[DMOC]

No tech is the most important.

~DMOC

 

[JonathanStrange]

Don't make me choose one
~JStrange

[it'd be an early one ('cause to get the late ones, you need to survive), it'd be one almost universally needed early ('cause fishing is cool and all 'cept in the desert), it'd be directly useful for economy and military ('cause you got to get the best bang for the buck, esp. in the ancient days), it'd be one that most won't trade or give you unless they're so far ahead of you it ain't funny (if you can't buy it, you gotta research it) so I'd choose Bronze Working. ]

Or maybe fire.

Or maybe ....