Most underrated civ

[Silverfuturist]

Frequently with Venice you have to move your initial Settler quite a bit to snuggle up next to a future Puppet-buddy to build strongly. Venice wants to go to the seas, and thus can be blockaded pretty brutally with outmoded, throwaway units, but it works pretty well overland also.

It would be nice if you could attach a unit to a Trade Caravan/Ship so that they had some defense though.

It also would be nice if you could set the path of a trade route as well. This might include having the trade route take a longer, but also safer path. Perhaps the balance would be 1 less yield or something for making the trade route no the most efficient route.

But this is a tangent of course to the discussion on the strength of Venice. To give Venice a boost, I think that great merchants should not increase the cost of other great people. Or even do something more extreme, such as while Venice cannot build settlers it can buy them!

 

[Js_9001]

I was more talking about single player since I don't do multiplayer. The problem with buffing them for MP would be it would make them even more OP for single player.

 

[orasis]

Polynesia.

The map is yours from the first turn. Your early fighters scare off your enemies and Moai's generate constant culture. You keep the +1 sight and gain a combat bonus when you're near a Moai.

Very underrated.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

First -- I've moved from Deity back to Immmortal recently and was feeling a little guilty about it, but not any more! Unless you've got an OP Civ, it really is a matter of you MUST have a good start, be able to steal a worker, get NC by turn 90, give up on having a culture victory that isn't just a science victory, etc. Glad to have confirmation on that. Deity was just not fun any more, having to play the exact same way every time.

BUT ...

A wise earlier poster said it best, that what makes a Civ interesting is when it allows you to do something you wouldn't otherwise do, break from the usual pattern. So, Polynesia gets my vote. It's just damned fun playing Archipelago or Tiny Islands and finding a spot to build up a 30-culture Moai city that gets the extra food it needs to grow from cargo ships. Plus, that early ocean-crossing means you have first crack at a ton of ruins on maps like that.

Any Civ that makes "First, build 4 warriors" a not-reasonable starting strategy on Deity gets my vote!

 

[Silverfuturist]

I was more talking about single player since I don't do multiplayer. The problem with buffing them for MP would be it would make them even more OP for single player.

The AI is so dumb that any component that creates tactical or strategic complexity is OP for the human!

 

[Silverfuturist]

" So, Polynesia gets my vote. It's just damned fun playing Archipelago or Tiny Islands and finding a spot to build up a 30-culture Moai city that gets the extra food it needs to grow from cargo ships. Plus, that early ocean-crossing means you have first crack at a ton of ruins on maps like that.

On tiny islands map with Polynesia I got 24 ruins once and it as on deity! Build order: scout scout scout scout... can't remember if I went with a 5th scout or stopped at 4.

Imagine, if, somehow Polynesia could get its hands on some pathfinders... this has never happened to me, but has anybody ever friended a military CS early and got a pathfinder from the CS?

 

[Arachnofiend]

Militaristic CS's never give ancient era UU's, so not possible, sorry.

 

[holywar]

The Netherlands

 

[Tabarnak]

In the NQ multiplayer group, when players go random and somebody rolls Venice, they have the option of requesting a restart. Venice really is that bad when you are a human playing against intelligent humans. The top players in NQ play a LOT of civ, and on their blog they have horror stories of how easily Venice is neutered and helpless against good human players. The inability to have any map control, plus the extra trade routes that cannot be defended combine for a very unfun MP experience against good competition.

I got a few games running well with Venice but you need 2 or 3 close cs to stay at a good pace. Can build quite a large army of CBs though...really depends of land and neighbors around. Sometimes you can't do anything good.

 

[rattlejaw]

I think Portugal is probably just shy of the top tier, but I'm not sure that's a secret. The huge gold income and a nice (global!) happiness boost from free luxuries can help with any victory type, and they look good on the map!

