Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by blaugh, Aug 16, 2006.
Scouts do that job just as well, and they are cheaper.
As I pointed out before, 2 2/3 scouts do the job of medic better than 1 explorer. "2 moves on any terrain" doesn't do much good for a medic unit, since medics are generally following other units that don't get 2 moves on all terrain.
Convinced? If not, read all the other arguments in this thread!
what about scouts? (2 moves on any terrain? are you drunk? you start with guerilla I and woodsman I AFAIK, you need 5 XP to have the woodsman II and guerilla II)
edit : too slow
You don't need guerilla or woodsman for explorers, they already treat any terrain the same way. And fast movement for medics in enemy terrain is just about the best you can wish for.
The warrior. The most useless unit ever because you usually get bronzeworking in the very beginning of the game, which lets you have spearmen. Also the musketeer.
Why? Seriously, I can't think of any time when I thought 'if only my medic could move 2 on hills or forests!', very minor planning (have a medic or two start off with each stack) means that you won't end up with a medic on the other side of hills/forest from a cluster of damaged units. Plus if you didn't have explorers, you'd have 2 2/3 scouts medics per explorer medic - easily enough to put 2 in every stack and have some left over.
Your statement is very unenlightened. Care to give details on why you have such opinions? What difficulty level are you playing on such that you can survive the early game without warriors? And the Musketeer is definitely not the least useful unit if you are worth a pinch of salt playing France.
How can people say warriors are useless? They must play with no barbarians or go into world builder and place copper in their capital. They're usually they first thing I build if I don't have hunting or a resource to improve.
yea and on those - of course - very rare occasions they save you... flexibility is always nice to have
Wouldnt say the warrior is useless. A good cheap fog buster. Stops a rush by the inca. Cheap to explore with early game. Wouldnt say spearmen were a great defending unit although as part of a larger defense maybe. Certainly with the chariots now +100% against axemen you'll need a spearman or 2 but i'll stick with axemen as my main unit to build with swordsmen closely after to stop those pesky chariots in there steps.
Anyone who says explorers are the most useless unit in the game has obviously never played a medieval or renaissance multiplayer game.
Yup, I haven't. But in what exact ways are they useful in those games?
They're useful in a few ways. Most obviously is exploring; they're not hindered by terrain and they're a cheap two move unit. If you're playing with barbarians, they're much more proficient at dispatching them than regular scouts.
In fact, they're extremely hard to kill with anything available at the start of a medieval or renaissance game, if placed on defensive terrain. Put one of those on a forest or forest hill in front of someone's city and you'll likely be able to hold it long enough to get an even stronger unit on there. They're good for skirting around your opponent's civ to see where their units and cities are, and for cutting roads early on when you intend to attack one city and your opponent only has one road between his two.
Actually in my xurrent game I think I'll be using them as stack-defenders. I don't have longbows and these things have good defense.
Ironclads are NOT useless. I was playing with my friend against multiple computer opponents. The map had two oil resources and we had neither of them. Ironclads became our only way of stopping Catherine's destroyers before we could launch assault on her continent. My friend had to sacrifice one third of his navy to kill a russian battleship(he launched a multitude of Ironclads, frigates and galleons against it). We did manage to win the game eventually. Ironclads are the best you got without oil.
Late in the game, your only enemies should be far away. The only way that I could see to use planes would be from an airport colony, or a parked carrier. Both of those, I would assume, are hard to utilize. I try to end the game militarily, or be peacefully building up culture(which I do very slowly) at that point in the game.
Never thought of that. They (scouts/explorers) also make handy escorts for stacks of workers. When moving a stack over to a choice piece of real estate, 9 times out of ten even if the workers are out of movement points the scout/explorer isn't. Simply give the scout/explorer the work command and the stack will start working next turn without further orders. Scouts are ok for protecting your workers against barbarians until you can free up a warrior or other unit, to use as 'markers' for good city locations and/or to escort your settlers to that location. In this way, I've ended many a game with at least 4 or 5 seasoned explorers in my employ.
Parking ironclads on your valuable sea resources discourages piracy nicely.
I wasn't too happy with the Celtic UU. I'll have to try them again.
"Kaylee! Find that boy that's taking a dirtnap with baby Jesus!
We need a hood ornament....and Jayne, try not to steal too much of their ****!!!
- Serenity Outtakes -
My pick is the ironclad. They're not quite versatile enough. You really have to dig to find a reason to favor them. They do look cool, though. They're kinda like the Jaguars of the seas.
I was about to jump on the dump the warrior bandwagon then I recalled the countless times they have either saved by butt or help create a early attack/choke force. This is done by upgrading them to spear and axemen. They are lot cheaper then axemen or spearmen to produce. The downside is the cost to upgrade. With tribual villages you can usual collect enough cash to upgrade 2-4 warriors fairly easily. If playing without tribual villages about 1-2 warriors can be upgraded easily by reducing research rate temporary in a crunch. Small window but can give that early advantage for the all important start.
Quite often I will produce warriors with the aim to upgrading to either spear or axemen early in the game if I get some cash. Having 2-4 warriors early in the game to upgrade as soon as you can connect either bronze or iron can turn a game. Have them positioned at the front of you culture boarders as you connect your metal resource and they have a running head start to your enemies cities.
As for explorers I rarely bother with producing them from ancient starts. They can be useful as medics. For some later era starts early on they can be useful to block workers from connecting up resources or set up sentry posts on forest hills.
I would vote for the Aztec Jaguar if unique units are also allowed for the most useless unit. They are are weakened swordmen that have defence bonus in jungle that doesnt require a resource. Very situatioal and very weak unit for the cost. Infact the explorer almost matches it against Jaguar for cost/strength and has more mobility.
By the time I've researched Iron Working I'll usualy have produced a settler to dash for the nearest metal if I didnt acquire bronze working. In a crunch I may place the settler directly on the resource and upgrade those "useless warriors" ASAP.
Separate names with a comma.