ParkCungHee
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2006
- Messages
- 12,921
How come no ones mentioned the Nebraska Navy? 
Most powerful Navy's in the world today?
- Thread starter steveedster
- Start date
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Didn't you get the memo? It just got destroyed in a Pearl Harbor-style attack by the Imperial Navy of the Emirate of Bitumen.
As for the "sub advantage", the PLAN has a large number of them, true. However, out of these, the Romeo-, Ming- and Han- class ships are all described as "noisy" ; which essentialy make them worthless as submarines in this age of guided torpedoes.
In the final tally, it leaves China with 12 very good ships (the Kilo-class boats), another 15 or so pretty decent ones (the Song-, Yuan- and Type 093 boats), and a lot of useless junks.
Comparatively, Japan has 17 very good ships (Oyashio- and Harushio- boats, the older being at least comparable with a Kilo, and the newer (the 10 Oyashio) being strictly better.)
As for the "sub advantage", the PLAN has a large number of them, true. However, out of these, the Romeo-, Ming- and Han- class ships are all described as "noisy" ; which essentialy make them worthless as submarines in this age of guided torpedoes.
In the final tally, it leaves China with 12 very good ships (the Kilo-class boats), another 15 or so pretty decent ones (the Song-, Yuan- and Type 093 boats), and a lot of useless junks.
Comparatively, Japan has 17 very good ships (Oyashio- and Harushio- boats, the older being at least comparable with a Kilo, and the newer (the 10 Oyashio) being strictly better.)
How come no ones mentioned the Nebraska Navy?
Because Switzerland's navy could pulverize it.
P.S. - The USS Nebraska, though, is a ballistic missile submarine, so by nakesake rights, it's one mighty naval State.
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
Britain has the biggest and best navy, but it is invisible, so you can't see it 
Seriously however, Britain is in a bad place atm as regards our navy, but thankfully we are starting to build new and rather cool ships so we can project power at idiots that try to provoke us.
Seriously however, Britain is in a bad place atm as regards our navy, but thankfully we are starting to build new and rather cool ships so we can project power at idiots that try to provoke us.
The Exxon Navy is pretty powerful. You can never really tell how much destruction one of their ships will cause when it gets near your coast.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
While good for a laugh, that's very much true.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
That's a good point. Exxon has lots of power projection capacity.
Especially against penguins, ducks and whales.
Especially against penguins, ducks and whales.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
I think we all remember the thread about stingrays taking over the world, right? Exxon is teh way of the future, man!
No. ASW aircraft like the carrier-borne S-3, and NAS-based P-3 are not to be underestimated. They'll hunt down your sub, and kill it lickity-split.
The S-3, in particular, is what I call a 'sleeper'. Looking at it and watching it (slowly) fly, you really have no idea just how much of a bad-@ss aircraft it really is.
EA-6 (also carrier based) is another 'sleeper', IMO. The true jamming capability (range/area) of that thing is pretty impressive.
But anyway, it's not so easy for a sub to 'take out' a supercarrier, a la WWII. That angle, has already been well thought out, and covered.
The sub will never get in range... it can't keep up with the speed of aircraft. And it WILL be detected - early, due to the advancements in sensory tech. Being underwater ain't what it used to be, in terms of an advantage in a naval battle/engagement. But even over 60 years ago, it wasn't much of an 'advantage', when fighting surface ships that could actually fire back (e.g. the nearly 80% casualty rate of German U-boats in WWII).
Nowadays, they're best used as a hidden ICBM platform, hiding deep in unknown waters, waiting for Armageddon. Making an attack run against a U.S. carrier group would be pure suicide.
Pasi Nurminen
Deity
Detecting a submarine would not be a sure thing. If the sub has a decent skipper, it could deftly evade detection. As long as it is in proper position beforehand there's no need to travel quickly. It's not easy, but it's certainly not "pure suicide."
Remind me of this articles
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061113-121539-3317r.htm
The electric motor driven sub are now very very quiet and some of them have material absorbing pings from active sonar. Most of the sub can quietly "sink" to the bottom of the ocean and wait for the "prey" to be appear on its range while silently listening to enemy movement. If they want to be suicidial, they can fire all the missiles and torpedoes and make a run for it. Couple with an air assault, they can cause major disruption to a carrier group.
I bet I could out-dribble and get by Shaquille O'Neal if I surprised him right as he was getting off the bus. I would not be so successful if I tried it on the court, during a game.
"Man with basketball runs right through Shaq, as he disembarks the bus!"
Oh God, that's bad@ss, let me save that link to favorites. I always knew Shaq was a farce. Mwahaha...
Pasi Nurminen
Deity
The analogy is flawed, because Shaq could see you fully and there would be no way to sneak up on him. Now, turn off every light in the arena and make no noise as you creep towards him, then you'd certainly stand a chance.
I bet I could out-dribble and get by Shaquille O'Neal if I surprised him right as he was getting off the bus. I would not be so successful if I tried it on the court, during a game.
"Man with basketball runs right through Shaq, as he disembarks the bus!"
Oh God, that's bad@ss, let me save that link to favorites. I always knew Shaq was a farce. Mwahaha...
Thats the attitude man, which what the Chinese will want. Be complacent and ignorant.
but right now, i think the USA navy are trying all methods to avoid such scenarios again.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
US, Japan, Russia, France, UK
No way does China get top 5 anytime soon
No way does China get top 5 anytime soon
A sneak attack when their guard is down, and their alert level is low is not going to be so easy (read: exponentially more difficult) during an actual conflict, where potential engagement is expected. That shouldn't be hard hard to understand, even if you can't read into analogies.
That SSN that crashed into the Japanese fishingboat a few years ago S of Hawaii when making a rapid ascent - that's the same kind of crap (another example) that wouldn't happen, when you increase the 'pucker factor'.
I'm not saying it's invincible, or that anything is impossible - I just say present company is vastly underestimating a CVN group's ASW screening & destroying capability, especially when it's running at higher levels of alert.
That SSN that crashed into the Japanese fishingboat a few years ago S of Hawaii when making a rapid ascent - that's the same kind of crap (another example) that wouldn't happen, when you increase the 'pucker factor'.
I'm not saying it's invincible, or that anything is impossible - I just say present company is vastly underestimating a CVN group's ASW screening & destroying capability, especially when it's running at higher levels of alert.
Pasi Nurminen
Deity
And you're vastly underestimating submarines and their captains, especially when they're rigged for a silent running.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
And you vastly overestimate most submarines's wartime capacities.
China's submarines, even the Kilo, still aren't even close to matching the capacities a Japanesse Oyashio or an American Sea Wolf or Virginia.
China's submarines, even the Kilo, still aren't even close to matching the capacities a Japanesse Oyashio or an American Sea Wolf or Virginia.
Pasi Nurminen
Deity
I didn't say anything about China's submarines. I was speaking of submarines in general.
Of course, you display a fundamental misunderstanding of submarine warfare. It's not like radar where you detect whether something's there or not, if the object in question is emitting no sound, it's exceedingly difficult to detect. All a Chinese sub skipper would have to do is ensure his vessel remains silent, something even older submarines are capable of, and he'd stand a good chance of being able to get into firing position.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Pasi, the older Chinesse subs are *DEFINED* as noisy. It's the very core of their reputation. They would have to be incredibly lucky to put themselves in the right position long ahead of time, and hope the carriers won't change direction at the wrong time.
Similar threads