Brazil might be underrated too. It's true that their primary bonuses apply to what is probably the most difficult victory to pull off on higher difficulties, but they apply in a way that's actually compatible with Immortal/Deity. Tile tourism is a safer bet than wonder tourism, and Brazilwood Camps do a lot of work, particularly if you're able to snag and keep Sacred Path. You do have to work through a horrible start, but that horrible start often means that you're not going to be subject to immediate aggression. If you don't have jungle, it's not the end of the world--you can still play the culture game with faith-bought Engineers and massive music bombs. Definitely not amazing, but nobody's better at brute forcing a culture win.

 

[SideScroller]

I would say Indonesia. Except for on a Pangaea map. Being able to drop a Settler off-continent wherever you want and at least Happiness-neutral is powerful. Their Kris Swordsmen are goofy though.

homgosh :3 the Kriss can be incredible if you roll Honor Tree on marathon. Invulnerability? WOW! Just steamrolled Huge Terra with a few warriors who made it up to longsword at the end.

 

[SideScroller]

I'm very surprised to find out that people dont like Songhai. You make so much money from barbarians its silly, and their aquatic abilities are very useful, especially considering how bad the AI is at fighting, abuse those rivers!

And the Iroquois! Erg mohawks are terrifying. Although revealing iron at bronzeworking has reduced their usefulness because their main advantage imo is that they dont require Iron, letting you field them ages before anything is capable of killing them. But still, you can upgrade your warriors who should by all means be at least lvl 4 or 5 or so, the very turn you unlock ironworking, and thats huge. You'll win so many battles that the xp accrued will essentially make them invincible. I play marathon though, so these bonuses are more effective for that, more xp, more lasting UU, etc

It seems Honor suited civs are getting no love these days D:

 

[Væringjar]

Songhai, I guess. Their UA is quite good actually. Also, their UU don't have penalty when attacking cities.

 

[Petiscator]

I'd say Russia and Denmark, but there are many underrated civs.

Russian UA is awesome - sell the strategics to buy settlers so you don't lose happiness on the deal, also, early production is extremely useful to starting up a city, extra horses means later extra cossacks, double the amount of nukes. The Cossacks are very good IMO, because their ability is not the same as Charge, so you can get Charge I and Charge II on them, meaning +100% combat strenght against wounded units. Also, they upgrade to Ladships, so, if you went Autocracy and picked Lighting Warfare, you've gotten some empire rapists. Then, there's the Krepost, which isn't that good, but makes it easier for you to access the strategics (which means earlier production).

Regarding Denmark, most of you have said what I think already, but there is one more thing: lakes. Even on a Pangea map, you can abuse Viking Fury during your coastal rushes, but you can also do it on lakes. It isn't hard to find a few lakes on a Pangaea map, so you can embark a unit or two and have it get a ridiculous amount of movement once it swims out of their pool. Even on the middle of a continent, their UA can be useful. I also didn't know about the Berserker being available earlier! I enjoy a lot playing Denmark, and I have to say it makes me glad most people dislike it. That way, they pressure Firaxis to keep ading bonuses to them, such as an earlier Berserker! Please keep the toys coming.

 

[Væringjar]

Russia? underrated?

I don't think that they are underrated. They are one of most powerful civ in the game, IMHO.

 

[Memoryjar]

India.

 

[tommynt]

Militaristic CS's never give ancient era UU's, so not possible, sorry.

they DO give warriors and archers - but no scouts and therefore no pathfinders i guess.

But then - who knows .. most (all?) CS are connected to some civ/uu - so if there is a shoshone CS it d have to be one of the few new ones.

actually i do think that ALL civs are overrated - there is not a sinlge civ which d allow you to win in situations other civs d not and no civ which boni are better as good land.
Even when Poland shines ahead by a lot it doesnt shave finish times by much more as 10-15 turns compared to other (bad) civs.

if there is a underrated civ its maya, espacially when people compare it to civs like korea or babs.

 

[Væringjar]

They also give Spearman, which is Ancient Era Unit.

 

[Petiscator]

I think they meant that the CS don't give ancient era UUs, like the Jaguar or the Slinger.

 

[Optional]

That is correct, Arachnofriend also said it right, speaking of unique Ancient Era units.
The rule is that CS's cannot give you unique units that belong to the same era as in which you started the game.

Songhai... I thought they were widely recognised as rather good, who was thinking differently?